Should Christians support Obama?

[exphys88]

I'm still rather unhappy to have found an article on Wiki that's so horrifically biased and based on opinion.

Yes, I am too, I usually find it to be very reliable.

 

[DOMS]

lol. I was referring to your earlier statement that you were convinced about his atheism from books that you read. The problem is that he said he was a christian, never said he was an atheist, yet you conclude he is one because he condemns religion?

He hated religion and all the notions that went with it. No one with an ego that big would believe in a universe where there may be someone above them. You really should read up on him. He should have been Time Man of the Century. No one person affected the world that century than him.

But hey, if you feel the need to believe that he's religious, go for it. I choose to because the facts I've read say so. It doesn't effect anything for me one way or the other. I just like to base my world-view on the facts as much as possible.

Also, claiming to be an atheist back in those days would be political suicide. He never would've come out and said it. It's the things he said to his family and the people that he associated with that show that he had nothing to do with religion, including the belief in god.

 

[hoyle21]

Stalin actually attended a seminary school on partial scholarship. He was expelled eventually. History is conflicting here on why.

 

[DOMS]

Stalin actually attended a seminary school on partial scholarship. He was expelled eventually. History is conflicting here on why.

Maybe it was for shooting seminary all over the teacher?

 

[hoyle21]

He hated religion and all the notions that went with it.

So did Jesus.

 

[DOMS]

So did Jesus.

Come here. I've got some seminary for you, too.

 

[DOMS]

 

[NVRBDR]

wow, this thread really sparked some interesting debate.

from the book of James 1:26-27If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

 

[KelJu]

This is the best post in this thread!

 

[maniclion]

We should take the one thing most religions tend to agree upon and just stick with it, and that is the Golden Rule....amen.

 

[secdrl]

If evolution is real, why did we stop evolving? As a surface example, why are apes no longer turning into humans? Evolution, IMO, is science fiction.

 

[exphys88]

If evolution is real, why did we stop evolving? As a surface example, why are apes no longer turning into humans? Evolution, IMO, is science fiction.

This question does not even warrant an answer, but il help you a little. First, evolution takes millions of years for species to change. Secondly, apes didn't turn into man, we share a common ancestor w apes. You could get these answers in a junior high biology book.

 

[secdrl]

This question does not even warrant an answer, but il help you a little. First, evolution takes millions of years for species to change. Secondly, apes didn't turn into man, we share a common ancestor w apes. You could get these answers in a junior high biology book.

I guess that's where creationists differ from individuals like yourself. You take all of your beliefs and views as fact, no discussion, set in stone, non-debatable. But, if a creationist has an opposing view, they're uninformed, illiterate idiots. Makes sense.

 

[Zaphod]

Naw, I don't care what color he is. Its the future spending spree that is truely frightening. He took a good idea like health care and is projected to spend us into oblivion. I just don't think that level of future spending is sustainable. Its a boat load of future spending on top of already massive present spending.

I'm interested in knowing where you got the information that the healthcare reform law is going to spend us into oblivion.

 

[exphys88]

I guess that's where creationists differ from individuals like yourself. You take all of your beliefs and views as fact, no discussion, set in stone, non-debatable. But, if a creationist has an opposing view, they're uninformed, illiterate idiots. Makes sense.

I'm merely pointing that if you ask questions like that, you haven't taken the time to really study evolution.
Evolution is a non issue to virtually every scientist, it's been a fact to scientists for centuries. There is no debate within the scientific community, because the evidence is overwhelming.

 

[NVRBDR]

I'm merely pointing that if you ask questions like that, you haven't taken the time to really study evolution.
Evolution is a non issue to virtually every scientist, it's been a fact to scientists for centuries. There is no debate within the scientific community, because the evidence is overwhelming.

In secdrl defense, you have not taken the time to study the bible, but claim it to be foolishness at best. furthermore, you claim those that do study the bible are of lesser intelligence and incapable of critical thinking, unlike yourself and others that agree with you.

op? There are so many reasons not to vote for B Hussein Obama, IMO, you don't have to factor his religion in. I believe he is a muslim, not a christian as he claims he is. I remember BHO said he was a muslim during an interview on ABC, the guy giving the interview had to correct him.

 

[exphys88]

Actually I was raised a Christian and wasted way too much of my life reading the bible.
The fact is that the evidence for evolution is non debatable to scientists, including an increasing number of theistic evolutionists as heavy has suggested. It really is a waste of time debating it, and I'm sorry if that offends you, but creationism is a joke, and creationists do not deserve the opportunity to debate such ridiculousness.

 

[NVRBDR]

You were raised a Christian? Were you part of a religion or a church? Ironically, I never stepped foot into a church until I was 30 years old! I started reading the bible, my family I are enjoying Gods goodness in our life's in a grand way... LOL, Exphys, It takes a lot more than a disagreement of philosophies of life to get me offended, so no worries brother, I am not offended at anything posted in this thead. I enjoyed it for the most part
At your last comment "creationism is a joke"... nor deserve the opportunity to debate...

[SUP]13 [/SUP]These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy[SUP][a][/SUP] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?”

