Super setting Biceps & Triceps provides amazing growth

[Johnnny]

Super setting biceps & triceps I've found provides amazing growth in size, strength & shape.

The best way is to take one day once a week just for arms if you can spare the time.

I do 3 bicep exercises & 3 tricep exercises each exercise 4 sets each. Totaling the arm workout to 24 sets. 12 sets for biceps & 12 sets for triceps.

First you start with & mass/power building exercise like close-grip super setting with barbell curls using the 45lb bar. 8 sets for the two exercises.

Then a secondary exercise that still builds size/strength/shape such as some form of skull crusher tricep extensions with some form of bicep hammer curls. 8 sets for the two exercises.

Lastly you want to shape the triceps & biceps. The best would be some cable pushdown exercise for triceps & some for of concentration curls or preacher curls for biceps. 8 sets for the two exercises.

This type of arm routine can be done in 50mins if you aren't wasting time talking to ppl. Your arms will be soooo pumped & rock solid by the end of the workout. Plus your strength for the 2 muscles will greatly increase along with shape depending on your diet.

I used to train arms seperately maybe 6yrs ago say chest & biceps, shoulders & triceps or vice versa. My arms grew not to badly & developed power. But after asking around & talking to a couple of local bodybuilders, I was told I should be super setting arms on the same day & just arms. Yes these guys were on roids, but they were doing almost double the 24 sets I'm doing. They said 18-24 sets super setting arms is just the right ammount for a natural person.

Since I've been doing this, my arms have grown in size/strength, & shaped much better. I'm sure that some ppl will argue this, but if they haven't tried training arms in this manner, than they wouldn' know how good it is.

 

[gopro]

I will do this occassionally myself if in a rush or just to change things up. This technique DOES allow for the use of heavier weights as doing a bicep exrercise right after a tricep exercise (or vice versa) fosters faster recovery in the antagonistic muscle and increases nerve force as well.

 

[Johnnny]

Well you are right. I can do this type of arm routine in about 50mins if I don't talk much. It's much better than being in the gym for 1hr30mins or 2hrs which is way too much.

 

[firestorm]

I do this type of workout at least once a month. It is awesome. One other reason you can handle heavier weights throughout the workout is because your giving the bis or tris a little longer break then normal because your doing the 2nd set and then taking a break. The time is takes to do that 2nd set is extra break time for that 1st muscle group.

 

[Johnnny]

Yep, but I do this routine every week. I can't do arms any other day anyway so it's great.

 

[plouffe]

If I'm in a huge rush.. I just go a single pull up ( 30 seconds up, 30 seconds ) Then a 3 Set Drop Set of straight bar curls. Then I go a single of tricep dips ( 30 seconds down, 30 seconds up ) and then a 3 Set Drop Set of over the head extensions.

* Each drop set is to failure with 2-3 additonal forced reps.

 

[Johnnny]

plouffe you should try super setting arms with the type of arm routine I mentioned at the beginning of this thread. You'll find your arms grow much more. I guess you are a football player eh?

 

[gopro]

Well, I wouldn't use this method exclusively as the body will quickly adapt to almost any stress if done over and over. Sometimes it IS better to train a bodypart straight through, but like I said, this is a great method to use on occassion with any pair of antagonistic bodyparts. The great Arnold used this method quite a bit, especially with chest/back and bis/tris.

 

[CowPimp]

Originally posted by gopro
Well, I wouldn't use this method exclusively as the body will quickly adapt to almost any stress if done over and over. Sometimes it IS better to train a bodypart straight through, but like I said, this is a great method to use on occassion with any pair of antagonistic bodyparts. The great Arnold used this method quite a bit, especially with chest/back and bis/tris.

Agreed. For a while I was doing not only biceps and triceps like this, but all the muscle combinations I did in the same workout. I saw some gains, but my gains are much better overall if I do one muscle at a time. It's good for a change, but not as a basis for a program, at least for me. I could see it being particularly beneficial to power lifters because it helps them achieve that full 2+ minutes of rest without wasting too much time.

 

[Johnnny]

Well from my experience your muscles won't adapt to this type of routine. Your muscles adapt to the exercises that is apart of your routine.

If you change each individual exercise every 4 weeks 5 at most, than you will be shocking muscles. Personally I think that you can always super set bi's/tri's just as long as you're changing each exercise. It's the same for every muscle, if you do the same exercise for more than 4 or 5 weeks, you're muscles will adapt to it.

Just keep changing the exercises, no need to permanently stop super setting your arms. I've been doing this for a long time for arms & it's the only thing that works that I've tried.

