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Should Stanley "Tookie" Williams Be Granted Clemency?

Should Stanley "Tookie" Williams Be Granted Clemency?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 25.8%
  • No

    Votes: 23 74.2%

  • Total voters
    31
P-funk said:
How is it racist? They commited the crime. I don't see what that has to do with anything. Black, white, yellow, green, if you commit the crime you pay for it. If more black people commit crimes that are worthy of the death penalty then any other race that is their fucking problem.

Surely you don???t believe (can???t believe) that more Black people commit crimes that are worthy of death than any other race.
Maybe you didn???t catch this the first go around:

The number of white inmates on death row (45%) slightly exceeds the number of black inmates (42%), but these numbers are way out of proportion with the population. The issue is not who commits more crime. A study in Philadelphia showed that when black and white defendants were convicted of comparable crimes, black defendants were 38% more likely to receive the death penalty.
http://progressivewritersbloc.com/DC/DeathPenalty.htm

No, blacks do not commit more crimes worthy of the death penalty. They are just convicted at a higher rate.

And, by the way, I???m not suggesting that anyone (black or white) who commits murder should receive any sympathy. I think that such people should serve time in prison. I just don???t believe in the death penalty given the racist manner in which it???s administered.
 
Diakonos said:
Surely you don???t believe (can???t believe) that more Black people commit crimes that are worthy of death than any other race.
Maybe you didn???t catch this the first go around:


http://progressivewritersbloc.com/DC/DeathPenalty.htm

No, blacks do not commit more crimes worthy of the death penalty. They are just convicted at a higher rate.

And, by the way, I???m not suggesting that anyone (black or white) who commits murder should receive any sympathy. I think that such people should serve time in prison. I just don???t believe in the death penalty given the racist manner in which it???s administered.


yep, totally racist. give me a break....if this were a white guy in stanley's position then black people and the NAACP would be running around saying "here it is...another white man getting a free pass."

I think if you kill somone you should be killed too. Why should my tax dollars go to these guys living out their life in prison. For all intenst and purposes, they are already dead! They have no rights. All they are doing is wasting space and wasting our money.
 
P-funk said:
yep, totally racist. give me a break....if this were a white guy in stanley's position then black people and the NAACP would be running around saying "here it is...another white man getting a free pass."

I think if you kill somone you should be killed too. Why should my tax dollars go to these guys living out their life in prison. For all intenst and purposes, they are already dead! They have no rights. All they are doing is wasting space and wasting our money.

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
 
Ok, enough about the criminal justice system. Now I???m going to get religious on you. Here is the question I pose those of you who profess to be Christian. If Jesus forgives/forgave this man, why can???t we? How can those of us who are the undeserving benefactors of salvation deny it to anyone else? For those of you who take the position that Tookey Williams can be/has been forgiven (and I realize that is a stretch in this forum), what does forgiveness look like?
 
Oh he can be forgiven, but he was still found guilty and sentenced. So after his execution, his soul will ascend to heaven. At least that's how I feel.
 
how can you forgive a man that has still not apologized for his wrong doing? Fuck that asshole.

I am not religious at all either so I am out on that debate.
 
P-funk said:
how can you forgive a man that has still not apologized for his wrong doing? Fuck that asshole.

I am not religious at all either so I am out on that debate.

You bring up a valid point. If he hasn't apologized, and asked for his forgiveness, then I can't see forgiving him. That has to come first, after all, the Bible does say that you have to ask to be forgiven in order to be forgiven.
 
The Bible also says that Jesus died for the ungodly and those who had yet to repent for their sins.

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. Indeed, rarely will anyone die for a righteous person???though perhaps for a good person someone might actually dare to die. But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us.
Romans 5:6-8
 
Diakonos said:
Ok, enough about the criminal justice system. Now I???m going to get religious on you. Here is the question I pose those of you who profess to be Christian. If Jesus forgives/forgave this man, why can???t we? How can those of us who are the undeserving benefactors of salvation deny it to anyone else? For those of you who take the position that Tookey Williams can be/has been forgiven (and I realize that is a stretch in this forum), what does forgiveness look like?
I have the answer..............Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
Fry the racist killer and let Jesus Judge him.
 
