thanks gr
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Squats with smith machine
- Thread starter Jvette73
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hey man i'm just reflecting the ideas of the people i train with...
i was by no means directly criticizing u prince
oh i see now you got a personal vendetta against me now with that dumb people joke?
Oak, the problem with your statments is that they are taken from personal trainers that clearly have no knowledege of biomechanics and exercise science. I hate walking into other gyms and seeing how trainers train people. They have very little knowledge of the body, anatomy and the way in which things work. As far as bodybulders go their advice is to be taken with a grain of salt. They have even less knowledge of this stuff and are pumping some much crap down their throats that no matter what they do they will have great results.
I can ohonestly tell you that I have studied this stuff extensivley and am trying to help you realize why the smith squat is improper and dangerous. Besides the fact that you are not driving through your forces and all the other things I have mentioned you must look at the pelvis. This is probably the worst thing about the smith squat, you pelvis is always in an anterior tilt because of the nature of this exercise. Leaving your back in a vunuralble postition for injury. I see a lot of crazy things in the gym everyday and I don't like to see people get hurt. We are trying to help you out, not fight with you.
peace,
Patrick
I can ohonestly tell you that I have studied this stuff extensivley and am trying to help you realize why the smith squat is improper and dangerous. Besides the fact that you are not driving through your forces and all the other things I have mentioned you must look at the pelvis. This is probably the worst thing about the smith squat, you pelvis is always in an anterior tilt because of the nature of this exercise. Leaving your back in a vunuralble postition for injury. I see a lot of crazy things in the gym everyday and I don't like to see people get hurt. We are trying to help you out, not fight with you.
peace,
Patrick
Maybe it would be appropraite to spin off a seperate thread on Smith Machines. But I am still personally interested in the other part of Jvette's question. Namely, partial motion. I can load up a TON of weight on the hack squat machine relative to what I can do on the squat rack but I do not go all the way past parallel eitther - more like 80%-95% to parallel. But if I drop the weight by about 50% I can go well below parallel and feel that I get a much better workout with half the weight and a little higher rep count per set. With the heavy 80-95% range of motion to parallel I get tired but not burned. With the 50% of max weight at extended range of motion past parallel I am burning and so sore I need to lay in bed all morning the next day.
So - what is better - going heavy with slightly less than full range of motion or going lighter and getting an exegerated range of motion and really feeling the burn?
Most personal trainers I see know 4 things:
1) Chest - work it 4 times a week
2) Biceps - work them 4 times a week
3) Leg Extensions - do them once a week and never squat
4) Drink the $5.00 shake at the juice bar after you've just spent 2 hours working your chest and biceps.
Holy crap!Originally posted by Prince
Here is a pic of the scene from Arnold's Pumping Iron where him and Dave Draper are squatting with free weights!
What happened to the bar??And by the way OTB, at my gym you have to have no experience to be hired as a trainer! How scary is that! I probably know more than all our trainers put together and I don't know didly!
Originally posted by dg806
Holy crap!
And by the way OTB, at my gym you have to have no experience to be hired as a trainer! How scary is that! I probably know more than all our trainers put together and I don't know didly!
This was how they use to bend volkswagen transaxels in the old days - take em to Gold's Gym, load up some weight on em and have the big boys bounce em a few times on their shoulders till it came out kinda straight.
If you have his encyclopeida of modern bodybuilding book you will notice from the old pictures that all the equipment in those days was total junk - lots of cheepie Joe Weider gear and wooden benches. duct tape wrapped padding and the like.
MeanCuts
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Bro can you stop kissing so much butt it's making me ill.
MeanCuts
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I agree that free weights are better than machine weights and perhaps in the long run they're safer because your balance,cordination..ect will be stronger from doing free weights but I still think because the balance is reduced by the smith machine and the fact you know you can stop at any time and don't have to rack the weight,makes the smith machine easier and safer to use.JMO but a little practice with a free weight barbell and it can be very safe too,plus you'll get the extra benefits that come from using free weights.I personally use the smith machine once a month and I like the change up from free weights.
Originally posted by Mudge
Most of the entry level Olympic bars are also only rated to about 500 pounds
Did they charge you a damage deposit ?
jim1954 that may be slightly too sublte for some here...
Jvette73
Registered
Well maybe ill have to start lookin around for a squat rack as I would never discount the benifits of free squats. Not quite sure where I would put it at this point but I could figure somethin out. For now ill continue to use the smith. After reading the responses from this thread I went down and practiced some form(light weight) with different foot positions for squats using the smith. Ill say again, my bar moves up and down totally vertical. With my foot position forward and leaning back into the bar I definatly noticed more stress on the knees, so I can see how that could increase chance of injury especially when using heavy weights. But is there a rule that says I have to use a forward foot position? With my feet placed further back under the bar, my back stays straight, my head stays up, I dip straight down. The majority of the workout is put on my legs reducing the chance of back injury. At least thats how it feels to me. With my back held straight since the bar is in a fixed line, It wont allow me to cheat by leaning forward and using my back as might be possible with a free squat. Because of this ive been able to get a good leg workout to complete failure while using less weight. To me that means less chance of injury to both knees and back. I like the fact that I can use the smith safely without a spotter. Since aquiring it, my legs have gotten stronger and bigger and look better than ever before. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion and thats what makes good debate. Because some people think one method is better then another, does not make the other totally useless. A thousand people can call a dog a horse but that doesnt make it so. Im not parroting info I got from someone else with respect to the smith machine. Ive used it for a while now, im comfortable with it, it benifits me.
I noticed that someone made a comment about smith machines being for pussys who are afraid to get under a squat rack. Comments like that do absolutly nothing to add to the debate. In fact they hurt the reputation of the forum and may make some people think twice before participating in threads or becomming a member. You moderators know what im talkin about. Frankley I could care less what anyone else thinks about me, but if people would excersize thier brain and think before they speak, then we could all benifit greater on this forum, and the membership #'s would likely go up.
Ocean Dude, thanks for trying to revive my original question. So far theres not been any real discussion on the original topic. Im glad someone took real interest in the original question.
I noticed that someone made a comment about smith machines being for pussys who are afraid to get under a squat rack. Comments like that do absolutly nothing to add to the debate. In fact they hurt the reputation of the forum and may make some people think twice before participating in threads or becomming a member. You moderators know what im talkin about. Frankley I could care less what anyone else thinks about me, but if people would excersize thier brain and think before they speak, then we could all benifit greater on this forum, and the membership #'s would likely go up.
Ocean Dude, thanks for trying to revive my original question. So far theres not been any real discussion on the original topic. Im glad someone took real interest in the original question.
Something else you can do that I have seen. It's a great physiologica tool that will remove the fear of getting caught in the down position and being unable to raise up when you have no spotter. Put a box or bench at just below or at parallel level and when you come down touch it slightly with your butt so you know you have gone the whole way. If you get in trouble you can always sit it out and call for help or drop the bar to the ground over your back by just leaning back from a seated position (embarassing but effective in a panic).
Jvette73
Registered
Thats what I do when doing squats off the back of my TDS megabench. I squat down till just before my rear hits the pad. i knew if I failed I caold just sit down and dump the weight since I dont use the clamps to hold the weights on. I had to do it once. I sat down and tilted the bar to one side and the weights slid off. As soon as the weights fell off the one side the bar shifted the other way and off went the other side. Made a hell of a racket and the family came runnin down to see what happened. I walked away unscaved.
