Strength Gain Advice needed pls 8)

[marty 600]

Hiya Guys,

Don't p*ss yourselves.... but....

I have a dance competition in 2 months time. I'd really like to go back to hitting the gym - specifically for the next 2 months - to need to increase my strength for a couple of moves we want to do....

The moves are essentially the same ...kinda... actions as a barbell curl....
(I hold onto both my partners hands, and throw her down into a drop/lean. I then need to pull her up cleanly, ready for the next move etc.)


Ok, besides dance technique for the move etc - The aim here - is strength gain, more body rigidy to take the strain. Any increase in strength will increase my partners confidnece in the move, and the move will look alot better etc....


Help!


Summary:


The goal:
Strength gain, more body rigidy to take the strain, for a "barbell curl" type action


The problem:
1.Only 2 months
2. I'm a 9 st. weedy ectomorph
(Ie I've also been told to avoid "barbell curl" type weight training - I shouldn't isolate singular muscles etc.)


Possible solutions:
1. Just concetrate on Flat Bench Presses, Dead Lights, Back Rows, and barbell Overhead presses?
2. Do "barbell curl" type reps - as only short term thing...



Please advise!
Martin

 

[Yanick]

well in terms of body rigidity, you will need to work your legs because that is where it all starts. strong legs=strong base of support=more 'rigidity'

can't really get too much accomplished in two months, but start lifting and concentrate on the big lifts such as squats, deads, overhead presses, bench presses, rows etc you'll be stronger in two months for sure, but by how much is qeustionable.

 

[marty 600]

Thanks for that Yannick,

Yup, I was wondering if I could just concentrate on Barbell curls only... dosen't work that way huh?!!

...But can I put special emphasis on the biceps and upper body/back for the nxt 2 months for this particular dance event??????


....I fully appreciate that to increase the overall body condition - takes much longer! 2 months may sound a long time.... but not really in the big scheme of things!

 

[CowPimp]

I agree with Yanick. Just throw in a set or two of curls for good measure. You will gain more overall strength by sticking to basic compound stuff. Power from the lower extremities can be transferred to the upper extremities as long as you have a strong core that allows for an efficient (As efficient as possible anyway) transfer of power.

 

[marty 600]

I'm totally taking on board what you guys are saying - and will be hitting the gym with that in mind.

Just had another thought on the subject though. The gym I go to, has this Cables machine, where I should be able to do pull ups hopefully.... simulating the action I need in the dance move - is this an idea? - or just another "muscle isolation" exercise???

 

[Machher]

you definately to do core exercises... im telling you for a fact that you will need to deadlift heavy as hell squat as heavy as you can and bench also.

everything has its place in a routine. But focus on those.

 

[Yanick]

I'm totally taking on board what you guys are saying - and will be hitting the gym with that in mind.

Just had another thought on the subject though. The gym I go to, has this Cables machine, where I should be able to do pull ups hopefully.... simulating the action I need in the dance move - is this an idea? - or just another "muscle isolation" exercise???

what Cowpimp and Machher said is completely true, i just completely forgot to mention that a strong core is just as important for strength/power/balance as that is what transfers power from your hips/knees to your upper body. almost any movement in any sport (dunno if dancing is a sport but it definitely has athletic characteristics) starts at the hips because that is the most powerful joint in the body, from there the power is transferred through the core to your upper body.

your thinking about picking exercises is logical however that is not really how the human body works. basically when training for a sport, you think in terms of skill work and conditioning. skill work is actually practicing whatever you sport you are doing with drills and such and conditioning is what you do in the gym by lifting weights doing cardio etc. so you go to the gym and build whatever facet of strength you might need for your particular sport, IE football linemen need power and strength to be able to hit guys and put em on their ass. they won't try and simulate those movements in the gym with added weight, but they will squat, dead bench etc to build overall strength and power and that will eventually transfer over to whatever their particular position requires of them. i don't know if i explained that clearly but its the best i can come up with at the moment, i'm sick and on lots of dayquil so my mind is really fuzzy right now.

 

[juggernaut]

hey when the girl strokes near your johnson do ya get a boner?

I would actually just go into a strength program, like the one that was listed in Flex for the longest time. Or, just do the basic Strossen (Super Squat) routine.

 

[marty 600]

Thanks for all your advice guys! I really apreciate it!

Tonight the pain starts! 8)

 

[juggernaut]

http://www.ironmagazine.com/article157.html

or the one above.

What was the end result anyway? What's the progra look like? Work and nutritition-wise?

