To Juice or not to Juice...

[Leon77]

Steroids are in almost in every sport. However, the use of steroids is incredibly bad. Never, ever, take them. These athletes who do, they will end up with severe health problems. everyone has heart problems, a local kid I know has nasty protein deposits in his arms, and it screws up your bones and ligments. I have seen people in my gym get injured from steroid use (your muscles develop, but your ligaments and joints can't keep up with muscles, i.e. this guy I saw benching 395 dropped the weight on his chest because his left shoulder dislocated). Plus the side-effects of steroids are permanent and mostly irreversible, yet the strength you get is lost when you cycle off. So steroid use has temporary benefits, but in the end you are only screwing yourself over.

average people on the street shouldnt be needing steroids

 

[Tha Don]

Steroids are in almost in every sport. However, the use of steroids is incredibly bad. Never, ever, take them. These athletes who do, they will end up with severe health problems. everyone has heart problems, a local kid I know has nasty protein deposits in his arms, and it screws up your bones and ligments. I have seen people in my gym get injured from steroid use (your muscles develop, but your ligaments and joints can't keep up with muscles, i.e. this guy I saw benching 395 dropped the weight on his chest because his left shoulder dislocated). Plus the side-effects of steroids are permanent and mostly irreversible, yet the strength you get is lost when you cycle off. So steroid use has temporary benefits, but in the end you are only screwing yourself over.

average people on the street shouldnt be needing steroids

i think your confuzing 'use' with 'abuse', all of those effects (along with 99% of other sides effects from steroids) can be minimised if used correctly and with the proper precautions taken, 1-2 sensible cycles a year with precautions and blood testing ain't gonna cause any of that rubbish your talking about

damm for your sake i really hope some of the other guys like flex and gr8 don't read this thread

 

[musclepump]

This Leon really is a cunt!

He has to be an old-timer trying to rub us the wrong way; no one is THIS stupid!

 

[Leon77]

This Leon really is a cunt!

He has to be an old-timer trying to rub us the wrong way; no one is THIS stupid!

why am i a cunt- just because i aint agreeing with you- i call it how i see it- i have trained with gold winning olympic athletes and even though i aint a expert in dosage and technical use, i have seen first hand the side effects of both steroid ABUSE and USE that was classed as "safe". plus i have seen with me own eyes many times, athletes losing gains in appearance, strength and power when cycling off gear, some guys end up in bad physical condition in terms of apearance and peformance when cycling off, even when done correctly, which can lead to steroid abuse

i dont buy this theory that used correctly steroids are fine for anyone, its not peoples bodys react differently

 

[LAM]

why am i a cunt- just because i aint agreeing with you- i call it how i see it- i have trained with gold winning olympic athletes and even though i aint a expert in dosage and technical use, i have seen first hand the side effects of both steroid ABUSE and USE that was classed as "safe". plus i have seen with me own eyes many times, athletes losing gains in appearance, strength and power when cycling off gear, some guys end up in bad physical condition in terms of apearance and peformance when cycling off, even when done correctly, which can lead to steroid abuse

i dont buy this theory that used correctly steroids are fine for anyone, its not peoples bodys react differently

didn't you say in a previous thread that you have only been training with weights for 3 years ? I've been trainining with weights for over 20 years and have seen PLENTY of people use steroids correctly with out injury and with out side effects.

 

[musclepump]

I've trained with Olympic gold medalists from Sydney and Athens, they're all fine. So what? I recently consulted with a group of a dozen Olympians from 1968-current about supplementation and steroid use in sports; users and abusers in the group, no health problems to report.

You're a cunt because you think you are the say-all-do-all of gear. You're not, you're stupid. You don't know a damn thing factually about what you're talking about. So you hung out with some people who fucked up, or some people who were genetically prone to disfunction, I'm sorry. But that doesn't mean steroids are bad.

Uh oh, you'd better stop drinking that water because it might have fluoride or chlorine in it, and I've seen people die from poisioning. Oh no! RUN! We'd all better stick to beer... oh wait, we can't because... well, you get the picture.

