training to failiure

[Tha Don]

I want to hear the best reasons why NOT to train to failiure?

some skinny bitch at the gym the other day started trying to lecture me on how to get big you MUST train beyond failiure after I told him not to give me any forced reps while spotting me on the bench press, I felt like beating the shit outta him when he started trying to be a smart ass and started saying that i was wrong ''nope... you gotta train to failiure if you want to get big... what are you training for...?''

I didn't know what to say to the guy... so why is he wrong? why shouldn't you train to failiure all the time?

 

[sabre81]

Muscular endurance? thats about all i can think of. I train to failure everytime im at the gym.

 

[LAM]

there are many types of "failure" when it comes to resistance training. none of them are neccessary to stimulate hypetrophy, using progressive overload, training at a high-intensity and using some basic periodization principles is all you really need to do...

 

[gopro]

I am a FIRM believer in training to failure, but only once you've reached a certain level. As a generalization, I think you can simply train with progressive overload for the first two years, but after this will have to find new ways to stimulate hypertrophy (optimally).

 

[tenxyearsxgone]

What Really Makes A Muscle Grow And Strengthen
If you've read the Muscle Growth series, combined with what was discussed above, it's probably becoming obvious to you by now that training to muscular failure (concentrically, eccentrically or isometrically) is NOT the necessary stimulus for growth. Quite simply, tension, time and the build-up of fatigue products is. The fibers need to develop sufficient tension for long enough a period to damage themselves (incur microtrauma) - causing growth factors to be released in the cells and leached out into the surrounding area and intracellular calcium levels must rise to 'set off' both growth and destructive processes. Extra growth stimulus is also provided by the build-up of fatigue metabolites such as phosphate and hydrogen ions (caused by elevated lactic acid levels). None of this is dependent on reaching a point of momentary failure. In fact, depending on rep-range and overall training volume, the failure effort may prove to be an 'unreasonable' burden on the nervous (both central and peripheral) and signaling systems (primarily the T system). Time must then be given for the recovery and supercompensation processes to take place.

This isn't to say that training to failure can't have a place in a sensible training schedule, as it certainly can and, in fact, does. For people who possess above average nervous system recovery abilities it may even become a major mainstay of their training programs. The point is simply that the effects of such training and personal recovery patterns of all systems involved have to be considered before such a training approach is adopted.

I really hope this article has helped you sort out some of the confusion that surrounds the "you have to train to failure to make a muscle grow" mentality. By now, you should be seeing that those 'boring' physiology articles really do have a purpose.



from: http://www.engr.mun.ca/~butt/training/failure.html

 

[ChrisROCK]

as an aside though...what does everyone consider to be "training to failure"?

 

[ArnoldSchwarz81]

A good reason why I personally wouldn't train to failure is due to to my average CNS recuperative abilities. In other words, If you train to failure on every exercise or to the point of true failure it will take much longer for your body to recover and most people don't realize this, in my opinion, and they will be back in the gym before they should be. Also, if you are training for strength you shouldn't work your CNS near or to complete failure on the same exercise more than 2-3 weeks consecutively and should switch up which exercise you want to work to near failure, but only advisable to those who have been lifting for several years and have good recoverability, ie you ronnie colemans out there. I personally try to lift to the point where I know i can get another rep or two and stop...why you ask, well because when I do train to failure the muscles that are involved in that lift are basically too exhausted to lift any significant weight after that set.

 

[tenxyearsxgone]

Failure by definition means that you cannot go on you have not completed a designated task. Failure can be doing 3 reps with 315 or doing 8 reps with 255, IF, when you attempt one more rep it won't budge and you've used all of your ability to move the weight. You can go to failure on lower reps by taxing your CNS and not your muscles while at higher reps you may be taxing your muscles more so than your CNS, both have their downsides, I am not too familiar with the good that can come out of that?

 

[Cyber_Pinky]

Training to failure has it's moments... but it also increases the chance of injury.

 

[Duncans Donuts]

The only risk during training to failure is if you're squatting or doing deadlifts...the enormous fatigue during the last reps can cause form to slip

 

[bhunter]

I wish I had the book in front of me...but Bill Pearl said that training to failure was kind of a "trend" that came about later in BB. He also stated it is a very bad idea for novices and begginers. I will try to find the book at home and give the reasons he said why not to.

 

[Pumpster]

The huge benefit for me is knowing that i've done all that i can to move forward and increase. No downsides to it, the advantage is better health. Even on heavy lifts, there's the Smith machine and many good machines to reduce the risk.

Maybe the question is whether training beyond failure is necessary-to forced reps, burns, etc. that are a given in HIT and should be used only occasionally in other methods, to move things along, to increase.

 

[bhunter]

http://www.billpearl.com/programs/programs.asp?d=3

read down to where is says "A simple answer to a common problem" Taken from Bill Pearls website

 

[Phred]

I usually train to fialure on the last set of an exercise. And occasionally the second to the last set. I used to train to failure on all sets (or at least that was my goal). I did not seem to be making the progress I was trying for (steady increase in strength and size). I seemed to plataue (sp). I am currently using P/RR/S and will lower the wts on sets as needed to stay in the rep range for each exercise I am performing. With the exception of squats and deadlifts, I still go to faiure, however, only on the last set. For me it is just a mind thing that I know I gave it my all and there is nothing left.

 

[Cyber_Pinky]

The only risk during training to failure is if you're squatting or doing deadlifts...the enormous fatigue during the last reps can cause form to slip

Yes IF you know what you're doing... but you can imagine potential damage to body parts when training to failure is put in the hands of an inexperienced BB.

 

[gopro]

Honestly, I trained to failure from the very first day. In my mind, I felt that I should move the weight until it no longer would move. That was just my mentality and it "just" made sense...why stop if I can curl or press the weight one more time. Now of course, as a trainer and coach I do not necessarily take that approach with beginners that I train b/c I know better, but when I was a newbie, every set was to the max that my 125 lb body of skin and bones could muster! I never hurt myself, and progressed pretty well.

 

[sgtneo]

i have just started to realise that all people who go to the gym to bulk up properly and have a proper split all train to failure now as much as i have wanted to have a go at someone for just going to the gym to waste their time cause they canot use any machines properly, i still resist as this is their way of wanting to train and if they want help or indeed want to know if their our doing it right they would have asked a professionall. so basicly i would have lost it with the skinny person for telling me how to do my work out its different when i came on here cause i asked for help.

also i am new to it all and i presonly only train to failure on the last set of an excersize because i can usually manage to complete the first few sets is it good idea to bulk up or shall i just do what i can manage? as i dont use his technique very much anyhow

each person to their own

Neo

 

[Pumpster]

Training to failure's tough for most beginners or lite trainers. Lots of hard core peeps find it second nature..

 

[DOMS]

I've done it since day one. Like gop-ro said, what's the point in stopping if you can do more?

 

[gregster224]

My last set of each excerise is always to failure, always has been. If do 6 reps and know I can do one more, I do one more. Explain to me why you would want to stop short?