 

[Mudge]

24 sets to me is still freaky, but I feel my arms are in proportion to the rest of me @ 18 7/8".

Albert Beckles trains arms once every 2 weeks. Honestly, it seems that everyone who says more is better, or less is better, eventually looks about the same. Persistence is the main thing. Sure a program like that might work in the short term which is awesome, but I can't see that tiny little muscles really require that kind of load.

I wouldn't mind a temporary growth spurt, I may try it, but lower volume.

 

[Johnnny]

Well I was only doing 18 sets, 9 for bi's & 9 for tri's. I was doing it for quit awhile. But about 3 weeks ago I started doing 12 sets for bi's & 12 sets for tri's & it seems to be working much better.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by Johnnny
Well from my experience your muscles won't adapt to this type of routine. Your muscles adapt to the exercises that is apart of your routine.

If you change each individual exercise every 4 weeks 5 at most, than you will be shocking muscles. Personally I think that you can always super set bi's/tri's just as long as you're changing each exercise. It's the same for every muscle, if you do the same exercise for more than 4 or 5 weeks, you're muscles will adapt to it.

Just keep changing the exercises, no need to permanently stop super setting your arms. I've been doing this for a long time for arms & it's the only thing that works that I've tried.

I cannot dispute your experience and if this technique works for you on a constant basis, then more power to you.

However, for the majority this is not the best idea. Your muscles can and will adapt to not only exercises used but training protocols as well...this includes supersets, forced reps, dropsets, etc.

There are also benefits to keeping blood flow to one specific area for the duration of the workout, like would be the case training bi's and tri's seperately.

 

[Johnnny]

gopro than what would you suggest?

Chest & then doing 12 sets of biceps, & on shoulder day do 12 sets of triceps afterwards?

In my opinion if you do triceps right after chest, your close-grip bench press will be weak & it's important for building size/power to your triceps?

All I know is that my arms get majorly pumped & rock hard when I do arms this way but I'm not going to argue anyone's methods.

 

[Saturday Fever]

Your muscles exhausting and adapting isn't even the main issue with constant, repetitive training. Your CNS will be done. It will be hosed. Variety is the spice of weightlifting.

Your body will benefit from occassional bouts with overtraining, but to constantly overdo it is asking for a stall in your progress. It's inevitable.

In my opinion if you do triceps right after chest, your close-grip bench press will be weak & it's important for building size/power to your triceps?

OK, firstly, your strength on close-grip bench is really a trivial matter. Who cares? Why do you do close-grip bench? Is it to increase your overall bench strength? Do you use it as an accessory lift to add size to your triceps?

Secondly, size and power are two very different things. Size, in weightlifting, is generally judged by the circumference of a muscle. Power = work/time. Power is the ability to move weight faster. The two are not the same, nor are they trained for in the same way.

My only advice would be to pick your goals. How big in how much times? How much of a strength increase by what date? Figure out what you want, and when, and work towards it. If you fail, you know your idea was wrong.

(all things assuming you have a quality diet of course)

 

[jadakris31]

so does everyone agree supersetting bi/tris is good... but why not do it every arm workout? .. or you should you do supersets one week... then next do all of triceps then hit up the biceps?

 

[CowPimp]

Originally posted by Johnnny
gopro than what would you suggest?

Chest & then doing 12 sets of biceps, & on shoulder day do 12 sets of triceps afterwards?

In my opinion if you do triceps right after chest, your close-grip bench press will be weak & it's important for building size/power to your triceps?

All I know is that my arms get majorly pumped & rock hard when I do arms this way but I'm not going to argue anyone's methods.

I also do my arms on a separate day, but I only do 6 sets for triceps and 5 sets for biceps. They get hit hard enough on back and chest/shoulder day that I find I don't need to do 12 sets each for those muscles. Hell, I only do 12 sets for by back and 14 sets for my legs. I still see nice gains.

I'm glad this works for you, but I'm just saying there are countless ways to increase you arm strength/size. Your routine seems to be very useful for an occasional change in routine, or even as a regular routine for certain people. The only way to know is to try it.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by Johnnny
gopro than what would you suggest?

Chest & then doing 12 sets of biceps, & on shoulder day do 12 sets of triceps afterwards?

In my opinion if you do triceps right after chest, your close-grip bench press will be weak & it's important for building size/power to your triceps?

All I know is that my arms get majorly pumped & rock hard when I do arms this way but I'm not going to argue anyone's methods.