 

[vegman]

What was the point of this tread?

 

[gococksDJS]

your a nobody, "a bum" who has never achieved nothing, you write all these fancy write outs saying steroids are harmless and great and I've trained with "Olympic gold medalists from Sydney and Athens" is bullshit, you wouldnt last 1min in 400m interval sprints,you show me 50 people who steroids have worked out good for them, i can show you 50 cases where its not worked out, even when used correctly, dwain chambers ruined his carear when useing steroids- it infact slowed him down over the 100m - bloated him all up and now hes banned i know people who been on steroids before and they have all lost the gains when off cylces, and end up in worse condition then ever - bloated mid section, water retention, steroids are a quick fix but it all falls flat later down the road, people like you think they fitness gurus who think they know it all but know fuck all, why would anyone listen to you and that picture of you and that silly pose of your arm is doin my nut.

What is your point with all this mindless babble? Do you for some reason think we all need a father figure telling us that steroids will kill us all. All you are doing is taking up space where useful information could be posted. No one listens to your post because all you do is state opinions and talk like steroid use and abuse are the same thing. Why don't you save your breath, because your full of shit and don't know what you are talking about. Why don't you run along now son and leave the anabolic section to the adults. And don't drink mellow yellow because yellow-5 shrinks your dick.

 

[Leon77]

What is your point with all this mindless babble? Do you for some reason think we all need a father figure telling us that steroids will kill us all. All you are doing is taking up space where useful information could be posted. No one listens to your post because all you do is state opinions and talk like steroid use and abuse are the same thing. Why don't you save your breath, because your full of shit and don't know what you are talking about. Why don't you run along now son and leave the anabolic section to the adults. And don't drink mellow yellow because yellow-5 shrinks your dick.

well i have alot of replies so people are reading it, i dont know what i am talkin about and u dont know what your talkin about, whats this tough guy talk?

 

[gococksDJS]

well i have alot of replies so people are reading it, i dont know what i am talkin about and u dont know what your talkin about, i could take you down easy in a 1 on 1 so whats with your tough guy talk?

What kind of hard ass does it take to say shit like this over the computer? Do you think we will ever see each other? The fact that you say you can take me down when you know we will never meet just shows your level of immaturity and how big of a pussy you are. You know nothing about me, so trying this hard ass "Dude, I would kick your ass" attitude is very comical. You provide no useful imput on the board except to try to start arguments with your stupid posts, so why don't you run along and educate yourself before preaching about something. Or are you an endocrinologist with a PhD in biochemistry and physiology? I bet you are Mr. Hardass, so go ahead and feed us some more bullshit. Well guess what, ive been to the moon.

 

[musclepump]

your a nobody, "a bum" who has never achieved nothing, you write all these fancy write outs saying steroids are harmless and great and I've trained with "Olympic gold medalists from Sydney and Athens" is bullshit, you wouldnt last 1min in 400m interval sprints

If you had any idea of the athletic accomplishments I've made, without steroids, you'd shit your pants. You're the type of guy who has to try and exercise his prowess by pretending he's a master of the art. You're ignorant and you try to pit your mindless ramblings onto others, and you take offense to it when people point out you're full of shit. Deal with it, and get off this board. You're only making an ass of yourself.

When did I say steroids were harmless? I'm an advocate for INTELLIGENT steroid use. You, obviously, wouldn't know what that is pointing out extreme cases. Track athletes have obviously benefitted from anabolics (Montgomery, White, et al.), until they got caught. If you're in a drug tested sport, don't use. If you want it for personal reasons, go for it if you're smart enough to research first.

 

[musclepump]

Oh, and another thing moron, if you're going to try and flame someone, or even try to get your point over the plate, learn to fucking spell. If you're not on roids, find out what's preventing your educational capacity from reaching "normal" levels. Learn to phrase a sentence correctly, learn the difference between your/you're and there/their/they're, and you'll be a step closer.

Ignorant fuck.

