What does the idealistic pre and post w/o shake include?

[Incognegro]

I need a guide of sorts I guess for the new year when I change up my diet some. Thanks!


Pre workout im not that sure except to include my primaforce, but post I was thinking:

2 percent
bcaas
2 scoops on whey
some sort of carbs that get into the body quick that best blend into a shake.
dose of a creatine as well?

If I am way off base please correct me and provide me w/ a viable solution!

TIA

J

 

[Incognegro]

bumptizzles!


J

 

[Thunder]

You'd be fine with just whey protein and maltodextrin PWO.

 

[Emma-Leigh]

Mix of carb sources including a good proportion of glucose (which ever source you wish to get it from) using something that will give you an insulin response (for anti-catabolic action). I also like a little fructose (not more than about 20% unless you are doing severe glycogen depleting endurance stuff).

So something like milk (insulinogenic) +/- some dextrose (higher GI stuff) or maltodextrin + banana (some fructose, glucose, starch)....

I also recommend a mix of protein sources including both whey (majority being this) and casein (something around 25%?? I am not yet decided on this). [so a mix of whey + mix would probably do].

So for me I think:
milk
whey
dextrose
+/- banana
Would be a good mix...

 

[Zinthar]

I've been mixing my glutamine in with my pre- and post-WO shakes...is this a mistake? When is the ideal time to have glutamine and what would be the best to mix it with.

Right now my post-WO shake consists of:
Milk
2 scoops whey (approx. 45g)
Dextrose (about 1 tablespoon)
3-4 grams Glutamine

 

[Emma-Leigh]

I've been mixing my glutamine in with my pre- and post-WO shakes...is this a mistake? When is the ideal time to have glutamine and what would be the best to mix it with.

Right now my post-WO shake consists of:
Milk
2 scoops whey (approx. 45g)
Dextrose (about 1 tablespoon)
3-4 grams Glutamine

You can include glutamine if you want - and pre/post workout is as good a time as any (5g pre and post +/- 5g before bed is fine) but in my opinion glutamine is a bit of a waste of money unless you are:
1. doing endurance training
2. sick or recovering from sickness
3. hardcore dieting (very much under your calorie range)


And in regards to your PWO shake - that is probably too much protein (you probably do not need 45g of whey + milk - not unless you are 220 pounds of pure muscle) and not enough carbs (well... unless you are about 100 pounds)...

 

[Tha Don]

didn't he say pre workout?

i'd advise 1-2 scoops of whey and a cup of oats oats around 1hr before lifting, and then creatine, taurine, bcaa's, glutamine, eca... or whatever 15-20 mins before hand

 

[mervin]

I will jump in on this thread. I have always been told that fructose is your worse enemy PWO. In the corner of the world I live in, all I can get as far as maltodex. is concerned is a mix called carbo blast that is made up of maltodextrin, dextrose........and fructose. Would it still be o.k. to use this mix PWO with a couple of scoups of whey? How "bad" would the fructose be?

 

[Tha Don]

I have always been told that fructose is your worse enemy PWO.

either you misunderstand what fructose is, or you've got it confused with fats PWO, i and quite a few others eat fruits PWO to help replenish liver glycogen and aid in creating an insulin spike, as fructose is a sugar and therefore fine PWO as far as i'm aware

 

[Emma-Leigh]

either you misunderstand what fructose is, or you've got it confused with fats PWO, i and quite a few others eat fruits PWO to help replenish liver glycogen and aid in creating an insulin spike, as fructose is a sugar and therefore fine PWO as far as i'm aware

Well... technically speaking, most fruit will not spike insulin...

But it is useful at helping to replenish both liver glycogen and muscle glycogen - which is useful in recovery (esp in glycogen depleting situations where liver glycogen stores have been left low).

 

[Moses]

Just for clarifacation about these post work out shakes:

Are these shakes intended as a meal or merely a shake after the workout, before a "real" meal? and does this differ for bulking / cutting?

I am under the impression that for cutting, you want a pwo shake of minimal protein after resistance training, wait for 30-60 mins, then eat a proper meal with carb, pro, and minimal fat. For a cardio workout, you skip the pwo shake, and wait 60 mins then have a carb and pro meal. Is this right?

Thanks

 

[Incognegro]

my preworkout being to get my body ready to lift and have the right nutrients (fuel) etc. ready for use.

and post to get the protein/rebuild and carb/energy back into the muscle as fast as possible to take advantage of that optimum "wide open" time window.


J

 

[Emma-Leigh]

Just for clarifacation about these post work out shakes:

Are these shakes intended as a meal or merely a shake after the workout, before a "real" meal?

It is a shake to be had after workout and before a solid meal....

and does this differ for bulking / cutting

In my opinion - for 95% of the population - no. Good Pre and PWO nutrition is universal regardless of what you are doing.

However, with that said, some people are doing competition diets/ are following cyclic diets which require some days to be free of specific foods and therefore it will be different for them.

I am under the impression that for cutting, you want a pwo shake of minimal protein after resistance training, wait for 30-60 mins, then eat a proper meal with carb, pro, and minimal fat.

Ummm... No. Where did you get that idea from? Why would you want to starve yourself after a weights workout when you are cutting?

The point of training while cutting (well, one of the points) is to help you retain lean mass when you are in calorie deficiency ...

Generally, at the end of a heavy weight session, your in a catabolic state - thus, not eating would only lengthen this and you would lose more muscle mass than it would be worth...


For me - the last place you drop calories from is around your workouts... So you should still get a good PWO shake (carbs + protein) + a solid meal meal (carbs, protein, fats) about 60-90 minutes after this.

For a cardio workout, you skip the pwo shake, and wait 60 mins then have a carb and pro meal. Is this right?

This depends on the cardio length, the goal of the cardio and the individual....

 

[Moses]

Hi Emma

Thanks for the response!

I had read from BFFM and BFL that after a workout, you should wait 30-60 mins before eating during cutting because that is when your body is searching for an energy source and if you ate a meal, your body would turn to that for energy. If you waited for 30-60 mins, you would then force your body to turn to your glycogen stores for energy. The reason for not waiting longer is that after that, you would start to burn your own muscle.

I'll check the books again (perhaps I misread!) but that is why I have always waited about 45 mins before this 'real meal' (not PWO shake)

The bit about the protein immediately after the workout, I found on this site:
http://www.hussmanfitness.org/html/TFPostProtein.html

I'm assuming this is the same as the "insulin spike" that are in alot of threads on this forum, debating if it is neccessary etc.. and possibly the PWO shake that this thread is about (is that right?)

From your post:

For me - the last place you drop calories from is around your workouts... So you should still get a good PWO shake (carbs + protein) + a solid meal meal (carbs, protein, fats) about 60-90 minutes after this.

I guess to clarify, how "big" of a shake should it be? What do you find as a good size (cals) ?

Sorry if this is so confusing! I'm thinking tho that we might be talking about the same thing.. the meal is 60 mins after, the PWO shake is the bit of protein and carb immediately after the workout. Have I got it right?

Thanks!!

Moses

Edit: After re-reading the previous post, perhaps my choice of words was misleading "you want a pwo shake of minimal protein after resistance training,". Where I mention minimal protein, should perhaps be minimal calories ( to avoid making the shake too high in cals so that it becomes the "meal" rather than an inbetween. Dunno if that's still not right tho! )