What's your chest routine?

[PreMier]

to say the least. I would love to see the level of intensity that is used to perform 36 sets.

Yea, but remember.. training is 50%. So he has to get all he can out of it.

 

[DamnHardGainer]

Holy overtraining!

Not really. That's what my regimen evolved to over 8 of 10 years to break through about 5 plateaus. Just a month ago I added those decline exercises on that list to add some emphasis to the lower pec line and gained 1 lb so far which is good for me. Took me 10 years to gain 30 ~ 40 lbs on my skinny frame.

Think about it this way, I basically structure that regimen like some people do for single exercises...dropping weight on the way down in sets. Naturally at the exercises at the top of the list are my primaries where I use the most weight. The bottom 3 and half the exercises in general are for isolation and shaping the muscles anyway. If I was overtraining I wouldn't be making gains every week in reps and more weight. Plus when I overtrain my body starts to shut down and I get fevers at night, get nightmares, and recuperation time doubles.

As for intensity, it takes me 2 hours to get through that work out but I usually can hardly walk afterwards and am close to puking from the effort. If you think that's such an extreme workout you either don't push yourself enough or aren't at that stage with your own body's genetic limit.

Now last month I definately was overtraining. For 3 months I didn't make any strength gains on chest. Why? Well I was doing 25 sets of that routine I posted twice a week, split between flat chest and upper, mondays and wednesdays. After I joined them back into one day, despite using 5~10% less weight in some exercises, I started making gains again thanks to the extra two days of recuperation time. When I hit another plateau I'll change it up again but for now this is working great for me.

 

[min0 lee]

If it works for you then the best of luck, thats just too much for me.

 

[PreMier]

Not really. That's what my regimen evolved to over 8 of 10 years to break through about 5 plateaus. Just a month ago I added those decline exercises on that list to add some emphasis to the lower pec line and gained 1 lb so far which is good for me. Took me 10 years to gain 30 ~ 40 lbs on my skinny frame.

Think about it this way, I basically structure that regimen like some people do for single exercises...dropping weight on the way down in sets. Naturally at the exercises at the top of the list are my primaries where I use the most weight. The bottom 3 and half the exercises in general are for isolation and shaping the muscles anyway. If I was overtraining I wouldn't be making gains every week in reps and more weight. Plus when I overtrain my body starts to shut down and I get fevers at night, get nightmares, and recuperation time doubles.

As for intensity, it takes me 2 hours to get through that work out but I usually can hardly walk afterwards and am close to puking from the effort. If you think that's such an extreme workout you either don't push yourself enough or aren't at that stage with your own body's genetic limit.

Now last month I definately was overtraining. For 3 months I didn't make any strength gains on chest. Why? Well I was doing 25 sets of that routine I posted twice a week, split between flat chest and upper, mondays and wednesdays. After I joined them back into one day, despite using 5~10% less weight in some exercises, I started making gains again thanks to the extra two days of recuperation time. When I hit another plateau I'll change it up again but for now this is working great for me.

Shaping muscles? 2 hours in the gym? Amazing..

 

[DamnHardGainer]

If it works for you then the best of luck, thats just too much for me.

I think everyone is different and everyone responds differently to each routine and has to learn what is best for their body over time. There's a guy I know in the gym who has a very similar build to me, but is a little taller and has a little thicker bone structure. He has very little variety in his workout but he does tons of sets with very heavy weight -- and it works for him and that's all that counts IMO. Frankly his stamina to maintain such heavy weight throughout is impressive to me. I don't have that kind of stamina so I compensate in more exercises to hit more angles that aren't so fatigued.

 

[P-funk]

declines for the lower pec line??

interesting. I should try that. Never even thought of it!!

 

[PreMier]

declines for the lower pec line??

interesting. I should try that. Never even thought of it!!

Jesus, how could I miss that? This guy is starting to sound like Johnnny..

 

[DamnHardGainer]

Shaping muscles? 2 hours in the gym? Amazing..

Looking at your shapeless upper chest there, it's no wonder you're amazed. I'm sure you do 25 sets of flat bench.