Diakonos said:

This is the biggest pile of racist shit I've ever seen.

Black Electorate
Black Pride
Black Power
Black Scholarships

These are apparantly all okay terms... funny thing is if I was to change Black to White in any of these, I would get chewed up and spit out for being a racist. It's okay if it's black though.

Just the fact that you are making this a racial issue shows that you are prejudice. When I first started reading the thread, I thought - this guy started a gang and killed some people... kill him. The idea of whether or not he was black, white or latino never even crossed my mind. I never had a mental picture of him being black and saying oh better kill him. I just thought about the facts. And that is really where it should end. The fact that he is black should never have even been mentioned in this thread.

What about white serial killers? If they start writing childrens books should they get off? Of course not.

You are the reason racism still exists in this country. Just by bringing up the race card and making it a big deal, you are forcing race to be noticed and forcing people to pay attention to race. Racism will exist until people stop noticing and caring about race... but you obviously don't want that to happen.

If you keep bringing up race issues (and blaming race on crap that has nothing to do with race), don't expect racism to ever go away.
 
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NeilPearson said:
This is the biggest pile of racist shit I've ever seen.

Black Electorate
Black Pride
Black Power
Black Scholarships

These are apparantly all okay terms... funny thing is if I was to change Black to White in any of these, I would get chewed up and spit out for being a racist. It's okay if it's black though.

Just the fact that you are making this a racial issue shows that you are prejudice. When I first started reading the thread, I thought - this guy started a gang and killed some people... kill him. The idea of whether or not he was black, white or latino never even crossed my mind. I never had a mental picture of him being black and saying oh better kill him. I just thought about the facts. And that is really where it should end. The fact that he is black should never have even been mentioned in this thread.

What about white serial killers? If they start writing childrens books should they get off? Of course not.

You are the reason racism still exists in this country. Just by bringing up the race card and making it a big deal, you are forcing race to be noticed and forcing people to pay attention to race. Racism will exist until people stop noticing and caring about race... but you obviously don't want that to happen.

If you keep bringing up race issues (and blaming race on crap that has nothing to do with race), don't expect racism to ever go away.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Hit dog, will holla.
You act as if racism will simply just go away or disappear if we "ignore it". I???m not going to bury my head in the sand and act as if racism doesn???t exist, because it makes you feel uncomfortable. Furthermore, if you look at any number of the post that I have made (which you are well able to do by clicking on my name under my avatar), you will see that this is the only thread discussion that have actually brought up the issue of race. Why? Because when it comes to the death penalty and the way that it is practiced, race is a factor. The reason racism still exist today is because people like you refuse to acknowledge it (and deal with it).
 
Diakonos said:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Hit dog, will holla.
You act as if racism will simply just go away or disappear if we "ignore it". I???m not going to bury my head in the sand and act as if racism doesn???t exist, because it makes you feel uncomfortable. Furthermore, if you look at any number of the post that I have made (which you are well able to do by clicking on my name under my avatar), you will see that this is the only thread discussion that have actually brought up the issue of race. Why? Because when it comes to the death penalty and the way that it is practiced, race is a factor. The reason racism still exist today is because people like you refuse to acknowledge it (and deal with it).

How are we supposed to deal with it in your eyes? Free all the guilty black prisoners? Or just the ones on Death Row? Noone denies it still exists, but people try to point out that it is a 2-way street that others aren't willing to except.
 
Diakonos said:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Hit dog, will holla.
You act as if racism will simply just go away or disappear if we "ignore it". I???m not going to bury my head in the sand and act as if racism doesn???t exist, because it makes you feel uncomfortable. Furthermore, if you look at any number of the post that I have made (which you are well able to do by clicking on my name under my avatar), you will see that this is the only thread discussion that have actually brought up the issue of race. Why? Because when it comes to the death penalty and the way that it is practiced, race is a factor. The reason racism still exist today is because people like you refuse to acknowledge it (and deal with it).
It has a lot to do w/ perspective....Obviously white people are not FORCED to deal w/ it. I think certain cities and location have a lot to do w/ it too.

