The greatest Country in the world

[min0 lee]

try to keep a sense of humor when discussing on this forum. you'll go crazy if you don't. I learned that a long time ago.

It works in real life also.

 

[min0 lee]

By the way, prefacing everything with "True Story" really makes you look like a moron.

I have personally spoken to him and he's a nice educated guy who likes to have fun on the net.

It's just the net, no bodily harm was done...

 

[Decker]

....only reason why the US is the US is because the british empire was spread to thin with wars in Africa, India, and I think China too when they went to war for independence.

Britain was very weak coming out of WW2 which gave the US the opportunity to become the worlds new superpower, britain just didnt have the resources to compete.....

I agree with this that the US was not a world superpower until the conclusion of WWII and the other superpowers were in no position to challenge the US's designs.

I like the US. It's my home. But due to many complex factors that appreciation is best embodied by the Jeffersonian quote, "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." To me, that means always be wary of one's government and critical. Always be critical to improve what is and do not trust the better angels of our elected leaders.

That said, I wouldn't mind living in Canada only b/c, living in WI, I already know what the weather's like. Isn't weed legal there too? That's one more checkmark on the plus side.

 

[NeilPearson]

I agree with this that the US was not a world superpower until the conclusion of WWII and the other superpowers were in no position to challenge the US's designs.

I like the US. It's my home. But due to many complex factors that appreciation is best embodied by the Jeffersonian quote, "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." To me, that means always be wary of one's government and critical. Always be critical to improve what is and do not trust the better angels of our elected leaders.

That said, I wouldn't mind living in Canada only b/c, living in WI, I already know what the weather's like. Isn't weed legal there too? That's one more checkmark on the plus side.

Nope weed is not legal there.

 

[Decker]

Nope weed is not legal there.

Then fuck it...what good is Canada? No weed, no deal. What the hell was I thinking? "Canada"...that even sounds made up.

 

[GFR]

Anyone who can't appreciate how good they have it here should move elsewhere. If you think it's better in Canada, move there. Insulting the place you choose to live in, and are reaping benefits from, is the worst kind of hypocrisy.

It isn't disagreeing with some political aspect, it's saying things like "America is the most evil and arrogant nation in the history of the world." If you believe that, yet still choose to live amongs us arrogant evildoers, and support our evil arrogant government, you are far worse than those you accuse of being evil, and whatever else. In your own mind you know it's wrong, yet you still choose to be a part of it.

Nothing you have EVER said has been constructive. You post pictures of the victims of war (Where were you when Saddam was doing that shit on purpose?). You don't disagree, you spew hate. Nothing you have ever said could be construed as a rational argument, you haven't even made an argument! You just bitch and moan, you have no solution, you have no alternative, you whine and complain mindlessly.



By the way, prefacing everything with "True Story" really makes you look like a moron.

True story, you are a slave and the best bootlicker I know.

 

[CowPimp]

You think these people are trying to improve the country by bashing it? You think calling the USA the most evil and arrogant nation in history is suggesting improvements?

By the way, you share the trait of hypocrisy with the ungrateful human garbage bashing this coutnry. I should "Get the fuck out" because telling someone to get out is the wrong attitude? Right. I guess we're wrong together then huh.

I don't really care if you leave. I was obviously just saying that for effect. The point is that this country is not perfect. If people are angry, then they are allowed to voice their opinion; you have to deal with it and so do I. If you think this is the greatest country in the world without competition, then you are delusional, ignorant, or both. Fine if think it is the greatest nation, but there are certainly other nations that will give it a run for its money.

The other problem with telling people to move is that it's not just that simple. I'm broke as shit. I don't have the money to just move out of the country, but I am sure as Hell considering it. It just simply isn't feasible at this time. There are probably a lot of people who share the same problem.

My beef is with the government, not the people. There are a lot of morons here, but that's the case everywhere. It is my opinion that this country supports and conducts acts of terrorism, but what can I really do about it without devoting my life to such a cause? Even then it will probably do nothing.

 

[Dale Mabry]

What is interesting to me is that Republicans seem to be distancing themselves from Bush, especially with this election year. Should be interesting what these traitors have to say. I assume they are traitors because they disagree with the president on such things as the ports deal that went sour.

 

[Decker]

...It is my opinion that this country supports and conducts acts of terrorism, but what can I really do about it without devoting my life to such a cause? Even then it will probably do nothing.