 

[exphys88]

We went to church, but not often. I had many Christian friends in junior high and youth group was a big part of my life. But, once I took biology my freshman year, I realized that evolution was undeniable and was not compatible w the creation story.
I've spent my free time since then studying darwins natural selection and even took an entire semester class about him in college. I've also read nearly every one of Dawkins, Harris, hitchens and Denny's books.
I'm not a bible expert, but I know enough to make up my mind that evolution is really how we came to be, and the evidence is solid.
The most educated and intelligent scientists, who understand our world better than anyone else are nearly all in agreement about evolution (some who are Christian). Do you really think there is some kind of conspiracy?
I like to make the point that there are virtually no non-religious scientists who question evolution, but there are plenty of religious folks that question creation.
Here is a great Christian site that educates young earth creationists on all of the evidence of evolution and an old earth. I highly recommend taking a look.

http://www.oldearth.org/

 

[maniclion]

If evolution is real, why did we stop evolving? As a surface example, why are apes no longer turning into humans? Evolution, IMO, is science fiction.

Who says we've stopped evolving? Over what period of time do you think evolution happens? A couple generations? A millennium?

 

[Diesel618]

lol @ evolution being science fiction, while an all-powerful omnipotent being who sees all and is concerned with the smallest human affairs and takes time out of all that to answer little Bobby's prayers being the best counterpoint available.

 

[HialeahChico305]

Ejaculations 4;20
"For those that maketh funeth of others mother, shall perish in spaghetti w meatballs."

 

[Gissurjon]

11 pages!! fohohohohoho reeal!??

 

[exphys88]

The word of god, lol!

 

[bandaidwoman]

so what other scientific theory predicted that chimps, like humans, lack the Gal-alpha(1,3)-Gal sugar molecule on the surface of their proteins, ( important in organ rejection), which is why we have to genetically modify pig tissues ( knock it out...knock out gene) to transplant pig skin on humans? (There is astronomical cost and ethical reasons why we don't harvest chimp tissues and organs for humans even though we would not reject them like unmodified pig tissues)
By the way all old world primates lack this surface antigen, unlike new world primates ( farther from us on the evolutionary tree). What should I teach my medical students? Intelligent design in no fucking way predicted this, we use evolutionary theory to help us in xenotranpslantion and you can bet your ass we use it all the friggin time in medicine.

 

[exphys88]

so what other scientific theory predicted that chimps, like humans, lack the Gal-alpha(1,3)-Gal sugar molecule on the surface of their proteins, ( important in organ rejection), which is why we have to genetically modify pig tissues ( knock it out...knock out gene) to transplant pig skin on humans? (There is astronomical cost and ethical reasons why we don't harvest chimp tissues and organs for humans even though we would not reject them like unmodified pig tissues)
By the way all old world primates lack this surface antigen, unlike new world primates ( farther from us on the evolutionary tree). What should I teach my medical students? Intelligent design in no fucking way predicted this, we use evolutionary theory to help us in xenotranpslantion and you can bet your ass we use it all the friggin time in medicine.

God works in mysterious ways?

 

[heavyiron]

View attachment 46029

The word of god, lol!

Actually many ancient manuscripts used are remarkable in how close they resemble each other. Might be differences in a letter or word here and there but the similarities on many are striking. However this would be dependent on which text is used. The Majority text would be the majority that agrees while the Critical text would be more eclectic.

If memory serves they found a version of Isaiah that was about 10 centuries older than the oldest previous copy and the differences between a thousand years of copying made no major notable changes to the understanding of the writing. Basically they conveyed a similar message with some variances.

This is also true of many non religious ancient manuscripts we embrace today. Textual variations will always be a part of ancient writings that are copied. I imagine Shakespeare has variants as well.

Not sure if you have ever studied textual criticism and the criteria used but its a complex field that is hard to summarize here. I spent a few months studying it and can honestly say it was not enough time to understand all the variables.

 

[jagbender]

the creation story, noah's ark, the resurrection of jesus.

we know that the entire human race cannot originate from 2 humans.

you cannot fit 2 of every animal on a boat, especially if they have to travel from other continents, not to mention the issue with what happened to the dinosaurs that lived in the oceans.

humans do not come back to life after being buried for 3 days, not even with our technology today.

Humans cannot come back to life, But God can do all things.

 

[exphys88]

Actually many ancient manuscripts used are remarkable in how close they resemble each other. Might be differences in a letter or word here and there but the similarities on many are striking. However this would be dependent on which text is used. The Majority text would be the majority that agrees while the Critical text would be more eclectic.

If memory serves they found a version of Isaiah that was about 10 centuries older than the oldest previous copy and the differences between a thousand years of copying made no major notable changes to the understanding of the writing. Basically they conveyed a similar message with some variances.

This is also true of many non religious ancient manuscripts we embrace today. Textual variations will always be a part of ancient writings that are copied. I imagine Shakespeare has variants as well.

Not sure if you have ever studied textual criticism and the criteria used but its a complex field that is hard to summarize here. I spent a few months studying it and can honestly say it was not enough time to understand all the variables.

No, I have not studied that at all.

I'm not sure on your position, are you of the opinion that the bible is the word of god, or the word of many different men? I'm surprised if you are convinced it's the word of god, because in your postings here, you require strict factual evidence of any claim made, yet would have to completely ignore that requirement to believe anything in the bible.

 

[exphys88]

Humans cannot come back to life, But God can do all things.

I bet he can't make a rock too big for him to lift up. And, if he can do anything, then he knowingly allows the suffering of humans on a daily basis, which makes him an awful example to live by, not to mention all the innocent women and children he massacred in the old testament.