From my experience most people have a logical grasp on the degree to which racism affects our community...the one's who don't are the naive whites who have never interacted in diverse settings, and blacks (who are usually from the burbs who like to think they aren't) the look for rasicm under a microscope and blow any minor discrepency into an act of inequality.

I think the death penalty and the judicail brach is not prejudice or racist in a direct manner...it is biased by economic class. if you can't afford top notch lawyers you are at a serious disadvantage; therefore, inherently blacks who are proportionally more poor than whites sit at a disadvantage....indirectly
 
dougnukem said:
How are we supposed to deal with it in your eyes? Free all the guilty black prisoners? Or just the ones on Death Row? Noone denies it still exists, but people try to point out that it is a 2-way street that others aren't willing to except.

At no point and time did I ever suggest that Tookey Williams (or any other guilty prisoner on death row for that matter) should be set free. As a matter of fact, I clearly stated in an earlier post that Tookey should serve the remainder of his time in prison.
 
Diakonos said:
At no point and time did I ever suggest that Tookey Williams (or any other guilty prisoner on death row for that matter) should be set free. As a matter of fact, I clearly stated in an earlier post that Tookey should serve the remainder of his time in prison.

I know, that's why my statements in the form of a question. You could have said no, and that would have worked for me. :D
 
Diakonos said:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Hit dog, will holla.
You act as if racism will simply just go away or disappear if we "ignore it". I???m not going to bury my head in the sand and act as if racism doesn???t exist, because it makes you feel uncomfortable. Furthermore, if you look at any number of the post that I have made (which you are well able to do by clicking on my name under my avatar), you will see that this is the only thread discussion that have actually brought up the issue of race. Why? Because when it comes to the death penalty and the way that it is practiced, race is a factor. The reason racism still exist today is because people like you refuse to acknowledge it (and deal with it).

I know I never think about racism or when I meet someone I never think, "oh he's black" or "he's white"... I just meet people. The only time racism ever crosses my mind or I ever see it is when minority groups try and get special rights.

I am not saying ignore it... I am just saying don't create it where it doesn't exist.
 
Stop blurring the lines between maniac & martyr

Tonight in California, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is going to have a closed meeting with those trying to get Stanley (Tookie) Williams clemency and those in law enforcement who want Williams to meet his end on Tuesday.
Williams, who was sentenced to death after being found guilty of murdering four people in 1979, has the dubious honor of being one of the founders of the vicious street gang, the Crips.

Still, Williams is being held up as an example of redemption because he has supposedly turned his life around. He has written children's books that speak out against gang violence. But the actor and writer Joseph Phillips discovered that the highest selling children's book written by Williams has sold only 330 copies. Not exactly a universal audience. The murderer has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize five times. But almost anyone can nominate you. That does not prove universal acknowledgment of importance.

What does all of this mean? Little. When we see the NAACP, Jamie Foxx, Danny Glover and that paragon of public morality, Snoop Dogg, calling for Williams to receive clemency, one is sure that they have bought into the big con that has as its foundation the interconnectedness of the death penalty and race. The two elements have become so interwoven that some assume that if a black man is on Death Row it has something to do with bias and an unrepresentative jury pool. One of the men crying for Williams to get clemency cites the fact that he was tried by an all-white jury, none of whom were his peers. Does that mean that Williams should have had a jury of ruthless gang leaders? Williams, like all criminals, is a lawbreaker first and has an ethnic identity second.

The hard fact is that since 1980, street gangs have killed 10,000 people in Los Angeles, which is three times the number of black people lynched throughout the United States between 1877 and 1900, the highest tide of racial murder in the history of the nation.

Our commitment to redemption is fundamental to our civilization. But since the death of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. in 1968, we have seen the same games run on the black community by the identical kinds of political hustlers who almost never met a criminal or a murderer who was not the real victim of society and should be forgiven all crimes, which, as in the Williams case, shouldn't even be discussed. Look to the bright side. Give the brother a break.

