Twin Peak's Gettin' Large

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by lina
So when bulking, you don't care to stick to just 'clean' carbs/fats?

Things like, alcohol, quesadilllas, buttered popcorn, white tortillas, white rice, wouldn't that make you gain fat faster rather than the slow burning carbs?

Yes. And no.

First let me say thanks for checking up on me and reading the details!

Now. I agree with you in general. And I particularly agree when cutting and when seeking to lose that stubborn bodyfat (you know losing the last 5-10 pounds).

In other words at the fringes I think it matters a lot. When bulking, and particurly when eating over 4000 cals, I don't believe it matters all that much. I don't believe for example, that eating terribly versus eating clean, holding cals constant, over a 6 week period could result in more than a pound or 2 in fat, tops.

Of course, it is important to get enough good cals in the form of protein, carbs and fat in order to increase muscle mass.

So, all that said, I do eat realtively clean. If you have been reading everyday or scanning back, I think you will see that.

Also, as a practical issue. I haven'y sworn off those foods for life. So if I don't have them once or twice a week when bulking, when will I?

 

[Twin Peak]

Tuesday, November 19, 2002

I feel awesome today. My workouts yesterday and today especially felt great. Major progression on legs. This is week 3 versus week 5 (and week three was a bunch stronger than weeks 1 and 2!)

?????????????????????..Week 1??????..Week 3?????????..Week 5 (today)
1 1/4 Squats??????.315 x 5????????????.315 x 8?????????..335 x 8
????????????????????????295 x 6????????????335 x 6?????????...365 x 6
????????????????????????275 x 6...?????????355 x 4?????????...385 x 4

Hack Squats.??????270 x 8??????..???.360 x 10??????.???410 x 10
????????????????????????270 x 8??????..???.410 x 7??????...???450 x 10

Leg Press??????..6 plates x 12???...9 plates x 9???.???10plates x 10
?????????????????????6 plates x 12???..10 plates x89???...12plates x 6

SLDL???????????????185 x 6????????????185 x 10??????.???..225 x 10
???????????????.???.???185 x 6?????????.???245 x 6??????...???.275 x 5

Leg Curls?????????50 x 6????????????..60 x 8???????????????.70 x 7
??????????????????.???50 x 6????????????..60 x 8???????????????.60 x 8

I also did some light bis today. Interestingly, today I felt and looked harder and denser, in terms of upper body mass. That is odd since I still look and feel fatter. Oh well, I feel great and I???ll ride the high.

 

[lina]

Originally posted by Twin Peak


Yes. And no.

First let me say thanks for checking up on me and reading the details!

Now. I agree with you in general. And I particularly agree when cutting and when seeking to lose that stubborn bodyfat (you know losing the last 5-10 pounds).

In other words at the fringes I think it matters a lot. When bulking, and particurly when eating over 4000 cals, I don't believe it matters all that much. I don't believe for example, that eating terribly versus eating clean, holding cals constant, over a 6 week period could result in more than a pound or 2 in fat, tops.

Of course, it is important to get enough good cals in the form of protein, carbs and fat in order to increase muscle mass.

So, all that said, I do eat realtively clean. If you have been reading everyday or scanning back, I think you will see that.

Also, as a practical issue. I haven'y sworn off those foods for life. So if I don't have them once or twice a week when bulking, when will I?

Oh yeah... I forgot to add Nachos to the list! Yeah, I have been checking your journal every now and then so I am aware of what you are eating...

You are right that if you are talking bout 4000 cals and if you eat clean most of the time the lil' junk in proportion might not be impt but since you mentioned before that you are an easy gainer.... That is why I asked yesterday if you have measured bf% or LBM along the way...This may work in your case, I guess I'm plain ol' jealous of (1) 4000 cals (2) that yu can eat that stuff (junk)!!!!!

But you are right about enjoying your bulk!!

 

[lina]

Great job on the weights!

 

[Robboe]

Originally posted by Twin Peak


Maybe not after a few more stacks!

haha. I don't think he's on quite the same sort of 'stacks' as you.

 

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by lina


Oh yeah... I forgot to add Nachos to the list! Yeah, I have been checking your journal every now and then so I am aware of what you are eating...

You are right that if you are talking bout 4000 cals and if you eat clean most of the time the lil' junk in proportion might not be impt but since you mentioned before that you are an easy gainer.... That is why I asked yesterday if you have measured bf% or LBM along the way...This may work in your case, I guess I'm plain ol' jealous of (1) 4000 cals (2) that yu can eat that stuff (junk)!!!!!