 

[DamnHardGainer]

declines for the lower pec line??

interesting. I should try that. Never even thought of it!!

Page 330, Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding, 1998. Read it sometime. Rumor has it the author actually knows a bit about the subject.

 

[PreMier]

Looking at your shapeless upper chest there, it's no wonder you're amazed. I'm sure you do 25 sets of flat bench.

You obviously know nothing about the human body, and how it works(read physiology). Otherwise you wouldn't make such an asinine statement. I do less than 10 sets btw.

 

[P-funk]

Page 330, Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding, 1998. Read it sometime. Rumor has it the author actually knows a bit about the subject.

who is the author??


I guess i need to do more reading.

 

[pumpthatiron]

lol man this is hilarious, he claims to be a hard gainer when he is doing 36 sets per body part. And he claims there is a way to shape the muscle! And he knows about decline working the lower pec line! Man I have a lot to learn from this guy...

 

[DamnHardGainer]

You obviously know nothing about the human body, and how it works(read physiology). Otherwise you wouldn't make such an asinine statement. I do less than 10 sets btw.

I'm sorry you completely missed the sarcasm in my post.

 

[DamnHardGainer]

who is the author??


I guess i need to do more reading.

I hope you're kidding.

 

[seven11]

hey hardgainner i do u talk shit bout how other people look but u dont even post a pic... ur probrebly some skinny ass that doesnt even lift.. so u come on these boards to feed ur ego and feel beter bout ur bonny ass

 

[PreMier]

I'm sorry you completely missed the sarcasm in my post.

The sarcasm of my 'shapless upper chest' or the '25 sets on flat bench'?

Just because you have been training X amount of years, doesnt mean you know what your doing.. and by the posts I have seen so far, I think you should read more and post less.

 

[seven11]

hey damnhardgainner are they back together?????

 

[DamnHardGainer]

I am truly amazed at the ignorance on display regarding "shaping" of muscles, ie sculpting, ie weak point training, ie bringing out definition, separation, and striations through isolation training. And you people are criticizing my routine?

"...focusing on your weak points, so having as complete a physique as possible becomes essential. In my case, this meant doing a greater proportion of higher-rep isolation training, making sure I sculpted each muscle and acheived the greatest amount of definition and separation possible." p. 146 Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger

"Isolation training involves focusing your efforts on a specific muscle or muscle group or even part of a muscle in isolation from other muscles. ... An exercise like Dumbbell Flys, on the other hand, works the pecs in isolation and lets you hit them with maximum intensity. As a further step, you can do Incline DB Flys as a way of isolating the upper pecs. Carrying this to an even further extreme, you can perform Incline Cable Crossovers, making special effort to cross your hands and get a maximum Peak Contraction of the test. This would isolate and develop the inner area of the upper pecs.

Isolation training can allow you to develop every part of your physique completely, bringing up an weak areas and helping to acheive the degree of muscle separation and definition necessary for that sculpted, champion look." P.190 Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger

"The bodybuilder's physique is a carefully balanced combination of many factors, including shape, proportion, and symmetry. Bodybuilding has been compared to sculpture, with the bodybuilder creating and shaping a physique the way the artist sculpts a statue from marble or granite. For the bodybuilder, the only material he has to work with is muscle.

The exercises and training principles you learned in Basic Trainig Program are not enough to give you total control over your body that is needed to develop a sculpted, championship physique. You need more and different kinds of exercises, a knowledge of how to design your workouts to get very specific results, and an ability to generate sufficient intensity so your body will continue to grow and change. You can't leave any muscle groups out. You must include everything -- the forearms, the two major calf muscles, the lower back, the rear delts, the serratus, and the intercostals. And it isn't enough to have big muscles. For the chest, for example, you need upper, lower, and middle pecs, inner and outer fullness and development.
...
Summing up, the specific goals you will be working toward in Advanced Training Technique workouts will include:

1. Develop extra mass and, eventually, muscle shape.
2. Focusing not just on muscle mass but on the details of each muscle group as well.
3. Creating a physique with the aesthetic qualities of balance, proportion, and symmetry.
4. Working on the separation between muscles and the major muscle groups.
5. Learning to totally control your physical development so that you are able to correct imbalances, weak points, and problem areas. P.201 Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger

I think I'll listen to a seven-time Mr. Olympia over some jokers on a forum, thanks.

