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Should Christians support Obama?
- Thread starter jagbender
- Start date
Oh well.
exphys88
Registered
correction, you didn't make a point. Governments are made up of humans and laws are enforced by humans, therefore even if jesus didn't discuss governments, he discussed how we should treat each other, which includes our laws and policies. You basically gave a cop out answer to treat people shitty and still say you're a christian and live the life the jesus intended you to.
jagbender
Registered
Gays want more than equal rights.
I'm no bible scholar but from what I gather I wouldn't be so sure about your claims. How an individual should act is not the same as how governments should operate. I make the argument all the time to Christians - just because something is immoral doesn't mean it should be illegal. Our founding fathers were able to see this distinction and I think the bible speaks very little(if at all?) about how a government should operate yet speaks heavily about how morality is an individual responsibility.
jagbender
Registered
I know a lot of people on this forum do not belive in the Bible. That is Ok with me. I choose to accept the Bible as God's word. The term Christian has watered down and diluted. A lot of "Christain" Church's do not teach scripture. I have only been studying scripture for 3 years and I happen to find it very interesting and humbling.
People can argue about religion for centuries. As a Christian I do have beliefs that a lot of what is happening in the world is not moral.
Obama is not a good leader his is an Anti Christ. There is a lot of truth in Bible prophesy, pick up a Bible and read it. What is happening in the Middle East, It's in there. New world order, In there.
One of the harderst things for me to understand was reading the Bible with today's meaning of the words today's morals and views, and by human standards. I really did not understand many of the words of the Bible until I started studying the context and the meanings of the words.
Christians were called Christians in Christ's time because they were different they were noticably different in the way they acted and believed. Today so many "Christians" call themselves Christians, but no one can tell the difference in them.
Today's casual Christians have done more damage to God's word than Atheists. I do agree with some of the views of posters here about Christianity. But I do belive that the Bible is the inspired word of God.
People can argue about religion for centuries. As a Christian I do have beliefs that a lot of what is happening in the world is not moral.
Obama is not a good leader his is an Anti Christ. There is a lot of truth in Bible prophesy, pick up a Bible and read it. What is happening in the Middle East, It's in there. New world order, In there.
One of the harderst things for me to understand was reading the Bible with today's meaning of the words today's morals and views, and by human standards. I really did not understand many of the words of the Bible until I started studying the context and the meanings of the words.
Christians were called Christians in Christ's time because they were different they were noticably different in the way they acted and believed. Today so many "Christians" call themselves Christians, but no one can tell the difference in them.
Today's casual Christians have done more damage to God's word than Atheists. I do agree with some of the views of posters here about Christianity. But I do belive that the Bible is the inspired word of God.
jagbender
Registered
Matthew 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christ, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
jagbender
Registered
The name Christian was first used, as Acts 11:26 records, to identify the disciples of Jesus Christ. The word "Christian" is the Greek word, "christianos" and it means an adherent of Jesus Christ. It literally means "Christ ones
jagbender
Registered
I just read this link and am still trying to find the part where "both religions are incorrect"
Actually this article shows at Mormon's are Biblically incorrect and that the Bible is the true word of God.
[h=2]Are Mormons Christians?[/h]
The Bible and the Scriptures of the LDS Church
Prove Conclusively that Mormons are not Biblical Christians.
by Cooper P. Abrams, III
(Published in O Timothy Magazine, Volume 13, Issue 9, October 1996)
Minor revisions made in January, 2003
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- Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations which Joseph Smith said were, ". . .all wrong...all their creeds were an abomination in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt." (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19)
In the past Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) have preferred to be called "saints." However, in the recent years the LDS church has spend millions in an intense public relations campaign aimed at moving their church into the mainstream of Christianity. The political and economic benefits of Mormons being included in the mainstream of Christianity are obvious. Further, for Mormons to be accepted as traditional Christians would greatly aid in their proselyting the members of Christian denominations into the LDS church. This is why the LDS church is trying so hard to present themselves as Christians and trying to overcome the stigma of being a cult.