 

[Spitfire]

I dont think bench presses are a grat idea. Mabey very low weight

 

[marty 600]

Hiya Guys,

Last night, I hit the weights for the 1st time in 6wks . Not feeling too bad this morning


So my regime for the next 2 months is:

Sun - Dead lifts, Over Head babell presses..
Monday - Some Stretches etc... (Incl Ab Crunches and press ups)
Tue - Dance practice
wed - Some Stretches etc... (Incl Ab Crunches and press ups)
Thur - Bench Press, and Back rows.....
Fri - Dance night
sat - Chill


Forget muscle mass building for the next 2 months. I'm after strength gain, in a short space of time....

So.... Can I also do normal press ups on "non weight training" days? or is that "overtraining" - if I also aim to do Bench presses every week???

Please advise!

Cheers
Martin

 

[marty 600]

PS:
Yanick,

Apologies for the delay in replies - busy as hell this bank holiday weekend.
How are you feeling now mate?? Hope you are up and about now! 8)

 

[tree]

Get a belt and load it with about 4-45lb plates, then wear it around your shoulders! That's the reason why I'm a super human specimen.

 

[tree]

Buy yourself a pair of CoC #4's and spend day in, day out doing negatives.

 

[marty 600]

Hiya All,

Training is going well. I haven't felt this focused and good in ages... got a goal!


2 questions though:


1. Back Rows - using a EZ bar:
* This looks a Good holistic, Time efficient - way to exercise the back - as one whole unit.
* but is this exercise one to leave until you have had a few months at it?
* (Ie tricky technique, huge amounts of stress on whole body, easy to do back in???)


2. Non weight days - ok to do normal press ups?
Forget muscle mass building for the next 2 months. I'm after strength gain, in a short space of time....

So.... Can I also do normal press ups on "non weight training" days? - as part of my stretching regime (As above).... or is that "overtraining" - if I also aim to do heavy Bench presses once a week???

 

[marty 600]

I'm a skinny Ectomorph, Would I be overworking the legs etc, if I do the following???

Hiya all,

Another question!
Someone in the office said that I should also do Squats, as well as Dead Lifts. Squats apparently - everything goes into it - really good for working the CORE etc....

Bear in mind I'm a skinny Ectomorph, Would I be overworking the legs etc, if I do the following???


Sun
Deadlifts
Barbell o/h Presses

Thur
Squats
Bench Press

 

[P-funk]

get to those squats and deadlifts!! Excellent exercise.

Bent over BB rows are great. Don't leave them though! I have been training for years and still do them. Just make sure that you train with good form and keep that back from rounding. You back will grow stronger as the weight increases.

 

[marty 600]

Thanks for that P-funk!


Are there any Video clips/advice web pages out there for Squats and Bent over rows?



also:
Bent over rows:
Do I use a EZ bar, or normal barbell?

 

[P-funk]

either ez-curl bar, BB or DBs.

exrx.net has videos.

 

[myMUSICveins]

either ez-curl bar, BB or DBs.

exrx.net has videos.

Cool site, thanks.

 

[Yanick]

i'm doing fine now, the dayquil did its job. thanks for asking brother!

a couple of points, besides the ones that Pat covered of course.

-squats are king. you might even want to try zercher squats (hold the barbell in the crook [is that the right word btw?] of your arm). they might be more beneficial as you said you needed strength in your arms for that move that you need to nail.

-i hope for OH presses are standing

-i love that program that you have set up! simple and effective, only thing i would change is to make it more full body 2x/week. for example:

day 1: deads, overhead presses, pull ups/downs
day 2: squats, benches, rows

of course the intensity and volume can be played around with, like deadlift heavy and squat for reps one week then switch up and squat heavy and deadlift for reps the next. stuff like that. remember that you're trying to build strength, so too high rep stuff isn't necessary, your either conditioned enough now (aerobically) or you should just take care of that with cardio or during your dance practices. your in the gym for strength so keep the reps 2-10. No reason for you to really do singles or anything, just risk hurting yourself but strength requires heavy weight, low reps so you can do stuff like 5x5, 3-4 sets of doubles or triples (3x3,4x3 setsxreps). but you seem to have a good grasp on lifting, thats a program that i would do in a heartbeat if i trained for a sport. good luck with your program and competition bro, and don't hesitate to ask more questions we're always here to help, unless we're drunk that is

 

[juggernaut]

forget about the core shit. Squats/Deads will make the entire body stronger and LARGER. Do em dude!!!