 

[DamnHardGainer]

The sarcasm of my 'shapless upper chest' or the '25 sets on flat bench'?

Just because you have been training X amount of years, doesnt mean you know what your doing.. and by the posts I have seen so far, I think you should read more and post less.

Sarcasm on 25 sets of flat bench.

As for posting, several of you are living examples that post counts are not a direct measure of knowledge or wisdom. My point was never about lifting for 10 years - time is not always a reliable measure of experience - after all even if you do nothing it marches on, but lifting for 10 years with my own body does make me far more informed regarding matters of what works for me. I get results that I am happy with and that's all the proof I need. Meanwhile, you and others are quick to draw basic assumptions and criticise with an overall lack of first-hand information regarding another person. That's known in some circles as being a dick.

 

[John Rambo]

What does your chest routine typically look like guys and gals?

I just recently started doing chest once a week as follows:
Flat bench
Incline bench
Decline bench
Flys
Close grip bench

About 4 sets of each. So far has worked well for me.

 

[pumpthatiron]

naw hardgainer, that's just because your screen name is kinda whining that you don't grow as fast as most people. That's why we are trying to help you out with where your problems lie. 36 sets is insanely high.

 

[PreMier]

I am truly amazed at the ignorance on display regarding "shaping" of muscles, ie sculpting, ie weak point training, ie bringing out definition, separation, and striations through isolation training. And you people are criticizing my routine?

"...focusing on your weak points, so having as complete a physique as possible becomes essential. In my case, this meant doing a greater proportion of higher-rep isolation training, making sure I sculpted each muscle and acheived the greatest amount of definition and separation possible." p. 146 Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger

"Isolation training involves focusing your efforts on a specific muscle or muscle group or even part of a muscle in isolation from other muscles. ... An exercise like Dumbbell Flys, on the other hand, works the pecs in isolation and lets you hit them with maximum intensity. As a further step, you can do Incline DB Flys as a way of isolating the upper pecs. Carrying this to an even further extreme, you can perform Incline Cable Crossovers, making special effort to cross your hands and get a maximum Peak Contraction of the test. This would isolate and develop the inner area of the upper pecs.

Isolation training can allow you to develop every part of your physique completely, bringing up an weak areas and helping to acheive the degree of muscle separation and definition necessary for that sculpted, champion look." P.190 Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger

"The bodybuilder's physique is a carefully balanced combination of many factors, including shape, proportion, and symmetry. Bodybuilding has been compared to sculpture, with the bodybuilder creating and shaping a physique the way the artist sculpts a statue from marble or granite. For the bodybuilder, the only material he has to work with is muscle.

The exercises and training principles you learned in Basic Trainig Program are not enough to give you total control over your body that is needed to develop a sculpted, championship physique. You need more and different kinds of exercises, a knowledge of how to design your workouts to get very specific results, and an ability to generate sufficient intensity so your body will continue to grow and change. You can't leave any muscle groups out. You must include everything -- the forearms, the two major calf muscles, the lower back, the rear delts, the serratus, and the intercostals. And it isn't enough to have big muscles. For the chest, for example, you need upper, lower, and middle pecs, inner and outer fullness and development.
...
Summing up, the specific goals you will be working toward in Advanced Training Technique workouts will include:

1. Develop extra mass and, eventually, muscle shape.
2. Focusing not just on muscle mass but on the details of each muscle group as well.
3. Creating a physique with the aesthetic qualities of balance, proportion, and symmetry.
4. Working on the separation between muscles and the major muscle groups.
5. Learning to totally control your physical development so that you are able to correct imbalances, weak points, and problem areas. P.201 Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger

I think I'll listen to a seven-time Mr. Olympia over some jokers on a forum, thanks.