Actually, if your method is working for you, than keep at it! Like I said, I cannot argue your results or experience. I'm sure that there are tons of people out there breaking all "the rules" and growing quite well. I'd love to tell Ronnie Coleman to clean up his form a bit, but how can you argue with HIS results (yes, I know he's a genetic freak and on drugs, but you get the point).

However, for most, I would consider 12 sets for either bis or tris too much. I do maybe 5 sets for bis and 6 for tris at most. I also train them together in the last day of my training cycle. 9 out of 10 times I train my bis first and then tris, but will occassionally superset my bis and tris OR do a bi exercise to competion and then a tri exercise to completion, back and forth until arms are complete (if I do this it will occur during a power week in my P/RR/S protocol).

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by Johnnny
Well I was only doing 18 sets, 9 for bi's & 9 for tri's. I was doing it for quit awhile. But about 3 weeks ago I started doing 12 sets for bi's & 12 sets for tri's & it seems to be working much better.

I've gone that high years ago when I was about 18, worked very well at the time. I think right now I'd be sore for a damn long time without working up to it, as it is my tricpes and nearly everything else is blown out for a few days.

 

[Saturday Fever]

The only way to know if it's working is to set a goal and see how you end up. That's my theory anyways.

 

[Johnnny]

Saturday Fever don't you know how important close-grip bench press is for developing your tricep size & strength? It's very important.

But maybe I was better doing just 9 sets for bi's, & 9 sets for tri's instead of 12 sets for bi's & 12 for tri's. I find that I'm training arms a little too hard so I'll go back to just 18 sets total for arms.

gopro just out of curiosity, how come you consider super setting arms "breaking the rules"? If you are only doing 6 sets for bi's & 6 sets for tri's isn't that only around one or 2 exercises each for bi's & tri's? You need at least 2 seperate bicep exercises & 2 seperate tricep exercises.

 

[Saturday Fever]

I know the importance of close-grip press, I didn't ask that. You keep mixing terms like size and strength and power. All unique in their own right.

Look, if you wanna see if something works, put a measuring tape around your arm right now. Use your routine every week for 4 weeks, and put a measuring tape back on it. If it's grown a notable amount, cool. If it hasn't, you know it doesn't work.

 

[CowPimp]

Originally posted by Johnnny
But maybe I was better doing just 9 sets for bi's, & 9 sets for tri's instead of 12 sets for bi's & 12 for tri's. I find that I'm training arms a little too hard so I'll go back to just 18 sets total for arms.

gopro just out of curiosity, how come you consider super setting arms "breaking the rules"? If you are only doing 6 sets for bi's & 6 sets for tri's isn't that only around one or 2 exercises each for bi's & tri's? You need at least 2 seperate bicep exercises & 2 seperate tricep exercises.

First of all, if 24 total sets is working for you, then don't change it. Just because it doesn't work for other people means nothing. Bodybuilding is all about finding what works for you.

I assume that when Gopro said "breaking the rules" he meant going against standard lifting techniques. The quotes were probably there to emphasize that there really are no rules to the way you can train because of everyone's different genetics. At least this is how I interpreted his statement. Gopro, please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, you don't necessarily need 2 different bicep and tricep exercises because of the peripheral work they get from other lifts. Also, there is nothing set in stone that says you must do 3 sets of every lift. For triceps I do 3 sets of one, 2 sets of another, and one more set of a different lift. It has worked well for me. I based my scheme off Gopro's P/RR/S routine skeleton.

 

[Johnnny]

All I know is doing a mass builder exercise for bi's & tri's, a secondary bicep & tricep exercise, & a shaping bicep & tricep exercise which would be 3 exercises for bi's, & 3 exercises for tri's. But I think I will go back to 18 sets total for arms instead of 24 sets. I've been doing 24 sets for a few weeks & I think it's a tad too much. I'm going back to 18 sets, 9 sets for bi's & 9 sets for tri's.

 

[plouffe]

Originally posted by Johnnny
plouffe you should try super setting arms with the type of arm routine I mentioned at the beginning of this thread. You'll find your arms grow much more. I guess you are a football player eh?

Yeah, I play football.

 

[Johnnny]

I used to play running back. I was 227lbs (before my hyper thyroid problems caused by ephedrine/ephedra supplements with no prior thyroid condition) at 5ft9 with descent definition & strength/power & I ran the 40yard dash in about 4.4-4.5 or so give or take a few .seconds.

