protein intake vs "meal frequency is irrelevant"

[fqqs]

first of all, i'm not trolling, just want to expand my knowledge

everyone on these forums say that meal timing is irrelevant as log as I hit all macros for a day. they say there wouldnt be any difference between eating all kcal in 1 meal or eating 5 meals a day.

but I wonder about this: as far as i know protein cannot be stored by a body,and also everyone knows that body need constant supply of protein to rebuild muscles. so if I ate all protein for a given day (200g) in the morning and then wat no protein for next 24h , wouldnt it harm my muscle gains? how long protein can be stored in a bloodstream? 24h? im not questioning anything, but just want to hear about this from someone with more knowledge

 

[pebble]

Nutrient timing is important for reasons you addressed as well as others. Meal frequency (excluding extremes - 1 vs 17) is irrelevant in term of increased metabolism.

 

[ThreeGigs]

It's not irrelevant, but 3 meals a day and something right before bed is perfectly fine for most people. It's when you want to squeeze that extra 10-20% in growth rate out that timing gets important.

Some research topics for you:
gastric emptying rate
protein absorption rate
insulin response
intermittent fasting

 

[fqqs]

I dont understand it;/ many people on this forum tell that meal timing is just irreleavnt and anyone who eats 6 meals a day can have the same wieght training results if he eats 1 meal a day. but now you are saying it isnt quite truth

 

[maxbrokeneck]

Meal timing is largely irrelevant. The more protein you have in a sitting, the longer it will take to be assimilated. There are things to take into considerations though, i.e. nutrients signaling stomach contractions, things like that. I don't think it's realistic to expect 800g casein protein on Monday to take you through the week.

 

[ThreeGigs]

I dont understand it;/ many people on this forum tell that meal timing is just irreleavnt and anyone who eats 6 meals a day can have the same wieght training results if he eats 1 meal a day. but now you are saying it isnt quite truth

1 meal a day is really sub-optimal. Food spends a limited amount of time in the nutrient absorbing parts of your intestine, and flooding it all at once just means your body doesn't have a chance to absorb everything.

Insulin triggers various GLUT* receptors on muscle cells to take up nutrients, and muscle cells tend to go anabolic for about 2 hours when nutrient levels in the blood rise. The rise is a signal, and to send another signal they have to fall again. Eat too often, and nutrient levels don't fall enough for the 'signal', don't eat often enough and you're missing out on potential signalling opportunities.

*But*, periods of fasting (like only eating two meals a day, four hours apart meaning you fast for 20 hours) leads to greater insulin sensitivity, such that your body responds better. So that tends to offset losses from 'perfect' meal timing.

It's not irrelevant, however for most people it's not worth the bother. I've probably spent upwards of 100 hours reading about biology, endocrinology, countless studies, metabolism and nutrition. And it would truly take 50,000 words and a lot of technical jargon to explain it all well enough for someone else to actually be able to use the information to gain that extra 10% to 20% edge in muscle development.

Start reading up on the 5 topics I posted above, and you'll understand. But be ready to assimilate a LOT of information.

 

[TJTJ]

 

[fqqs]

1 meal a day is really sub-optimal. Food spends a limited amount of time in the nutrient absorbing parts of your intestine, and flooding it all at once just means your body doesn't have a chance to absorb everything.

Insulin triggers various GLUT* receptors on muscle cells to take up nutrients, and muscle cells tend to go anabolic for about 2 hours when nutrient levels in the blood rise. The rise is a signal, and to send another signal they have to fall again. Eat too often, and nutrient levels don't fall enough for the 'signal', don't eat often enough and you're missing out on potential signalling opportunities.

*But*, periods of fasting (like only eating two meals a day, four hours apart meaning you fast for 20 hours) leads to greater insulin sensitivity, such that your body responds better. So that tends to offset losses from 'perfect' meal timing.