 

[SlimShady]

Steroids are in almost in every sport. However, the use of steroids is incredibly bad. Never, ever, take them. These athletes who do, they will end up with severe health problems. everyone has heart problems, a local kid I know has nasty protein deposits in his arms, and it screws up your bones and ligments. I have seen people in my gym get injured from steroid use (your muscles develop, but your ligaments and joints can't keep up with muscles, i.e. this guy I saw benching 395 dropped the weight on his chest because his left shoulder dislocated). Plus the side-effects of steroids are permanent and mostly irreversible, yet the strength you get is lost when you cycle off. So steroid use has temporary benefits, but in the end you are only screwing yourself over.

average people on the street shouldnt be needing steroids

I'm sorry that you've seen some people who've had bad experiences with steroids. That's very unfortunate. It proves that a lot of people try to use steroids without having sufficient knowledge to do so in a safe manner. I don't know what athletes you are speaking about, but they certainly aren't in professional sports. I spent a few years as a pro and now I am a sports agent. I represent some pretty successful people. Steroid use is rampant, but it's not causing the problems that you speak of. Where do you think most of the athletes get their gear? They aren't buying it from some guy behind the gym. Most of them are getting it right from the team doctor. The use is administered and controlled by a physician. There are literally hundreds of retired players who used gear (during their careers) and experienced zero problems. Perhaps even thousands. The track and field athletes you speak of, they aren't using common steroids because they're concerned about beating the test. They have to test clean, so they use exotic substances and clouding agents. Don't confuse those drugs with steroids a knowledgable body builder might use.

Once more, I am sorry about your friends who had problems. Don't confuse abuse with use. They are two different things.

 

[live2pump]

Damn Leon, you made the post run rampant.

My original reason of creating this post was to get the thought process of taking steroids. I wanted to know when is the moment when you say to yourself, "I need to do something that is possibly harmful and illegal to make my physique look better!"

I don't think there is nearly enough medical research to say if steroids are bad or not. Honestly, I wonder what would happen if a (pre-death) poll was conducted on former athletes, BB, etc who died fairly young or from terminal illnesses in the 60s,70s,80s.

We are blessed to to own such delicate and complex bodies and we should be working with what the man above gave us. If males were indeded to produce the amount of test that steroids gave it should be as natural as breathing air for our lungs. Yes they're are some unfortunate that have disorders w/ test and they I can see needing a boost. I just hope a lot of you guys that are pro-steroids don't look back and regret it for such short-term goals.

 

[Little Wing]

just a womans out of place opinion but even if steroids have risk and aren't so well accepted. i think they are still better than a country full off obese people sitting on their sofas scarfing down buckets of fat and smoking cigarettes... it's a personal choice and far far less dangerous than many of the choices people in our society make. yea my mother died of second hand steroids? oh that's smoke that does that sorry. our government is retarded on this issue too just like everything else. a kid cannot go pick up a pack of smokes for their dad but he can go pick up dads perscription for 100 oxycontin. where the hell is the common sense there? then there is extreme body modification. it's legal to go have your tongue split in two and your teeth filed into points, scales tattoed all over you, things implanted under your skin. christ fake tits. there is a real healthy thing to do to a body. but because most people including me don't really understand steroids the government reacts like a bunch of cross waving baptists. i don't have to understand a guy wanting to transform his body into a tiger-man thru modification but it shouldn't give me the right to stop him . not my body it's his.
it's a legal right to cut life from a womans womb and throw it in the trash. it's a legal right to surgically alter the body in procedures that have a very high risk of death, face lifts, lipo, implants, vanity sugeries. have some rational perspective as to where steroids fit on the scheme of these things. then lighten up.

 

[P-funk]

I have gone over the pros and cons before. I must say my conscience, like yours has kept me from doing it.

I understand why people do it. I don't think it is a bad thing. I don't think that they are dangerous if you are smart about it (like anything).

The pro's would be:
to get bigger
stronger
better physique
etc...