But you are right about enjoying your bulk!!

No I haven't measured bodyfat. I have no accurate way of telling. That's whay I am taking the pics and sharing with you all (bodyhair and all). So its not just words on a page.

I am an easy gainer. But again, if I gain, I believe its the cals in general and not so much the source.

I'd like to here Rob's (and Yan's) take on this though.

 

[Robboe]

Ironically, i think i try to eat cleaner when bulking than when cutting.

When you're cutting, types of carbs mean little (besides the health aspect) since the calories won't be there to store anything. They'll be taking away instead.

However, insulin promotes LPL (stores fat) and eating junk basically puts you in a more fat storing environment, so i try and eat as 'clean' as possible because the calories are there to be stored as fat, which we obviously don't want.

When cutting i continue to lift the same weights, but i'm more aware of overall calories. When gaining, i lift the same weights, but i'm more aware of the types of calories.

No doubt someone is gonan try and call me out on contradiction, but i'm not contradicting myself.

When you cut, you do it slowly to ensure only fat is lost (or as much fat and as little muscle as possible). You continue to lift heavy to send your body signals to retain muscle tissue. You eat in calorie deficit, so regardless of the types of food you eat, your body MUST tap into stored sources to fuel metabolic processes. When you get to more stubborn leanness, as TP said, the types of carbs you eat become more important because anything not low GI can stir cravings and possibly make you break diet. Insulin can also be a bastard when it comes to stubborn fat (especially for women) so a low carb diet may even be a good idea.

When you gain, you (hopefully) control calories to ensure slow WEIGHT gain. Calories don't dictate what weight is put on. Heavy-ass weight lifting and calorie types DO. Eating clean foods in calorie surplus reduces the chances of the the muscle to fat gain ratio being tipped in the fat gain favour. The calories decide how much weight is put on, but it is up to you, via weight lifting, strategic food choices and placing (eg post w/o shake) etc... to decde how much added is fat and how much is muscle.

Hopefully you'll add more of the latter.

 

[Robboe]

And the above reasoning is EXACTLY why i tell people to aim for 0.5lb gain a week when gaining.

Realistically, the natural lifter (excluding new lifters and young lifters) will only add about 2-4lb a month, which equates to about 0.5 gain a week. So it's ideal.

The second reason is cause in calorie surplus, the natural lifter (exluding new lifters and young lifters maybe) WILL put on some fat, so controlling calories smart enough will reduce the amount gained. Smart training maximises the amount of muscle gained.

All in all, we aim for more muscle gained, less fat gained. Or even more fat lost, if you're lucky.

 

[Twin Peak]

Rob is prolly right but I like my answer better!

Rob, my only worry about that logic (and you know this is going to be protein related) is that when cutting your total cals are quite limited. In that amounf of cals you MUST consume enough clean foods to ensure you don't lose muscle and -- in the beginning -- perhaps even gain a bit. So if you are cutting and makes sure you are getting enough protein, there is little room for bad foods.

 

[Robboe]

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Rob, my only worry about that logic (and you know this is going to be protein related) is that when cutting your total cals are quite limited. In that amounf of cals you MUST consume enough clean foods to ensure you don't lose muscle

I don't understand this.

How do you mean?

 

[Twin Peak]

Lets say you are 210 and want to get to 190. For me I need to eat around 2000 cals to lose weight (I know you are going to say thats low, but its what I need, trust me).

I believe that to maintain muscle you need a minimum of 1g per pound BW. I prefer 1.5 grams.

So 300 grams is 1200 cals. Lets say you get at least 50g of good fats. Thats 1650. Not a lot of cals left for bad foods and you haven't even had ANY carbs yet.

 

[Robboe]

Ahh, i see now.

If that's the case by the way, you may be hypo-thyroid.

 

[Twin Peak]

Its possible. If only I knew what that was....

 

[Robboe]

It could mean that if you breath four thousand and thirty-seven times on Jannuary the 4th of any year, your eyeballs will dry up and your stomach will fall out of your ass.

OR

it could mean that your thyroid "output" is slower than the norm.

 

[Twin Peak]

Oh I definitely think that is true. Which is why I have always been rather nervous about the 4000+ cals.

Hmmm, interesting that you picked my wedding anniversary for your hypo.

 

[Robboe]

Ah, so such a condition arises regardless of your thyroid state?