It's not irrelevant, however for most people it's not worth the bother. I've probably spent upwards of 100 hours reading about biology, endocrinology, countless studies, metabolism and nutrition. And it would truly take 50,000 words and a lot of technical jargon to explain it all well enough for someone else to actually be able to use the information to gain that extra 10% to 20% edge in muscle development.

Start reading up on the 5 topics I posted above, and you'll understand. But be ready to assimilate a LOT of information.

thanks for explanation

so as for meal timing it ALMOST doesnt matter if I eat:

7.00 - meal 1
11.00 - meal 2
15.00 - meal 3
20.00 - meal 4

or

14.00 - meal 1
18.00 - meal 2
20.00 - meal 3
22.00 - meal 4

as long as kcal are kept the same?

 

[TooOld]

I would agree with all of the above info. Also, I think macro type intake has allot more relevance than total calorie intake for most people depending on carb tolerance and on what your goals you want to achieve as insulin secretion is much more effected by macro types in controlling blood glucose levels.

 

[bigbenj]

Who are all these people saying you can eat one meal a day??? I haven't seen this "everyone" you speak of.

I don't feel like typing anymore, I'll just be repeating everyone else.

 

[ThreeGigs]

thanks for explanation

so as for meal timing it ALMOST doesnt matter if I eat:

7.00 - meal 1
11.00 - meal 2
15.00 - meal 3
20.00 - meal 4

or

14.00 - meal 1
18.00 - meal 2
20.00 - meal 3
22.00 - meal 4

as long as kcal are kept the same?

Yes, the two would be about the same, most likely. The added insulin sensitivity from fasting until 14:00 would likely offset the 2-hour meal timing. However, if you take scenario 2 and change it to 3 meals at 14:00, 17:30, and 21:00, with another snack/shake right before bed at 22:00, you'll get 3 decent 'pulses' plus the sensitivity, instead of 2 pulses and the sensitivity. So maybe 3% (a wild guess) more muscle development by having meal 2 a bit early and meal 3 a bit late. But if at 17:30 you're in the car on the way home from work, don't sweat it, because 3% is largely irrelevant.

That said, in my humble opinion there _is_ one important aspect of meal timing, and that's eating protein right before bed. A decent protein/fat meal before bed (low on carbs) will supply your body with protein over a long period while you're sleeping, and we all know we grow while we sleep. Low carbs because insulin blunts growth hormone response. Fat because fats slow gastric emptying so the meal gets processed over a longer time frame, meaning slow steady protein delivery for your growing body.

 

[ThreeGigs]

Who are all these people saying you can eat one meal a day??? I haven't seen this "everyone" you speak of.

I don't feel like typing anymore, I'll just be repeating everyone else.

Ben, there was a discussion about it in another thread awhile back, and someone linked a study abstract showing that in regular people, one 'meal' a day still resulted in a positive or neutral protein balance. But if you read the full article, that one 'meal' was actually a four-hour eating window, and it was before bed, so the meal was actually delivered over a period of probably 8 hours.

 

[pebble]

Who are all these people saying you can eat one meal a day??? I haven't seen this "everyone" you speak of.

I don't feel like typing anymore, I'll just be repeating everyone else.

I have done a substantial amount of research on intermittent fasting. It isn't as detrimental as some people think. It does offer benefits such as increased sensitivity to nutrients which tends to alter hormones secretion patterns/ profiles favorably.

The primary negative effect of eating less frequent, is the possibility of fasted exercise which leads to significant levels of muscle degradation compared to postprandial exercise. It can actually lead to markers of degradation being significantly elevated for up to 48 hours.

 

[fqqs]

so

if I eat

meal 1 - 7am
meal 2- 10am
meal 3 - 1pm
meal 4 - 4pm
meal 5 - 7pm
meal 6 - 10pm

will it be EXACTLY the same in reagrd to muscle growth/body comp as if i eat:

meal 1&2 - 7pm
meal 3&4- 8pm
meal 5&6 - 9pm


YES OR NO?