All that sounds great but the biggest CON of using for me is that I have no interest at being a pro bodybuilder and I am not a professional or Elite athelete. I am just a regular guy. So, I don't see the point in doing it just so that I can walk about the streets ripped at 210lbs and feel better about myself. I would rather just try and work with what I have and do the best that I can. If I was a pro athelete I would have no problem using. But, for me, it just isn't the path to take.

 

[devildog88]

Didn't Arnold have open heart surgery due to artery thickining and blockages.

 

[Leon77]

i am not against steroid use i was just saying you cant tell everyone theres no side effects and the result is just big muscles, these people are not doctors etc

This is copy and pasted from Massmuscleinc.com, it is a post by some guy, I just think you all should read, remember their are a lot of factors that go into something like this, but it seems kidney disease has been creeping up on some bodybuilders as of late.

"Alot of you people know me, but for those who don't i'm a 2 time state middleweight Pa State champion in the NPC. I also took it to the next level 2 times competing at Nationals for the allmighty PRO card. I recently was diagnosed with Renal Kidney Failure, that means basically my kidney are shutting down. I need dialysis 3 times a week for 4 hours a session to stay alive. Kidney problems do not run in my family, nobody in my family has ever had a kidney related issue.
You have to realize there are consiquenses to your actions with AAS, do not think that you are invinsible.
I was recently prepping for the state championships, i figured this is my year for the overall state title Mr Pennsyvania and it was balls to the wall. About 6 weeks out i started throwing up every day sometimes 2 times a day, my ankles were holding water and my skin was turning very pale and i was so fatigued but i pushed on anyway thinking i was being a pussy. Finally it got so bad i could harly breathe and was truely afraid that something very serious was wrong. I went to the doctor for bloodwork, he sent it out stat the next thing i know he called me and wanted me in the hospital NOW. I went to intensive care where they gave me 4 units of blood and blood pressure meds, turns out my kidney's where shutting of and have been doing so for some time now. I went from prepping for a state title to having a doctor sitting in front of me telling me "you need a transplant". If i would have had bloodwork and payed attention to it i would more than likey not been in this grim position. Nobody talks about the bad side of steroids on these boards, so i just wanted you to know what you are getting into. I don't mean to lecture, i was asked to write this piece to make people realize there is a bad side about steroids that most people are in denial about.
Thank you for listening and hopefully i can help some of you from being in the same position as me some day.

I am a non drinker, non smoker, i have had a very strict diet since 1996 always lean. I have to say that i have also taken the ephedrine, caffeine, aspirin stack since 1991 nonstop, and nsaids for joint and muscle pain. Once again this is not in my genes and i am only 37. We all know anadrol, d-bol, winny, halo, and tren are harsh substances, but the quest for size blinds us to the negative aspects of these drugs. I'm not saying don't do them, that is a personal choice but at least be careful.

I never juiced like some of these people on the boards. Shit was hard to come by where i live so cycles were very basic with average doses. I never did 1 gram of test a week, d-bol would be 50mg a day tops, and anadrol would be 150 mg a day for a maximum of a week during a cycle. The thing is that i never really came off since 1996. Figured i'd never turn pro if i took time off."

 

[Witmaster]

lets not forget whos the "toughest" on this forum--- me

Uh...... yep. No doubt about that Ace. You're one "tough" cookie indeed!!

 

[Leon77]

Uh...... yep. No doubt about that Ace. You're one "tough" cookie indeed!!

i was saying that in response to be called a cunt because i said steroids may have side effects even if not abused

i have made excellent gains of strength and lean compact muscle without using steroids

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[LAM]

i was saying that in response to be called a cunt because i said steroids may have side effects even if not abused

i have made excellent gains of strength and lean compact muscle without using steroids

[/IMG]

the fact remains that all of your comments are based mainly on your opionion and not on research that YOU have performed. do you even know the difference between anabolic and androgenic steroids ? if so name one irreversable side effect of short term nandrolone usage ?

many of us here trained for a number of years before deciding to use AAS. I was a natural 260 lbs and had been training for 20+ years before I stuck a needle in my ass. when I stop using steroids I will still be bigger and stronger than 99.9% of the people on this planet.