 

[gopro]

-When I said "breaking the rules" I meant that some people can grossly overtrain, but for them, it works...or some people can cheat on every exercise, but for them, it works...or some people can not even use a set program and train whatever they feel like on any given day, and for them, it works...those are just some examples of how some people may go against traditional bodybuilding dogma, yet still succeed (ONLY QUESTION IS...IF THEY DID FOLLOW THE RULES, COULD THEY HAVE BEEN EVEN BETTER...BUT I DIGRESS).

-As far as exercises, I usually do 3-4 per bodypart, but may only do 1-2 sets per exercise (in a sense this breaks the traditional "rule" of 3 sets per exercise).

 

[Johnnny]

Gopro you said "As far as exercises, I usually do 3-4 per bodypart, but may only do 1-2 sets per exercise (in a sense this breaks the traditional "rule" of 3 sets per exercise)."

That seems to be working very well for. For me I find I need more, if I do less than 6 sets total for biceps & 6 sets total for triceps than I don't really feel my arms working as well with 6 or 9 sets totaling 12 or 18 sets 3 exercises each.

But I will cut back down to doing 3 exercises for biceps 9 sets total & 3 exercises for triceps 9 sets totaling 18 sets. 12 sets for each totaling 24 sets for arms I think is too much. I've only been doing that for 2 or 3 weeks.

For back including hyper extensions or deadlifts I need to do 20 sets 6 exercises 3 sets each to really feel my back working.

For chest I need to do 4 exercises either 3 or 4 sets each to really get it working totaling either 12 or 16 sets.

Shoulders I need to do 2 pressing exercises 4 sets each along with 4 sets of side raises & 4 sets of rear delts followed by 8 sets for traps 2 exercises. Totaling 16 sets, but I count more the pressing exercises as the main part of the shoulder workout.

Legs I need 2 quad exercises 4 sets each & 2 hamstring exercises 4 sets each, calves I need 2 exercises 4 sets each.

To some this maybe over training, maybe I am a little. I train 5 days a week. But this is what I need to grow & get stronger. I'd still like to hear some input.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by Johnnny
Gopro you said "As far as exercises, I usually do 3-4 per bodypart, but may only do 1-2 sets per exercise (in a sense this breaks the traditional "rule" of 3 sets per exercise)."

That seems to be working very well for. For me I find I need more, if I do less than 6 sets total for biceps & 6 sets total for triceps than I don't really feel my arms working as well with 6 or 9 sets totaling 12 or 18 sets 3 exercises each.

But I will cut back down to doing 3 exercises for biceps 9 sets total & 3 exercises for triceps 9 sets totaling 18 sets. 12 sets for each totaling 24 sets for arms I think is too much. I've only been doing that for 2 or 3 weeks.

For back including hyper extensions or deadlifts I need to do 20 sets 6 exercises 3 sets each to really feel my back working.

For chest I need to do 4 exercises either 3 or 4 sets each to really get it working totaling either 12 or 16 sets.

Shoulders I need to do 2 pressing exercises 4 sets each along with 4 sets of side raises & 4 sets of rear delts followed by 8 sets for traps 2 exercises. Totaling 16 sets, but I count more the pressing exercises as the main part of the shoulder workout.

Legs I need 2 quad exercises 4 sets each & 2 hamstring exercises 4 sets each, calves I need 2 exercises 4 sets each.

To some this maybe over training, maybe I am a little. I train 5 days a week. But this is what I need to grow & get stronger. I'd still like to hear some input.

Some people have better recovery ability than others, and you may be one of them. Personally, I hit each set so hard, with such focus and intensity, that I could not even imagine doing more than say 7 sets for quads or 8 for lats or 7 for chest, etc. I am so pumped and spent after these sets that I know the job is done and that if I do any more I will cross over into overtraining land.

I have always been a huge proponent of "train hard, don't train long."

Again, if you are growing from what you do, please continue. Myself, over the years have slowly moved down in total sets until I reached the point I'm at now, of which I've stayed with for the last 4-5 years or so. I'm sure your training will evolve more as you go along.

 

[Johnnny]

gopro when I used to do only 3 exrcises 4 sets each for chest, my chest would hardly feel a good sore for more than half a day. Same goes for when only used to do 12 or 15 sets for back, it would hardly feel worked the next day. Even with 18 total sets super setting bi's & tri's my arms aren't all that sore for very long but I know I'm hitting my arms hard enough as the following week I'm able to lift more on each individual exercise.

So for legs would only 4 sets of squats & 4 sets of stiff leg deadlifts be enough for legs?

Is the best way to tell if you're over training that you're not as strong as you normally are &/or feeling tired? Is it also possible to be overtraining just one or 2 muscles out of 5 days?