 

[lina]

I guess I agree with 1/2 of what TP said and 1/2 of what Rob said.... I think both the bulk and cut should be clean...

On a cut, I can't see just the quantity of calories being impt...does that mean I can eat Aero bars as my only food?

And on a bulk, I wouldn't want to eat junk (if I was competing) to increase any additional unnecessary fat so that it would be a bitch to get rid of during cuts by having to do extra cardio and having to increase the cut periods...

 

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Ah, so such a condition arises regardless of your thyroid state?

Hmmm, now this I don't get. Partically because I am not all that up on thyroid functioning and partially because I don't know what "condition" it is you are referring to and why.

 

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by lina
I guess I agree with 1/2 of what TP said and 1/2 of what Rob said.... I think both the bulk and cut should be clean...

On a cut, I can't see just the quantity of calories being impt...does that mean I can eat Aero bars as my only food?

And on a bulk, I wouldn't want to eat junk (if I was competing) to increase any additional unnecessary fat so that it would be a bitch to get rid of during cuts by having to do extra cardio and having to increase the cut periods...

Are you saying you ALWAYS eat clean? You aren't saying THAT are you? Cuz I read your journal too.

 

[lina]

Originally posted by lina
I guess I agree with 1/2 of what TP said and 1/2 of what Rob said.... I think both the bulk and cut should be clean...

On a cut, I can't see just the quantity of calories being impt...does that mean I can eat Aero bars as my only food?

And on a bulk, I wouldn't want to eat junk (if I was competing) to increase any additional unnecessary fat so that it would be a bitch to get rid of during cuts by having to do extra cardio and having to increase the cut periods...

I'm not the one competing but if I had to strut my ass in public you bet I would be eating as clean as possible cauz it's my cellulite that would be reflecting under those oh-so-bright lights!

 

[Robboe]

Originally posted by Twin Peak


Hmmm, now this I don't get. Partically because I am not all that up on thyroid functioning and partially because I don't know what "condition" it is you are referring to and why.

The condition: "It could mean that if you breath four thousand and thirty-seven times on Jannuary the 4th of any year, your eyeballs will dry up and your stomach will fall out of your ass."


The reason: "Hmmm, interesting that you picked my wedding anniversary for your hypo."


I guess it was a rather feeble attempt at a joke on my part.

I'll go hang my head in shame for a bit.

 

[Yanick]

Well if anyone cares, i'll chime in with my opinion.

Basically in a perfect world i would love to be able to eat clean all the time, bulk or cut for the reasons mentioned. however when i cut i just have this super strict bodybuilder'ish mentality of discipline and all that. But when i bulk, i just stop caring for some reason. For instance i will eat some strawberry preserves with my cottage cheese or i will have a slice or two of pizza if i really want to.

I agree with Rob on the scientific end, but i agree with TP on the practical end and i tend to lean towards the practical side of things on a bulk.

EDIT: Fixed grammatical errors, lol.

 

[dvlmn666]

shiat, being on the west coast, it takes forever to catch up with your journal every morning.

Awesome weights on the legs!!

 

[Yanick]

Originally posted by dvlmn666
shiat, being on the west coast, it takes forever to catch up with your journal every morning.

Its a PITA for me too, however i go to school in the morning so no internet access. By the time i get to work, this place isn't as active.

 

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by lina


I'm not the one competing but if I had to strut my ass in public you bet I would be eating as clean as possible cauz it's my cellulite that would be reflecting under those oh-so-bright lights!

Hmmm, I am not competing either. MIGHT compete sometime in the future but that is way down the road. See the difference between the bulk and the cut?

 

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by Yanick
I mostly agree with TCD on the scientific end, but i agree with TP on the practical end and i tend to lean towards the practical side of things on a bulk.

And that pretty much sums up our biggest difference!

And yes Rob, that was a feeble attempt at a joke. It had potential, but no follow through.

 

[kuso]

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
It could mean that if you breath four thousand and thirty-seven times on Jannuary the 4th of any year, your eyeballs will dry up and your stomach will fall out of your ass.

Wonder what the meaning of using my B`day is ??

 

[Twin Peak]

Nice sleep? Your b-day? I guess you missed it buts its my anniversay. And I think he picked it out of a hat? Weird!

 

[kuso]

LOL....bit of a coinkydink.

Sleep was way too short...eyes are blury...will read this when I get back from work. Have a good day..er..night

 

[Yanick]

TP,

your progression seems insane to me. I think you should try your hand at pl'ing, you have some pretty impressive numbers.