It's not just your opinion my friend:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6802629/site/newsweek/

Reagan utilized these terrorist tactics (that Bush is using) in El Salvador. The US does not acknowledge the jurisdiction of the World Court b/c we are #1 on the docket for terrorist activity in Nicaragua (we mined their harbors). This is why Hussein is on trial in Iraq instead of before the World Court--the US controls the Iraqi courts but not the World Court.

The Archie Bunker/US does no wrong mentality is counterproductive. No one wins through sycophantic myopia.

What can we do? The public will can still be known. Letters, protests, etc. It's a cumulative thing. Every time I think of giving up, I think of the bastards in the current administration that flout the law and send other people's children to die for personal gain and power aggrandizement.

Unfortunately, propaganda works. Wave the flag, thump the bible and point the accusatory finger at opponents...that recipe for oppression is very effective. Remember, it's the interests of a small elitest/wealthy few versus the common good.

 

[BigDyl]

True Story, US is the biggest terrorist nation in the world.

 

[BigDyl]

I don't really care if you leave. I was obviously just saying that for effect. The point is that this country is not perfect. If people are angry, then they are allowed to voice their opinion; you have to deal with it and so do I. If you think this is the greatest country in the world without competition, then you are delusional, ignorant, or both. Fine if think it is the greatest nation, but there are certainly other nations that will give it a run for its money.

The other problem with telling people to move is that it's not just that simple. I'm broke as shit. I don't have the money to just move out of the country, but I am sure as Hell considering it. It just simply isn't feasible at this time. There are probably a lot of people who share the same problem.

My beef is with the government, not the people. There are a lot of morons here, but that's the case everywhere. It is my opinion that this country supports and conducts acts of terrorism, but what can I really do about it without devoting my life to such a cause? Even then it will probably do nothing.

We gotta meet up before you go.

 

[ALBOB]

True Story, US is the biggest terrorist nation in the world.

Not true. If it's THEM doing it to US, they're terrorists. If it's US doing it to THEM, we're liberators. Yaaaaaaaaay US.

 

[lnvanry]

Not true. If it's THEM doing it to US, they're terrorists. If it's US doing it to THEM, we're liberators. Yaaaaaaaaay US.

good thing were not them

 

[GFR]

True Story, US is the biggest terrorist nation in the world.

I agree 100%, and we have the best propaganda system in the world also.

 

[lnvanry]

propaganda is just another word for persuasion.

 

[GFR]

propaganda is just another word for persuasion.

Propaganda within Nazi Germany was taken to a new and frequently perverse level. Hitler was very aware of the value of good propaganda and he appointed Joseph Goebbels as head of propaganda.​

Propaganda is the art of persuasion - persuading others that your 'side of the story' is correct. Propaganda might take the form of persuading others that your military might is too great to be challenged; that your political might within a nation is too great or popular to challenge etc. In Nazi Germany, Dr Joseph Goebbels was in charge of propaganda. Goebbels official title was Minister of Propaganda and National Enlightenment.​

As Minister of Enlightenment, Goebbels had two main tasks:​

• to ensure nobody in Germany could read or see anything that was hostile or damaging to the Nazi Party.​
• to ensure that the views of the Nazis were put across in the most persuasive manner possible. ​

To ensure success, Goebbels had to work with the SS and Gestapo and Albert Speer. The former hunted out those who might produce articles defamatory to the Nazis and Hitler while Speer helped Goebbels with public displays of propaganda.​

To ensure that everybody thought in the correct manner, Goebbels set up the Reich Chamber of Commerce in 1933. This organisation dealt with literature, art, music, radio, film, newspapers etc. To produce anything that was in these groups, you had to be a member of the Reich Chamber. The Nazi Party decided if you had the right credentials to be a member. Any person who was not admitted was not allowed to have any work published or performed. Disobedience brought with it severe punishments. As a result of this policy, Nazi Germany introduced a system of censorship. You could only read, see and hear what the Nazis wanted you to read, see and hear. In this way, if you believed what you were told, the Nazi leaders logically assumed that opposition to their rule would be very small and practiced only by those on the very extreme who would be easy to catch.​

Hitler came to power in January 1933. By May 1933, the Nazi Party felt sufficiently strong to publicly demonstrate where their beliefs were going when Goebbels organised the first of the infamous book burning episodes. Books that did not match the Nazi ideal was burnt in public - loyal Nazis ransacked libraries to remove the 'offending' books. "Where one burns books, one eventually burns people" commented the author Brecht. ​

