Stephen Hawking: There is no heaven; it's a fairy story

[DOMS]

I agree that being Atheist is no guarantee of being non-violent. Crazy people of every ilk. Also that there are far more religious people than Atheist. My point was just that more violence has happened throughout history in the name of religion. If someone broke into our condo and threatened my wife or myself, I would definitely use extreme violence to prevent that from happening. One of the reasons I go to the gun range fairly frequently. I have no problem with violence if it is justified. I guess the problem for some comes in determining what is or isn't justifiable. Lot of very confused folks out there.

My point is that atheists are no more, or less, prone to violence that religious people; and vice versa.

Simply that.

 

[Arnold]

My point is that atheists are no more, or less, prone to violence that religious people; and vice versa.

Simply that.

I know that 9-11 was because of religious beliefs.

 

[DOMS]

I know that 9-11 was because of religious beliefs.

Tho 20 million killed by Stalin wasn't.

 

[BillHicksFan]

Tho 20 million killed by Stalin wasn't.

Both Stalin and Hitler had a moustache but we don't blame the mass murder of innocent people on moustaches.

 

[KelJu]

Looky here, I got me a new pen pal.

hey pussy ...i hope ur mother gets raped in her fukin ass u lil bitch...keep bein a tuff guy on the comp u fukin punk ...if u had any balls u only would say that in person ..ur u fukin lil bitch pussy and i hope nuthin but sufferin for u and ur family u pussy ...u dont like what i have to say then do sumthin about it bitch ....keep tellin ppl they shulda been aborted u cunt ...i hope ur wife gets raped by the same guy who rapes ur mother and both of em get pregnant and keep the baby and u have to look at them till the day u die skumbag...any problems wit me pass on thru and handle it like a man please im beggin u

 

[DOMS]

Both Stalin and Hitler had a moustache but we don't blame the mass murder of innocent people on moustaches.

A mustache is not a defining characteristic of a person. Race, gender, and ideology are such characteristics.

 

[Arnold]

Tho 20 million killed by Stalin wasn't.

I know you're a smart guy, but wow I can't believe you're defending religion.

I ask you this: how many people throughout history, up until today, have been killed in the name of religion and/or god?

 

[BillHicksFan]

A mustache is not a defining characteristic of a person. Race, gender, and ideology are such characteristics.

You believe in God and I do not. Why is it that we can both agree that mass murder is wrong?

That argument is redundant and you know it.

 

[Arnold]

because religion does not work very well when you throw logic into it.

 

[MDR]

My point is that atheists are no more, or less, prone to violence that religious people; and vice versa.

Simply that.

My argument is simply that murder in the name of Religion is far more likely than murder in the name of Atheism. Atheists do not kill in the name of their cause, although they may kill for many other reasons. Stalin did not kill over the idea of Atheism, he killed anyone who he saw as standing in the path of his communist utopia, and more specifically, for personal power. He was a murderer, but it wasn't due to the fact that he didn't believe in god.

 

[MDR]

I know you're a smart guy, but wow I can't believe you're defending religion.

I ask you this: how many people throughout history, up until today, have been killed in the name of religion and/or god?

Exactly

 

[DOMS]

My argument is simply that murder in the name of Religion is far more likely than murder in the name of Atheism. Atheists do not kill in the name of their cause, although they may kill for many other reasons. Stalin did not kill over the idea of Atheism, he killed anyone who he saw as standing in the path of his communist utopia, and more specifically, for personal power. He was a murderer, but it wasn't due to the fact that he didn't believe in god.

But you'll note that someone that didn't believe in god did a whole lot of killing, but since he's not religious, that makes it better.

So, because atheists kill for money or power it somehow better than killing for an ideology? That's just as stupid a thought as that which created hate laws.

That's awesome.

 

[BillHicksFan]

But you'll note that someone that didn't believe in god did a whole lot of killing, but since he's not religious, that makes it better.

So, because atheists kill for money or power it somehow better than killing for an ideology? That's just as stupid a thought as that which created hate laws.

That's awesome.

I amazed at your flawed logic, DOMS. Morality is based on limiting the suffering of other human beings. It has nothing to do with religions.

 

[DOMS]

I amazed at your flawed logic, DOMS. Morality is based on limiting the suffering of other human beings. It has nothing to do with religions.

Nothing to do with religion? The basis of most religions is tending to the needs of people. You can have morality without religion, though.

But yes, keep telling yourself that all religious people lack the high morality that you possess.

 

[MDR]

But you'll note that someone that didn't believe in god did a whole lot of killing, but since he's not religious, that makes it better.

So, because atheists kill for money or power it somehow better than killing for an ideology? That's just as stupid a thought as that which created hate laws.

That's awesome.

Now you are just reading things into what I am saying. I never stated that Stalin was a good guy. He was a ruthless and brutal dictator. I also never argued that killing can be excused unless justified. I've made my points clearly, and I stand by what I said.

 

[MDR]

Nothing to do with religion? The basis of most religions is tending to the needs of people. You can have morality without religion, though.

But yes, keep telling yourself that all religious people lack the high morality that you possess.

Religion is no guarantee of morality, or even decency.

 

[DOMS]

Religion is no guarantee of morality, or even decency.

Neither does atheism, which seems to bother you.

 

[DOMS]

Now you are just reading things into what I am saying. I never stated that Stalin was a good guy. He was a ruthless and brutal dictator. I also never argued that killing can be excused unless justified. I've made my points clearly, and I stand by what I said.

Since you have forgotten what you wrote, here it is again in its entirety (emphasis mine).