 

[pebble]

so

if I eat

meal 1 - 7am
meal 2- 10am
meal 3 - 1pm
meal 4 - 4pm
meal 5 - 7pm
meal 6 - 10pm

will it be EXACTLY the same in reagrd to muscle growth/body comp as if i eat:

meal 1&2 - 7pm
meal 3&4- 8pm
meal 5&6 - 9pm


YES OR NO?

This isn't an exact science so no one can tell you that. I can advise you that the differences between those meal plans (if marcos are the same) will likely yield gains that are not significantly different.

Look at research on ramadan fasting compared to traditional calorie restriction. It is essentially what you outlined as your options.

 

[ThreeGigs]

so

if I eat

meal 1 - 7am
meal 2- 10am
meal 3 - 1pm
meal 4 - 4pm
meal 5 - 7pm
meal 6 - 10pm

will it be EXACTLY the same in reagrd to muscle growth/body comp as if i eat:

meal 1&2 - 7pm
meal 3&4- 8pm
meal 5&6 - 9pm


YES OR NO?

Nope, it'll be different. How different depends on your body and metabolism. If 3 hours between meals is enough time for your body to finish digesting the meal and for your blood nutrient (amino and glucose) levels to return to baseline, then you've got 5 good pulses plus the pre-bed meal. However if your digestive system is a bit slow, then you may be eating too often and NOT getting much benefit from pulsing. It also depends on just what is in each meal. How much fat and how long it takes the stomach to turn the meal into a liquid.

In scenario 2, you'll get plenty of calories, and the extra insulin sensitivity will help drive nutrients into your muscles. However as Pebble implied, your energy needs for the day will have to be supplied from your body's storage systems. Which is great for fat loss, but less than optimal for muscle building.

Be careful with the extremes. Eating all your food in a 2-hour period is quite extreme, so it's not really comparable with the way most people eat. If you're bulking, eat more often but not so often as to eliminate the times when your blood nutrients return to baseline fasting levels. Five meals four hours apart is a good overall setup. If cutting, try intermittent fasting with 3 meals in 8 hours (a meal every 4 hours), say 14:00, 18:00, 22:00.

But don't overthink it unless you're competitive and you *NEED* that last 5% potential gain to finish in a top spot. When I say timing isn't all that important it means if you blow a meal time by an hour or so, it's not going to make enough difference for 99% of bodybuilders to notice. I'm also sure most competitive BBers have had blood analyses done so they KNOW how fast their blood nutrient levels fall after a meal.

 

[Merkaba]

^this...

I mean damn, within reason. The point is that it doesn't need to be worried about as much as people want to. If you're going to eat one friggin meal a day then you might have some issues and I would say it wouldn't be optimal. The point is you don't have to eat 10 meals a day and all of that nonsense. Kinda like protein right after a workout. It's not that you have to do it, but if you can and you're serious and what optimal results or want to try to shoot for optimal results, go for it.

 

[fqqs]

ok tahnks for your input guys. so I shouldnt be afraid of sleeping too much and eating breakfast later in the day, fasting for blood test etc. as long as I eat my 5 meals ,preferably in regular intervals.

 

[Merkaba]

ok tahnks for your input guys. so I shouldnt be afraid of sleeping too much and eating breakfast later in the day, fasting for blood test etc. as long as I eat my 5 meals ,preferably in regular intervals.

Concentrate more on getting your numbers. 3 meals or 5 meals, doesn't matter. Just get your math/intake/macro's, etc.

 

[ThreeGigs]

Just wanted to bump this thread to add a link to some relevant info:

Intermittent Fasting | Free E-Book | Precision Nutrition Coaching

Free ebook download about his experiences over the last 8 months with intermittent fasting, and that from a 6-meal-a-day-is-my-religion type of guy. Reading it will make you stop worrying about eating times so much.

 

[tacoman]

wow good link ^