The same approach was used in films. The Nazis controlled film production. Films released to the public concentrated on certain issues : the Jews; the greatness of Hitler; the way of life for a true Nazi especially children, and as World War Two approached, how badly Germans who lived in countries in Eastern Europe were treated. Leni Riefenstahl was given a free hand in producing Nazi propaganda films. A young film producer, she had impressed Hitler with her ability. It was Riefenstahl who made "Triumph of Will" - considered one of the greatest of propaganda films despite its contents. ​

What was seen in the cinemas was controlled. "Hitlerjunge Quex" was made in 1933. This film told the story of a boy brought up in a communist family in Germany who broke away from this background, joined the Hitler Youth and was murdered by the Communists in Germany for doing so. "The Eternal Jew" was a film that vilified the Jews - comparing the Jews in Europe to a hoard of rats, spreading disease etc. "Tarzan" films were banned because the Nazis frowned on so little clothing being worn especially by women. One film that celebrated the might of the German Navy was not screened as it showed a drunken German sailor. However, the cinemas were not full of serious films with a political message. Goebbels ordered that many comedies should be made to give Germany a 'lighter' look.​

The ensure that everybody could hear Hitler speak, Goebbels organised the sale of cheap radios. these were called the "People's Receiver" and they cost only 76 marks. A smaller version cost just 35 marks. Goebbels believed that if Hitler was to give speeches, the people should be able to him. Loud speakers were put up in streets so that people could not avoid any speeches by the Fuhrer. Cafes and other such properties were ordered to play in public speeches by Hitler.​

Goebbels and his skill at masterminding propaganda is best remembered for his night time displays at Nuremberg. Here, he and Speer, organised rallies that were designed to show to the world the might of the Nazi nation. In August of each year, huge rallies were held at Nuremberg. Arenas to hold 400,000 people were built. In the famous night time displays, 150 search lights surrounded the main arena and were lit up vertically into the night sky. Their light could be seen over 100 kilometres away in what a British politician, Sir Neville Henderson, called a "cathedral of light". ​

Part of the Nuremberg Stadium's "Cathedral of Light"
​

Why was so much effort put into propaganda?​

At no time up to 1933, did the Nazi Party win a majority of votes at elections. They may have been the largest political party in 1933, but they did not have a majority of support among the people. Therefore, those who had supported the Nazis needed to be informed on how correct their choice was with an emphasis on the strength of the party and the leadership. Those who opposed the Nazi Party had to be convinced that it was pointless continuing with their opposition. The fact that Goebbels had so much power is indicative of how important Hitler thought it was to ensure that the people were won over or intimidated into accepting Nazi rule. ​

 

[DOMS]

Cut-and-paste is almost as good as writing something yourself...

 

[GFR]

Cut-and-paste is almost as good as writing something yourself...

There is a time for everything son.

Let go of your hate and embrace life.

 

[min0 lee]

Then fuck it...what good is Canada? No weed, no deal. What the hell was I thinking? "Canada"...that even sounds made up.

 

[min0 lee]

I see nothing wrong with being critical of your own country, that's what makes it so great....we have the freedom to do so.

I bet have of these guys getting mad at those who complain about this country drive foreign cars, support out sourcing and whatever else.

 

[GFR]

I see nothing wrong with being critical of your own country, that's what makes it so great....we have the freedom to do so.

I bet have of these guys getting mad at those who complain about this country drive foreign cars, support out sourcing and whatever else.

 

[lnvanry]

I see nothing wrong with being critical of your own country, that's what makes it so great....we have the freedom to do so.

I bet have of these guys getting mad at those who complain about this country drive foreign cars, support out sourcing and whatever else.

I have a foreign car and I support outsourcing....hopefully getting an overseas assignment in a few years.

 

[lnvanry]

Propaganda within Nazi Germany was taken to a new and frequently perverse level. Hitler was very aware of the value of good propaganda and he appointed Joseph Goebbels as head of propaganda.​

Propaganda is the art of persuasion - persuading others that your 'side of the story' is correct. Propaganda might take the form of persuading others that your military might is too great to be challenged; that your political might within a nation is too great or popular to challenge etc. In Nazi Germany, Dr Joseph Goebbels was in charge of propaganda. Goebbels official title was Minister of Propaganda and National Enlightenment.​

As Minister of Enlightenment, Goebbels had two main tasks:​

• to ensure nobody in Germany could read or see anything that was hostile or damaging to the Nazi Party.​
• to ensure that the views of the Nazis were put across in the most persuasive manner possible. ​