My argument is simply that murder in the name of Religion is far more likely than murder in the name of Atheism. Atheists do not kill in the name of their cause, although they may kill for many other reasons. Stalin did not kill over the idea of Atheism, he killed anyone who he saw as standing in the path of his communist utopia, and more specifically, for personal power. He was a murderer, but it wasn't due to the fact that he didn't believe in god.

Stalin is an atheist who killed for power, whereas some religious people killed in the names of their organization, which somehow makes it worse, or in other words, makes Stalin's killing for power a bit more okay.

That is, after all, what you wrote.

 

[MDR]

Neither does atheism, which seems to bother you.

Not in the least.

 

[BillHicksFan]

Nothing to do with religion? The basis of most religions is tending to the needs of people. You can have morality without religion, though.

But yes, keep telling yourself that all religious people lack the high morality that you possess.

No, the basis of most religions was to control the masses. Now we have governments for this and these ancient religions no longer serve their purpose. Sure they have a set of morals to abide by however they always manage to put add-ons to their code of morality that forbids people to do things that are simply none of their business. Telling people what to eat, when to eat, how and who to have sex with all has nothing to do with God and everything to do with mind control. Christians can even be charged with thought crime. You can't escape the wraith of religion if you are a true believer.

Thankfully, it is despite religion that our morality is forever improving as women now have rights, slavery and pedophilia have been forbidden, gays and people who work on the day of the sabbath are no longer stoned to death, disobedient children are no longer murdered, the list goes on and on.
As stated in this thread, there has been far more blood spilled in the name of religion than by the hand of all the mass murders of the modern world and both believers and non believer alike can agree that this shouldn't ever be tolerated again.

I'll go as far as to say that your morality has exceeded the morality of Christian scripture by a long shot. If it hadn't you'd be in jail or on death row.

 

[GearsMcGilf]

The physicist's remarks draw a stark line between the use of God as a metaphor and the belief in an omniscient creator whose hands guide the workings of the cosmos.

Hawkins is clearly not an true Atheist juging by the comment, as he is rejecting the notion of a paternal figure wathing over us and the enforcement of a man made religious belief system. He does acknowledge of an omniscient creator who guides the working of the universe. The latter is not aethiesm, just seeking knowledge without the confines of a man made religion. Atheism is the assumption that the human intellect is is an omniscient creator can not possibly exist because humans can not detect it with our 5 human senses, none of which can be fully explained by modern science to date.

 

[BillHicksFan]

Atheism is the rejection of the belief in any manmade god. ^ To claim ultimate knowledge would be ignorant and non-scientific.

 

[MDR]

Since you have forgotten what you wrote, here it is again in its entirety (emphasis mine).



Stalin is an atheist who killed for power, whereas some religious people killed in the names of their organization, which somehow makes it worse, or in other words, makes Stalin's killing for power a bit more okay.

That is, after all, what you wrote.

What seems to bother you is that your statement does nothing to disprove what I said. I haven't forgotten anything. My claim is that Athiests are capable of violence, but it is seldom related to their Atheistic beliefs. Other motivations separate from their lack of belief in god are directly responsible. On the other hand more people have been killed in the name of god and religion than any other single motivation. I stand by that statement, and nothing you have said, or can say, disproves it.

 

[soxmuscle]

Actually, Kelju IS a tough guy mixed in with a bit of crazy while still remaining cool.

I'm just now catching up.

This is the best description of Kelju ever.

 

[troubador]

I ask you this: how many people throughout history, up until today, have been killed in the name of religion and/or god?

What about in the name of justice, peace and liberty? Have you not realized what type of morality you are adhering to by condemning religion in this regard? I've noticed there seems to be a difference in atheists who condemn religion because of this and those who don't.

 

[soxmuscle]

because religion does not work very well when you throw logic into it.

+1

 

[troubador]

My claim is that Athiests are capable of violence, but it is seldom related to their Atheistic beliefs.

I think this is true basically by definition. Atheism is a lack of belief in god. For the same reason we are not required to prove a negative in logic, atheism at its core has no beliefs which one could be motivated by. In other words, atheism could be thought of as an absence of beliefs and therefore an absence of motives.

It's silly to compare religion and atheism in this regard and I think it's a discredit to those who also boast that science and reason are on their side.

 

[Chubby]

 

[MDR]

I think this is true basically by definition. Atheism is a lack of belief in god. For the same reason we are not required to prove a negative in logic, atheism at its core has no beliefs which one could be motivated by. In other words, atheism could be thought of as an absence of beliefs and therefore an absence of motives.

It's silly to compare religion and atheism in this regard and I think it's a discredit to those who also boast that science and reason are on their side.

I agree 100%. All Atheists I know adhere to the idea that Atheism is by definition a lack of belief in God. You can't possibly kill to defend a belief that by definition is not a belief. The very idea is pretty laughable, really.

 

[LAM]

I know that 9-11 was because of religious beliefs.

several of Bush's professors at Harvard have stated that he would lie frequently, get caught then deny and get very upset when confronted about it by classmates. one of his professors also spoke about how he had a particular distaste for the "poor" and showed no empathy towards them, he stated it was obvious that he was not brought up properly.

there probably aren't too many leaders in the modern world that do not have some issues for even wanting to be in such places of high power but specifically talking about GWB no doubt he displayed many narcissistic traits, not sure about having full blown NPD.

it was an Israel paper that quoted Bush as saying that "Gold told him to strike Al Queda and Saddam". but anyone that has read excerpts from the Defense Planning Guide knows for years they were just looking for an excuse to topple Saddam and to bring democracy to that region they thought for sure since we had the receipts from the chemicals shipped to him that plan would work out. everyone knows that democracy is the pre-requiste to capitalism, and multi-national corps spread like viruses from country to country.

not sure about other countries but in the US when a person of power claims that "god told them" the masses simply except it, Palin also does this when speaking and in her Tweets.