Hopefully, this article will help the both Mormons and non-Mormons to see that Mormonism worships a different god and Jesus Christ and not the God and Jesus Christ of the Bible. The Constitution of the United States gives every citizen the right of freedom of religion and the LDS people have the right to believe as they desire. However, biblical Christians also have the right to defend their historic faith as revealed in the Bible and expose those who misuse their historic name.
This article, by presenting what God has said about who He is and His attributes, will show that the god of Mormonism is not God, our Creator, as He has revealed Himself in the Bible. The Bible's answer to the question, "Are Mormons Christians?" is simple: "They are not biblical Christians because their beliefs and teaching are contrary to what the Bible teaches and this reveals them to be a "Christian" cult."
A cult is a defined as a religion that uses the name of an astablished religion but changes its beliefs, practices, and terms. Cults often claim superiority over the historic faith.
The Mormon Church proudly declares they are Christians and their church bears the name of Jesus Christ, but the fact is they believe in a different Jesus Christ and god and not Jesus Christ who is our Creator (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17). This was confirmed by LDS Prophet Gordan B. Hinckley on June 4th, 1998 in a speech in Paris, France when he stated that those outside the the LDS Church who say that Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ" were correct. He further stated:
- "The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak as been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the matters of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Church News, June 20, 1998, p70)
The name Christian was first used, as Acts 11:26 records, to identify the disciples of Jesus Christ. The word "Christian" is the Greek word, "christianos" and it means an adherent of Jesus Christ. It literally means "Christ ones." (Acts 11:26, 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16) The correct definition of the word is one who is a follower of the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Never in two thousand years has the word "Christian" had any other meaning or reference to anyone other than the historical Jesus Christ of the New Testament.
[h=3]Why Mormons are not Christians?[/h]
First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather a difference Jesus. This is why most biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians. Let me explain.
The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible. To the Mormons, Jesus, is the first born son of an exalted "man" who became the god of this world. According to LDS church teaching, their god was first a man who became a god. The man-god of Mormonism was then made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the Universe. He "earned" godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men on earth. This is what the celestial marriage and the temple vows are all about. LDS men, by doing their temple work, are striving for exaltation by which they too shall one day can become a god. Their wives will be the mother goddesses of "their" world and with their husband will produce the population of their world. This is the Mormon doctrine of "eternal progression."
Note the following quote is from the Mormon, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde:
"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is." Lorenzo Snow, late President of the Mormon church, made this statement in the second verse of his famous poem entitled, "Man's Destiny":
"As Abra'm, Isaac, Jacob, too, First babes, then men-to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,- Which doth unfold man's destiny. . ."
First the god of Mormonism is not the God of the Bible.
The God of the Bible is not an exalted man. The God and Creator according to His word is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. The Bible says He is the only God and there are no other Gods. He had no beginning or end and he is a Spirit being and never was a man.
[h=3]Note the clear teaching of the Bible as to who the real God is:[/h]
Numbers 23:19, "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
Psalms 102:26-17, "They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end."
Isaiah 43:10-11, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior." Isaiah 44:6, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
Isaiah 44:8, "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."
Isaiah 45:21-22, "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else."
Jeremiah 23:24, "Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD."
Malachi 3:6, "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."
John 1:16-18, "And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 4:24, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
Romans 1:22, "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."
Colossians 1:15, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"
1 Timothy 1:17, "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen." 1 Timothy 6:16, "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."
Clearly, the Mormons' god is not the God of Christianity who is God revealed to us in the Bible. The Mormon god is god, formed from the imaginations of Joseph Smith and does not exist. He is completely different from the God of the Bible our Creator.
[h=3]Second: The Jesus Christ of Mormonism is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible. [/h]
The Mormon Jesus is the son of this man-god. The Mormon Jesus is the brother of all men on earth and also the brother Lucifer. He is not, to the LDS church, "God incarnate" which means God come to earth as man, as the Bible plainly states. (Matt. 1:23) Clearly, the Mormon god and Jesus cannot the true God and Jesus of the Bible.