To ensure success, Goebbels had to work with the SS and Gestapo and Albert Speer. The former hunted out those who might produce articles defamatory to the Nazis and Hitler while Speer helped Goebbels with public displays of propaganda.​

To ensure that everybody thought in the correct manner, Goebbels set up the Reich Chamber of Commerce in 1933. This organisation dealt with literature, art, music, radio, film, newspapers etc. To produce anything that was in these groups, you had to be a member of the Reich Chamber. The Nazi Party decided if you had the right credentials to be a member. Any person who was not admitted was not allowed to have any work published or performed. Disobedience brought with it severe punishments. As a result of this policy, Nazi Germany introduced a system of censorship. You could only read, see and hear what the Nazis wanted you to read, see and hear. In this way, if you believed what you were told, the Nazi leaders logically assumed that opposition to their rule would be very small and practiced only by those on the very extreme who would be easy to catch.​

Hitler came to power in January 1933. By May 1933, the Nazi Party felt sufficiently strong to publicly demonstrate where their beliefs were going when Goebbels organised the first of the infamous book burning episodes. Books that did not match the Nazi ideal was burnt in public - loyal Nazis ransacked libraries to remove the 'offending' books. "Where one burns books, one eventually burns people" commented the author Brecht. ​

The same approach was used in films. The Nazis controlled film production. Films released to the public concentrated on certain issues : the Jews; the greatness of Hitler; the way of life for a true Nazi especially children, and as World War Two approached, how badly Germans who lived in countries in Eastern Europe were treated. Leni Riefenstahl was given a free hand in producing Nazi propaganda films. A young film producer, she had impressed Hitler with her ability. It was Riefenstahl who made "Triumph of Will" - considered one of the greatest of propaganda films despite its contents. ​

What was seen in the cinemas was controlled. "Hitlerjunge Quex" was made in 1933. This film told the story of a boy brought up in a communist family in Germany who broke away from this background, joined the Hitler Youth and was murdered by the Communists in Germany for doing so. "The Eternal Jew" was a film that vilified the Jews - comparing the Jews in Europe to a hoard of rats, spreading disease etc. "Tarzan" films were banned because the Nazis frowned on so little clothing being worn especially by women. One film that celebrated the might of the German Navy was not screened as it showed a drunken German sailor. However, the cinemas were not full of serious films with a political message. Goebbels ordered that many comedies should be made to give Germany a 'lighter' look.​

The ensure that everybody could hear Hitler speak, Goebbels organised the sale of cheap radios. these were called the "People's Receiver" and they cost only 76 marks. A smaller version cost just 35 marks. Goebbels believed that if Hitler was to give speeches, the people should be able to him. Loud speakers were put up in streets so that people could not avoid any speeches by the Fuhrer. Cafes and other such properties were ordered to play in public speeches by Hitler.​

Goebbels and his skill at masterminding propaganda is best remembered for his night time displays at Nuremberg. Here, he and Speer, organised rallies that were designed to show to the world the might of the Nazi nation. In August of each year, huge rallies were held at Nuremberg. Arenas to hold 400,000 people were built. In the famous night time displays, 150 search lights surrounded the main arena and were lit up vertically into the night sky. Their light could be seen over 100 kilometres away in what a British politician, Sir Neville Henderson, called a "cathedral of light". ​

Part of the Nuremberg Stadium's "Cathedral of Light"
​

Why was so much effort put into propaganda?​

At no time up to 1933, did the Nazi Party win a majority of votes at elections. They may have been the largest political party in 1933, but they did not have a majority of support among the people. Therefore, those who had supported the Nazis needed to be informed on how correct their choice was with an emphasis on the strength of the party and the leadership. Those who opposed the Nazi Party had to be convinced that it was pointless continuing with their opposition. The fact that Goebbels had so much power is indicative of how important Hitler thought it was to ensure that the people were won over or intimidated into accepting Nazi rule. ​

looks like he was pretty good at persuading.

That charisma that was coined in Germany by the Nazis in now looked down upon. We still value charisma in our politicians, but in Germany its a big no no...There is also no patriotism either...no saluting...no hand over your heart during the anthem...anything that is patriotic/nationalistic is uncommon and looked down upon in Germany these days.

 

[min0 lee]

I have a foreign car and I support outsourcing....hopefully getting an overseas assignment in a few years.

So you think sending work to other countries is a good idea?

Some of these jobs they are sending overseas can be done by people who are retired but need or want another check.
I really don't think the day I retire my 401K will let me live comfortably and the way I see things we may not even have Social Security in the future.