You are one dumb mother fucker Johnnny. You stick out like a sore thumb. You cant shape a muscle, its not possible sorry. Your right though, everyone here is a joker, you cant be wrong, can you? Read this, courtesy of belial.

The existence of the so-called "upper", "lower", "inner" and "outer" pectorals along with the assertion that it is possible to isolate one or more of these to the relative exclusion of the others in training, are among the most firmly entrenched myths in Strength Training and Bodybuilding circles. In fact none of these truly exist as either separate and distinct muscles or regions in a functional sense. Even though it could be argued that there appears to be a structural distinction between the upper and lower pectorals (and some anatomy texts do in fact support this distinction though not all do) because the pectoralis-major does originate from both the sternum and the proximal or sternal half of the clavicle along it???s anterior surface (it also has connections to the cartilages of all the true ribs with the frequent exception of the first and seventh, and to the Aponeurosis of the external oblique muscle), this is considered to be a common (though extensive) origin in terms of the mechanical function of the muscle. Thus the pectoralis-major is in fact for all practical purposes one continuous muscle with a common origin and insertion, and functions as a single force-producing unit. The terms upper, lower, inner and outer are imprecise and relevant only in order to make a vague subjective distinction between relative portions of the same muscle for descriptive purposes. They are vague and imprecise terms because there is no clearly delineated or universally defined border between them.
Further it is not physically possible either in theory or practice to contract one region of a single muscle to the exclusion of another region or regions (as a Biomechanics Professor of mine once demonstrated to a bunch of us smart-ass know-it-all???s taking his course, using EMG analysis). When a muscle contracts it does so in a linear fashion by simultaneously reducing the length of its constituent fibers and thus its overall length from origin to insertion. Even where a single muscle is separated into multiple functional units that are clearly defined such as the triceps (which are referred to as ???heads??? by Anatomists and Biomechanists), because they share a common point of insertion in order for one head to shorten all must shorten. This only makes sense if you think about it because otherwise there would be ???slack??? in one when the other shortened, which as we know does not occur. Note that there are some special cases where one head of a muscle must actually lengthen when the other shortens (e.g. the posterior head of the deltoid in relation to the anterior head during the positive stroke of fly???s), the point however is that even in these special cases there is no ???slack??? because there is in fact contractile activity (whether concentric or eccentric) throughout the muscle.

That is not to say however, that all fibers in different areas, or heads are necessarily shortened to the same degree during a particular movement. Depending on the shape of the muscle, the joint geometry involved, and the specific movement being performed, fibers in one area of a muscle or head may be required to shorten more or less than in others (or even to lengthen) in order to complete the required movement. For example during a decline fly though muscle fibers in all regions of the pectoralis-major must shorten as the upper arm is drawn towards the median plane of the body, because of the angle of the arm in relation to the trunk the fibers in what we commonly refer to as the lower pecs will have shortened by a greater percentage of their overall length than those in the upper region of the muscle by the completion of the movement. Conversely when performing an incline fly there is greater shortening in the fibers towards the upper portion of the muscle than in the lower.

Many proponents of the so-called ???isolation??? approach to training claim that this proportionally greater shortening of the fibers equates to greater tension in the ???target??? region than in others, and therefore stimulates greater adaptation; but this is completely at odds with the cross-bridge model of muscle contraction which clearly shows that as fiber length decreases tension also declines due to increasing overlap and interference in the area of the cross-bridges. Some also contend that the fibers called upon to shorten to a greater degree tend to fatigue faster than others and that therefore there is greater overall fiber recruitment in the region where this occurs, and thus a greater stimulus to growth; but there is no evidence to suggest that a fiber fatigues faster in one position than in another in relation to other fibers in the same muscle. In fact it has been shown that Time Under Tension (TUT) is the determining factor in fatigue and not fiber length. In fact fiber recruitment tends to increase in a very uniform fashion throughout an entire muscle as fatigue sets in.

