On off day, don't you feel less "pumped"? I'd assume "over-training" will make anyone ripped? I think I read an article somewhere that Schwarzenegger never took a day off. He was dedicated. Is training a muscle group more than twice a week considered over training? Let's say I do my deadlift workout twice a week. Is this ok? I read that for beginners it is. Would 3 times a week be more for seasoned bodybuilders?
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what determines over-training and is it really that bad?
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Kenny Croxdale
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Arnold took days off. He was dedicated and smart enough to know when to train and not. You didn't read enough.
Most seasoned lifters will deadlift about once a week.
The goal is to stiumlate muscle growth not anniliate it.
Kenny Croxdale
dirtbiker666
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Over training is a term that is over used and frankly I think the lazy use it. I used to think you could over train and I thought it was easy too. After going on a deployment and being up long hours and working hard labor and still lifting my ass of 7 days a week. I realized it's hard to over train. Is it possible ? YES...With proper sleep and nutrition its almost impossible. Not only that I think in order to become successful in anything especially bodybuilding you need to reach and break your limit. See how far it takes you or how long it takes for you to actually over train. What if all these years your thought you were training hard and come to find out after you have only been giving it 60 % the whole time based off a mental limitation resulting in less gain per year. All I am getting at is people read to far into things and honestly need to learn there body. I never new what it meant when experienced lifters would tell me that . But what I do know now is how much I need to eat when the best time to eat before I lift is what exercises are best to grow and to get stronger and when not do something by listening to my body. Hell I even lift when I am sick and it has never affected me.
Anyway to answer your question I do most body parts twice a week but I alter my volume up. And deadlifts twice a week no. Its a compound lift which you can do compound lifts twice in a week but it all depends on volume.
Anyway to answer your question I do most body parts twice a week but I alter my volume up. And deadlifts twice a week no. Its a compound lift which you can do compound lifts twice in a week but it all depends on volume.
allskillz20
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Overtraining is just an excuse for undereating..
CaptainNapalm
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Overtraining is very real. In 2006 I decided I wanted to get bigger and hit 185 lbs, I was 165 at the time. Coupled with a solid diet, I started with intelligently designed workouts and was in the gym 4 times weekly, 1-2 hrs per session. After 6 weeks I felt I was getting mediocre results so I figured I would train more. I upped my calories and protein intake and started training 5 times a week, then after two months I was only taking one rest day a week. No matter how much I varied my workouts I was still feeling off, my gains came to a hault and I basically I fried my CNS. Reluctantly, I took a week off and then trained hard 3 times a week. After 3 moths I exploded, gained double what I gained in the 5 months prior and was hovering at close to 190 lbs not to mention got much stronger. Based on that experience I now train 3-4 times a week and take 1-2 weeks off every 8-12 weeks. This i truly believe has allowed me to get big and strong. So this is what's right for me and it's a very individual thing. I know guys (not on gear) who can do 5 days a week long term with no problems.
technically over-training is not allowing for enough CNS recovery sufficiently in-between bouts of high intensity exercise. the higher the intensity of exercise the longer it takes the CNS to recovery. eventually muscles can not contract efficiently and there is a loss of strength and/or performance in sport.
with low intensity exercise you can train more frequently. say for example you can squat 200lbs as a 1RM. using a working weight of 50lbs would allow the person to squat daily as the CNS is not taxed heavily at all with such a light load compared to the potential.
with low intensity exercise you can train more frequently. say for example you can squat 200lbs as a 1RM. using a working weight of 50lbs would allow the person to squat daily as the CNS is not taxed heavily at all with such a light load compared to the potential.
Kenny Croxdale
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Kenny Croxdale
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Evidenlty, you weren't training that hard. You just thought you were.
Kenny Croxdale
This doesn't necessarily mean you were over training. You just found out that high volume doesn't work for you. You are saying you stopped training like that because you weren't getting the results you wanted, not because of the symptoms of over training.
Also, even from my own experience, you have to drastically alter your workout style when you switch to higher volume. You can't take the same workouts and intensity from a 4 day split and just assume that that same kind of work can be done on 2 extra days. For example, 531 is a 3-4 day split. You can't just all of a sudden do 531 6 days a week and expect to see faster results.
tinyshrek
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When I was in the infantry we definently over trained BUT your body eventually becomes accustomed to it and conditions itself. The problem is when outside supplements come into play it can cause adrenal fatigue and burn your CNS out... This is why excessive caffeine use especially pre workouts are horrible for you...
- SHREK
- SHREK
CNS adaption only goes so far for those that train natural. those on gear have almost zero fear of over-traning due to the that androgens act on the CNS and AR receptors.
tinyshrek
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Natural or not your CNS will adapt. A lot of people think they are overtraining when they actually aren't they are just out of shape and have no cardiovascular conditioning
- SHREK
- SHREK
dirtbiker666
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Its true your body is so good at adapting to things over training is so uncommon please stop with the blasphemy everyone. Post your pictures up and I will tell you if your over training .
These are some great info. and opinions guys. Like I said, my chest is well developed in high school and now. All I did was bench press and it was the "lazy man's workout". You lay there and lift. I did it daily. I felt stronger and looked pumped. When people say they "plateaued" and can't lift any more or is stuck with the same weight they were lifting a few months earlier, well that means you've reached your max. How heavy can you go exactly? It has to stop somewhere. I think people mistake this for plateau when it's really not. They've just maxed out to their limit.
1-2 hours is a bit long. I used to do that in high school but now I am in the "real world" I do ok with just under 1 hour. When on cycle I prefer to workout daily to make good use of the "gear". When off cycle I can take a day or two off, no problem.
colochine
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30 minute circuit workout is where it's st if you really want to get big.