 

[marty 600]

More questions 8)

Hiya Guys,

More questions:

1.
"zercher squats" huh? - that sounds muderously good!... I'm giving that a go!
But:
Do I need to strap up the elbows tho? (considering the "heavy" weights I'm hoping to shift)


2. Full Sits ups
* Are these good for non weight training days - for CORE strengthening?
* I'm thinking of buying one of those " stick under door -and hook your feet under" kinda contraptions for the house...
* Adding in Twisting of body on each sit up etc...


Or:
* Are these a no no - full stop? (I'm sure I read somewhere that these are not good - too much strain on lower back etc.... But considering the blood and guts guys do in the gym....)



2. Free weights or machines?
* I take it free weights are better - exercises all the ancillary support muscles?


Gotta go - will post how getting on laters!
Martin

 

[CowPimp]

Zercher squats are a good variation if you can get comfortable doing them. I have tried to do them a few times, but it never felt right. I'll have to give them another go.

Situps are great. I think it is one of the best movements you can do for the rectus abdominus. My other favorite is the hanging leg raise. These shouldn't bother your lower back, especially not if you use no weight.

I think freeweights are king. I think most people's programs should be comprised mostly of freeweight movements. However, a few machine movements added in to bring up weak points and such can't hurt.

 

[marty 600]

Hiya guys,

Glad I keep reading this forum!
Bit concerned about the thread on on "Behind the head - babell presses"....

I'm looking for strength increases. Ie lifting heavy....
Do I definately need to avoid these "Behind the head - babell presses"....???

I do find tho - that I can lift more with "behind the head" presses (Ie all the Shoulder muscles are brought into play)


If I do Dumbells:
Is the Arnie Press any good? Or avoid - as muscle isolation idea again?

I'm weak as hell over my head - the dumbells will go all over the place!
Is it just a case of - good form - but low weight for the time being? Or should I do heavier - barbell - then onto dumbells in a couple of months? (remember Strength ghain is my goal here!)

 

[marty 600]

Another Question Guys:

Remember - Strength Gain is goal here - not body Building muscle mass...

Should I be keeping the Reps and sets down - and go heavy as I can early? (I do loads of warm ups, and also ZERO on bar for a 2 sets to get in the groove of correct form etc.)


Ie. for strength gain only, should I be looking to lift as heavy as I can, with good form, each session - and forget loads of sets?


The reason I ask is:

Last night - Deadlifts
I couldn't get the Reps out on my heaviest weight for the night! - I was knackered by the time I got to that weight!
I tried to get more than 3 Reps out - but started to loose form big time (Rounded back - not good! - Lower back bit sore today...)


Please advise

 

[CowPimp]

If you are looking for strength increases in overhead pressing, then dumbbells are just fine. Mix it up between barbell and dumbbell pressing movements. Also, the Arnold press is certainly a good movement. I stick them in my routine periodically.

Behind the neck presses do not work all of your shoulder muscles. They work the same muscles as pressing in front of the head. It is still just shoulder flexion and elbow extension. The muscles involved don't really change.

You will certainly want to cycle in heavy lifting if your goal is strength. However, lifting purely heavy weights for too long is very taxing on the body, and the central nervous system in particular.

 

[marty 600]

Hiya guys,

Yup, looks like I'm eventually coming around to your way of thinking guys!

As Yannick said
- I'm going to go heavy - keeping the Reps down - but not to Singles.
- O/H presses standing.
- good advice buddy!


Question:
as cow pimp said - not Heavy for too long - Is a Strength push for 4 weeks about right - then changing the loading as Yannick suggested?

 

[marty 600]

Nutrition advice needed

Ok Guys, Moving onto Nutrition

I'm pushed for time normally, and can't eat loads at one time, or shop and prepare gourmet nutritionally balanced stuff. I just want a protein drink kinda situation on top of my joe average diet.

I've been using PROGAIN for ages - taking advantage of the 4 for 3 offer - works out £23 per tub.... not too bad. (I've gain weight from 7st 12 onces (Yup thats right!) to 9st in the space of a year...)

I'll keep using this Progain - to keep the Complex Carb intake up - over this strenuous next 7 weeks


But is there anything else I can take for:


1. Muscle Building
(Creatine loading???)
Multimuscle Cyclone worth it?


2. Keep energy levels up on competition day?
(12:00 to 21:00 - awaiting for my turn - burning nervous energy, explosive energy needed when out there for 12 mins, and the need for concentration levels to stay high all day...)

Multimuscle Viper bars worth it?
(Or does this caffiene loaded stuff make you a sack of useless nerves come game time???)


Hope you can enlighten me - before I splash out!
Martin