According to LDS popular LDS thought, Jesus married several of the Marys of the New Testament. Orson Hyde, the Mormon Apostle said, "We say it was Jesus Christ who was married in the marriage of Cana of Galilee." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, page 80)
Brigham Young, contradicted God's word as recorded in Luke 1:35 and said, "When the Virgin Mary conceived the Child Jesus...He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is His father? He is the first of the human family." (Journal of Discourses, Pages 50-51)
>Compare this with the Word of God which says: - "The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak as been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the matters of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Church News, June 20, 1998, p70)
exphys88
Registered
I made the point that only one can. E correct, it was in response to someone claiming that Mormons are Christian.
jagbender
Registered
Thank you for clarifying.
I do agree Mormons are not Christians.
A cult is a defined as a religion that uses the name of an astablished religion but changes its beliefs, practices, and terms. Cults often claim superiority over the historic faith.
The Mormon Church proudly declares they are Christians and their church bears the name of Jesus Christ, but the fact is they believe in a different Jesus Christ and god and not Jesus Christ who is our Creator (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17). This was confirmed by LDS Prophet Gordan B. Hinckley on June 4th, 1998 in a speech in Paris, France when he stated that those outside the the LDS Church who say that Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ" were correct. He further stated:
- "The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak as been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the matters of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Church News, June 20, 1998, p70)
Standard Donkey
Registered
mfw people ITT think they know what christians are/believe
mfw real christians are libertarians
mfw i have no face
mfw real christians are libertarians
mfw i have no face
exphys88
Registered
Translation?
[SUP]this pleases Jesus and The Father:
[/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
about peoples behavior:
For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. [SUP]16 [/SUP]If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it isgood. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
For your reading pleasure:
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[SUP][a][/SUP] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God?through Jesus Christ our Lord!
[/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
about peoples behavior:
For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. [SUP]16 [/SUP]If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it isgood. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
For your reading pleasure:
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[SUP][a][/SUP] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God?through Jesus Christ our Lord!
jagbender
Registered
I had to go to the Urban dictionary. I am getting old
my face when
Urban Dictionary: mfw
ITT in this thread
Urban Dictionary: ITT
exphys88
Registered
Oh geez
jagbender
Registered
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
exphys88
Registered
Fixed!
religion is man's attempt to reach God. Jesus is God reaching out to man.
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Edit another man's words because you have a difference of opinion? Cheap. Weak. This isn't AG.
exphys88
Registered
You call him god, I call him by his real name; the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Some day you will come to see the truth
If gays want to marry same sex, they have to leave church. I they want to be christians, they have to act normal and marry opposite sex. They can't have both ways. They can't force church to change the its policy. Any christians who support same sex marriage is breaking one of the rules of the church. Politicians should stay away from religions.
exphys88
Registered
I agree
Gods name spoken by Him:
Then Moses said to God, ?Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ?The God of your fathers has sent me to you,? and they say to me, ?What is His name?? what shall I say to them??
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said to Moses, ?I AM WHO I AM.? And He said, ?Thus you shall say to the children of Israel,?I AM has sent me to you.??
The Truth:
Jesus answered, ?I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
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[TD][SIZE=+2]A Few Declarations of Founding Fathers and Early Statesmen on Jesus, Christianity, and the Bible
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Standard Donkey
Registered
exphys88
Registered
They did a great job of cherry picking those quotes. They left out the Jefferson bible in which he removed any scripture that mentions the divinity of Jesus.
I could also post some quotes that suggest disgust w Christianity by the founding fathers.
exphys88
Registered
yeah the truth that nothing exploded and created everything.. duh
it's science
Is that how god was created? Surely something as complex as god had to have been created and couldn't just come from nothing?
Have you ever taken a biology class?
The FSM shit him on an asteroid and a sun hatched him...
Standard Donkey
Registered
yes i took bio in highschool lol..
still dont know how something comes from nothing tho
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