I wouldn't touch that kind of thinking with a garbage man's glove. Yesterday was the anniversary of Colin Ferguson's rampage on the Long Island Rail Road. Maybe he should come out of his mental fog and start writing children's books. Ferguson might join Williams in a nomination for the Nobel Prize and watch the chumps line up in support of clemency for his bloody acts. Who knows? Hope springs eternal.


crouch_s.jpg

NY Daily News Writer
 
Although race and socio-economic status can be discussed when the topic regard prison, sentencing (crack vs. cocaine), and the death penalty,

I think Mr. Williams should be executed.

I have seen the photos of his murdered victims.

The fact that he started a notorious street gang that later evolved to destroy entire communities is another reason for him to be executed.
 
Diakonos said:
Secondly, the death penalty does not deter crime. It does however punish the poor, and in some cases condemn the innocent to die.

It may not deter crime, who gives a shit? People who kill other people should not be allowed to continue doing so, by being set free to do it again (sometimes it happens).

Yes, being poor puts you on death row. :rolleyes:

I do however agree, its fucked that sometimes innocents are sent down the walk.
 
I think it's a disgrace that people are even talking about this guy.

Nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?

This is laughable.

He's written a couple of books. If they were so good and influential, how come no one has heard of them, by name?

It's a laugh.

Gassing this jerk-off is being too easy on him.

They ought to torture him first.

I've seen the photos of the people he killed.

While they are at it, they should round up the rest of the gang banger, execute them too.
 
Mr_Snafu said:
I think it's a disgrace that people are even talking about this guy.

Nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?

This is laughable.

He's written a couple of books. If they were so good and influential, how come no one has heard of them, by name?

It's a laugh.

Gassing this jerk-off is being too easy on him.

They ought to torture him first.

I've seen the photos of the people he killed.

While they are at it, they should round up the rest of the gang banger, execute them too.



I agree. He was a man that used his time on death row wisely. Now it is time for him to pay the price for the crimes he commited.
 
Was he a model citizen in prison?
Didn't the Crips flourish during his time in prison?
I can imagine how many people were shanked on his orders....
 
If I were the Law, I would cut off this guys arms, legs, penis, tongue, take out his eyes, Torture him, and barely keep him alive, for as long as I could. Useless people who kill people (not out of self defense, or an accident like your car skids into another car, or something like that) Deserve this. If we executed everybody who purposely hurt, raped, or killed people for no reason; Cut off the arms of people who Don't need to steal to live (like homeless people stealing food) this world would be a much better place to live. However, people believe in a magical dinosaur called good who pooped the world out of his ass, So there will always be a lot of rape, murder, and attacks because the most we can do is put a person on death row for 20 years then peacefully let him die. Else the people who believe in god would bitch about the rights of these murderer's and rapist.
 
My "Lawyer" spouse asked me to ask this question....


Is there solid prove that he actually did it, we are not talking about eyewitness testimoney.
We are talking about DNA, gun powder....blah blah blah.
 
min0 lee said:
My "Lawyer" spouse asked me to ask this question....


Is there solid prove that he actually did it, we are not talking about eyewitness testimoney.
We are talking about DNA, gun powder....blah blah blah.
jajaja
 
min0 lee said:
My "Lawyer" spouse asked me to ask this question....


Is there solid prove that he actually did it, we are not talking about eyewitness testimoney.
We are talking about DNA, gun powder....blah blah blah.


I got some "solid DNA proof" for her... :D
 
Let the families of his victims decide.
 
Diakonos said:
If Jesus forgives/forgave this man, why can???t we? How can those of us who are the undeserving benefactors of salvation deny it to anyone else?

Who said murderers are forgiven? Read the 10 Commandments sometime.
 
Diakonos said:
The Bible also says that Jesus died for the ungodly and those who had yet to repent for their sins.

And that has nothing to do with absolving sin of a murderer.
 
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