Kenny Croxdale
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tinyshrek
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Exactly! Thanks Kenny. Morons I swear... When I was in Iraq I was on no gear whatsoever. I ran 3-5 miles 3-4 times a week. But there were periods where I trained in the gym over a month in a row with no problems at all recovering and made gains the entire time. My bet is your a lazy ass dirt biker and couldn't run a couple miles if his life depended on it. Your body conditions itself it's mind over matter. Sure your gonna feel tired and sore some days and not want to get outa bed but EVENTUALLY your body will adapt. My opinion is most people UNDERTRAIN and use overtraining a a way of pussing out of training hard(dirt biker)
- SHREK
Kenny Croxdale
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Endurance training is a form of over training. You definitely become better at running at the expense of becoming weaker and lose muscle mass, as well.
Research has demonstrated endurance is contraindicated for strength athletes. Also, individuals who want to "grow some muscle" need to limit there endurance training.
On the other hand, strength training has been shown to increase an endurance athlete's performance.
There is an inverse relationship between strength and endurance. As one goes up the other goes down.
If "your body adapts" and there is NO overtraining, NFL players would play 178 a season as NBA basketball player do. Instead they play 16 games a season.
Evidenlty, NFL "dirt bags bikers" can run a couple of miles.
So according to your logic, NFL players just "puss out."
Glad you brought that to our attention.
Kenny Croxdale
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tinyshrek
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Touché
- SHREK
- SHREK
tinyshrek
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Nba players play 82 not 178. I mean MLB plays 162? But u have to be extremely cardiovascular fit to play football or basketball so that is horrible logic as well. With sufficient amount of food you can still put on muscle with cardio included. As you can see with Crossfit. Numerous people put on muscle wit cardio included. There is a huge difference between cardiovascular training and ENDURANCE training buddy
- SHREK
- SHREK
Kenny Croxdale
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Yes, that's what I meant.
That is your logic, not mine. As per you, "a lazy ass dirt biker couldn't run a couple miles if his life depended on it."
Football and basketball player would fall into you catagorized area. So as per you, football and basketball players are "lazy ass dirt bikers"...whatever that means.
Perhaps "we" should amend that to football players are "bad ass, lazy ass dirt bikers" ...
With a sufficient amount of brains to write a training program you can put on muscle. There's a difference.
Crossfit is a Metabolic Program. That means it is great for burning fat.
Crossfit is a good General Physical Prepardness Training.
However, Crossfit is a very poor, ineffective method of increasing muscle mass.
"...workouts like P90X or Crossfit people ripped and lean, but not big. They're so metabolically demanding that mTOR shuts off, limiting protein synthesis. This is great if you want to lose weight and look lean, but bad if you want to move up a shirt size or two." T NATION | Getting Big Through TUT
mTOR (Mammalian Target of Rapamycin) is a major factor in increasing muscle mass. Tripping the "mTOR trigger" creates an anabolic enviroment to grow muscle. Protein Synthesis = Increased Muscle Mass
Training program such as Crossfit depress and/or shut down mTOR. That means Crossfit is a catabolic program. Muscle is depleted along with fat.
The problem with perfoming cardio while trying to increasing muscle mass, is cardio it cuts into your recovery time. Recover time is when you build muscle.
Cardiovascular training, as you have defined it, and endurance training both fall into the catagory of Metabolic Training.
Great program for burning body fat and increasing cardiovascular fitness. However, both stiffle adding muscle mass.
Kenny Croxdale
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hypo_glycemic
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Cross fit?? Please, I'm not trying to be the best at exercising!! Cross fit people should GTFO.. Sorry, I think it's a joke and most- or a lot of those people look like they are ALWAYS in a catabolic state.. Just sayn....
tinyshrek
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I don't Crossfit. I have tried it before and gained muscle and increased cardiovascular conditioning as well without gear.
- SHREK
- SHREK
tinyshrek
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See this is why I love guys like Kenny they read a bunch of articles from different books and websites and try to act intelligent and it seems really cool online. But they have never practiced anything.... Have you tried Crossfit for 6-12 months and gaged results? DC? Mountaindog? HIT? Volume Training? Military conditioning? Sports conditioning? I'm guessing you probably haven't because your to concerned with reading about and posting links. I have tried everyone of those above and you know what I've learned?? THAT ANY TRAINING PROGRAM CAN BE USED TO INCREASE MUSCLE AS LONG AS THE CALORIES ARE THERE TO SUPPORT IT. Now some are better than others and that is totally based on body type and metabolism. So my friend kenny you can never speak on ABSOLUTES because there isn't one.
- SHREK
they read a bunch of articles from different books and websites and try to act intelligent and it seems really cool online. But they have never practiced anything.... Have you tried Crossfit for 6-12 months and gaged results? DC? Mountaindog? HIT? Volume Training? Military conditioning? Sports conditioning? I'm guessing you probably haven't because your to concerned with reading about and posting links. I have tried everyone of those above and you know what I've learned?? THAT ANY TRAINING PROGRAM CAN BE USED TO INCREASE MUSCLE AS LONG AS THE CALORIES ARE THERE TO SUPPORT IT. Now some are better than others and that is totally based on body type and metabolism. So my friend kenny you can never speak on ABSOLUTES because there isn't one.- SHREK
Kenny Croxdale
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Kenny Croxdale
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See this is why I love guys like Kenny
Tiny, let me translate what you said. "Kenny, I have no idea about what you're talking about because you use big word that I don't understand."
I will make more of an effort to "dumb it down for you".
Tiny, google me and find out.
Evidently, you haven't learn much.
Would that it be...but it ain't.
Actually, there is one.
Your are ABOSOLUTE a moron.
Your buddy (as you stated in one of your post), Kenny
TINYshrek, pretty much tells us all we need to know.
tinyshrek
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