 

[musclepump]

i was saying that in response to be called a cunt because i said steroids may have side effects even if not abused

i have made excellent gains of strength and lean compact muscle without using steroids

Leon, I've got nothing personal against you, really. I came at you the way I did because you didn't "just say" that steroids "May" have side effects; you came out in a way that insinuated that all of us who even condone the use of steroids were immoral, moronic losers. You really shouldn't try and come down on people--share your opinions, that's what we're all here to do, but don't try to act smarter or more dominant tha n you are.

 

[njc]

Why cant you guys just disagree with him in a cool manner? whats with all the calling him a cunt and shit like that? Overly defensive much?

He was just posting what he believes. If he believes what he does due to his past experiences then I wanna hear about it. If there are pro and anti steroid views I want to hear them both. He didnt write his info to insult you guys, he wrote it to voice his beliefs. If what hes seen in his life leads him to the conclusion that roids are bad then why does that make him a "putz", or a "cunt". Fuckin retarded.

 

[musclepump]

Why cant you guys just disagree with him in a cool manner? whats with all the calling him a cunt and shit like that? Overly defensive much?

He was just posting what he believes. If he believes what he does due to his past experiences then I wanna hear about it. If there are pro and anti steroid views I want to hear them both. He didnt write his info to insult you guys, he wrote it to voice his beliefs. If what hes seen in his life leads him to the conclusion that roids are bad then why does that make him a "putz", or a "cunt". Fuckin retarded.

Because he was acting as stupid and holy as you are, idiot.

 

[njc]

Because he was acting as stupid and holy and you are, idiot.

Thats the stupidest sentence ive ever read in my life.

 

[Leon77]

Because he was acting as stupid

hang on there boy, me being stupid just because i said some nasty and unhealthy side effects can occure during and off cycles some people who are told to take steroids end up a bloated mess who became injury prone. which i have witnesed, you ramble on like anyone can take steroids, sit back and light the cigars.

 

[musclepump]

Leon: What in any of my posts has insinuated that I think "anyone" can take steroids, sist back, and light a cigar? Point out one time where I have made the use of Anabolic steroids sound like it's for anyone and everyone. You can't. You came out denoting anyone who uses or condones the use of steroids, and you assume just because people aren't as against them as you are, that they are pro-steroids for everyone? Not a chance.

 

[Witmaster]

Damn Leon, you made the post run rampant.

My original reason of creating this post was to get the thought process of taking steroids. I wanted to know when is the moment when you say to yourself, "I need to do something that is possibly harmful and illegal to make my physique look better!" ....

You seem to be convinced that Steroids are inevitably and unavoidably harmful when used. I would submit to you that the majority of users are doing so because after careful research and proper study they have each discovered that Steroids, when used in a responsible manner, are not harmful.

 

[SlimShady]

You seem to be convinced that Steroids are inevitably and unavoidably harmful when used. I would submit to you that the majority of users are doing so because after careful research and proper study they have each discovered that Steroids, when used in a responsible manner, are not harmful.

I wonder what the real percentages of informed/uninformed users actually is?
The way I see it, there are three kinds of people using steroids -

1. Athletes using under doctor's supervision. They really don't need to know anything because that's the Doc's job.

2. People who study, research and learn the proper uses and dosages prior to using.

3. People who "get it from some guy at the gym" and just follow orders from an unknown person, and end up taking the wrong dosages, no PCT, etc. These people end up crippled, hurt, or dead.

Just a wild guess on my part, but I would say the majority resides in number 3. Most people aren't smart enough to research anything, plus they equate illegal steroids with illegal drug use - (n which case one could safely listen to the dealer or a buddy and not really worry about research.)

 

[Witmaster]

Oh I won't dispute your theory here but suffice it to say that there really is no way to honestly know the answer. I honestly believe that if you were to somehow get an actual "count" of ALL the people who use steroids responsibly you may very well find they greatly outnumber the ones who do so with reckless abandon. Unfortunately, since roids are illegal the main focus of these threads seems to be on the "deadly side effects" because that's all people see on the news.