 

[lnvanry]

oops double post

 

[lnvanry]

So you think sending work to other countries is a good idea?

Some of these jobs they are sending overseas can be done by people who are retired but need or want another check.
I really don't think the day I retire my 401K will let me live comfortably and the way I see things we may not even have Social Security in the future.

The goal of American/British business is corporate wealth...ie shareholder wealth. Cutting costs through outsourcing is one of the several ways to do this. As heartless as it sounds, it's not a legal nor an ethical repsonsibilty to provide for American workers who costs much more...

THis is a natural process. Besides, the bulk of outsourcing has already occured...meaning the losses in the automotive/silicon/and other vaious manufacturing industries has been done. In other words, its not going to get much worse. The only industries I can see that haven't proceeded to substantial outsourcing is the service sector. that's starting to change with India; however, its just the nature of American business.

There will always be a portion of manufacturing that will never leave the country (integral components such as engines/innovative R&D/goods that are only sold in the US like Hummers and military equipment).

Corporate Headquaters will always remain here in the US too

 

[TOMO]

First I do think the USA is number one, go to Australia I think even buying caffeine is illegal. What about Canada full of social programs. Many of these countries dont work as hard as americans,,,look at France last year they almost over threw the govt because they wanted people to work 40 hours as oppossed to the French work week which is 35 hrs.

 

[MyK]

The goal of American/British business is corporate wealth...ie shareholder wealth. Cutting costs through outsourcing is one of the several ways to do this. As heartless as it sounds, it's not a legal nor an ethical repsonsibilty to provide for American workers who costs much more...

THis is a natural process. Besides, the bulk of outsourcing has already occured...meaning the losses in the automotive/silicon/and other vaious manufacturing industries has been done. In other words, its not going to get much worse. The only industries I can see that haven't proceeded to substantial outsourcing is the service sector. that's starting to change with India; however, its just the nature of American business.

There will always be a portion of manufacturing that will never leave the country (integral components such as engines/innovative R&D/goods that are only sold in the US like Hummers and military equipment).

Corporate Headquaters will always remain here in the US too

I agree with everything except the last sentence. more and more corporations are becoming global and then turning transnational companies. as the world ecomony becomes global so will big business! and therefore the US headquarters will not remain in the US, but will become global. Like you said "its only natural"

 

[min0 lee]

I believe I get better service from an American than I would from someone in India, nothing personnel against them but I can't understand them.

This Country is growing and I don't think we'll there will be enough work in Corporate headquarters.

 

[kbm8795]

bulk of the work? you mean like handing over whole countries to hitlers army without a fight. or the fact the french had the largest retreating army in the history of the world. why was it winston churchhill said he had his greatest night of sleep the day he heard of pearl harbor? oh yeah, because then he knew america would be joining the war with the allies. before d-day how well did the all british invasion of france go? this is not american pride from a poor public school system showing. this is just fact.

I hate to disappoint you, dude. . .but the United States had over two years to rearm while the rest of the world was engulfed in war - and still we weren't prepared, thanks in large part to the shrill isolationist policies of Republicans at the time. And we had no problem getting our butts kicked out of whole countries during the first six months of the war, including our own possessions, like the Phillippines, some of our South Pacific islands - and there was real fear that the Japs were going to invade Hawaii. We even had two Aleutian Islands invaded and occupied - and we couldn't do crap to stop them. The only protection we had was those two oceans - and even then, the Japs sent over a few incendiary balloons that started some fires in California. We were in a panic mode, thinking as irrationally as our current Administration. We threw everyone with slanted eyes into concentration camps, took their businesses and yet let every German-American and Italian-American roam free around the country.

Hell, the Canadians and the Aussies were in the war for two years before Pearl Harbor pulled us into the conflict. Canadians and Aussies were serving in every theater of battle, from Africa to Britain to the South Pacific and India. In the European theater, America's contribution was the ability to manufacture goods from a location that couldn't be easily bombed, while the Brits and the Russians took all the major hits from the Germans and Italians. Until the end of 1942, the Soviets fought the brunt of the land war, suffering more casualities than the other Allies combined, who kept themselves bottled up in North Africa. We helped save the Brits from starving, but so did the Canadians - and we were damned lucky the Japs didn't take Hawaii and Alaska, because this country would have been in an absolute panic if we had been bombed.

We were totally unprepared. . .parking most of the Pacific fleet in Pearl Harbor (except the carriers). No reinforcements available for the American troops who were supposed to protect the Phillippines. Very few planes to defend Hawaii and most of them were shot up on the ground.