The ability to ???isolate??? a head, or region of a muscle to the exclusion of others by performing a particular movement, or by limiting movement to a particular plane and thus develop it to a greater degree, is a myth created by people who wish to appear more knowledgeable than they are, and has been perpetuated by trade magazines and parroted throughout gyms everywhere. It is pure non-sense and completely ignores the applicable elements of physiology, anatomy, and physics in particular. Quite simply the science does not support it, and in most cases is completely at odds with the idea.
Regardless of the science however, many people will remain firmly convinced that muscle isolation is a reality because they can ???feel??? different movements more in one region of a muscle than in others. This I do not dispute, nor does science. There is in fact differentiated neural feedback from motor units depending on the relative length of the component fibers, and this feedback tends to be (or is interpreted by the brain as) more intense when the fibers in question are either shortened (contracted) or lengthened (stretched) in the extreme. However this has to do with proprioception (the ability to sense the orientation and relative position of your body in space by interpreting neural feedback related to muscle fiber length and joint position) and not tension, fatigue, or level of fiber recruitment. Unfortunately it has been seized upon and offered up as ???evidence??? by those looking to support their ideas by any means available.

Muscle shape is a function of genetics and degree of overall development. As you develop a muscle towards its potential, it does change in appearance (generally for the better) but always within the parameters defined by its inherent shape. A person who tends to have proportionately more mass towards the upper, lower, inner or outer region of his or her pectoralis-major will always have that tendency, though it may be more or less apparent at various stages in their development, and in most cases appears less pronounced as overall development proceeds. That is not to say that training a muscle group from multiple angles is totally without value. In fact we know that even subtly different movements can elicit varying levels of fiber recruitment within a muscle in an overall sense (i.e. in terms of the percentage of total available fibers) due to differences in joint mechanics, and neural activation patterns, as well as varying involvement of synergistic and antagonistic muscle groups involved. So by all means experiment with different angles in your training, but don???t expect to be able to correct so-called ???unbalanced??? muscles this way, or to target specific areas of a particular muscle. Work to develop each of your muscles as completely as possible and shape will take care of itself. If you want to worry about ???shaping??? you should pay more attention to the balance between different muscle groups and work to bring up any weak groups you may have in relation to the rest of your physique.

 

[soxmuscle]

 

[brian2440]

I am glad to see this post. I have been doing 24 sets for chest.

incline bb, decline bb, flat bb. 3 set each
incline db, decline db, flat, db. 3 set each
one fly movement and one cable movement. I guess I have been way overtraing, but I get this done in a hour. How many sets should I do?

 

[pumpthatiron]

brian you can do anywhere from as low as 6 sets to as high as 12 sets. I guess upto 15 is very high volume but alright.

 

[pumpthatiron]

6-9 extremely intense sets for me...

 

[V Player]

Yup. Thats johnny alright. Lower pec line....asinine routines....immediate slams on PreMier, whom we all know he hates almost as much as Duncan..... defensiveness right off the bat......and references to his idol, Arnold.




Johnny, johnny, johnny...... when the hell are you going to learn that you cannot decieve people that were already smarter than you in third grade than when you were in high school with the same see-through antics?

 

[brian2440]

6-9 extremely intense sets for me...

Yea I got on here reading p-funks journal and I see that I am way overtraining. I try to get as many sets in an hour as I can. I guess that is way to much. Maybe I just need to step intensity up. In my mind 9 sets in not enough, but I am just a newbie and I am wrong. Maybe that is why I am so tired all the time? Could overtraing hinder fat loss?

 

[seven11]

god damn it... anwser my damn question hardgainer>>> are they back together????

 

[DamnHardGainer]

You are one dumb mother fucker Johnnny. You stick out like a sore thumb. You cant shape a muscle, its not possible sorry. Your right though, everyone here is a joker, you cant be wrong, can you? Read this, courtesy of belial.

Aw. Someone just can't take what they dish out. Did I really get to you that much? Are you going to take me off your buddy list now? What a big baby you are.

The existence of the so-called "upper", "lower", "inner" and "outer" pectorals along with the assertion....
....

....

....

....

You hear that Arnold? You're a know-nothing amateur! I want my $25 back!