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What's your chest routine?

pumpthatiron said:
naw hardgainer, that's just because your screen name is kinda whining that you don't grow as fast as most people. That's why we are trying to help you out with where your problems lie. 36 sets is insanely high.

Or...could it possibly mean that I have to work damn hard for every ounce but that makes it that much more satisfying to me when I see the results? I'd love for someone to point out the post I made describing any problems training or desire for advice considering I never did so. And that would be because no problems exist.

Good thing I didn't call myself "Mr. Ectomorph Here Please Advise". Then I'd really get the uninvited personal training from the Coalition of People With Sticks In Their Asses.
 
V Player said:
Yup. Thats johnny alright. Lower pec line....asinine routines....immediate slams on PreMier, whom we all know he hates almost as much as Duncan..... defensiveness right off the bat......and references to his idol, Arnold.

Premier probably gets picked on because he's an abrasive prick. You know, that same tool you meet in every gym who gives you unwanted training advice when you didn't ask for it.

As for your schizophrenia, ask the moderator to publish my IP. You have a lot of military readership from Japan? Doubt it. But if it makes you feel better, do carry on, I insist.
 
DamnHardGainer said:
I am truly amazed at your ignorance on display regarding "shaping" of muscles, ie sculpting, ie weak point training, ie bringing out definition, separation, and striations through isolation training.
Im truely amazed at your ignorance basing all your knowledge on one source. Just because you've revised every page of "Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger" (which by the way was written in 1998 making it pretty dated in terms of science) does not make you an expert.

its strange you posted the following in the brad pitt thread in refference to LAM

DamnHardGainer said:
Riiight. A 245 lb endo-mesomorph trying to give a 165 lb ectomorph advice on what works best for his body
And yet here you are in another thread reeling off quotes from a book written by a guy with probably some of the best genetics ever seen in bodybuilding and whos off-season weight was 250-260lbs :tard:
 
DamnHardGainer said:
Premier probably gets picked on because he's an abrasive prick. You know, that same tool you meet in every gym who gives you unwanted training advice when you didn't ask for it.

As for your schizophrenia, ask the moderator to publish my IP. You have a lot of military readership from Japan? Doubt it. But if it makes you feel better, do carry on, I insist.
Calling PreMier a prick..... just like johnny calls everyone a prick.... then accusing me of a disease whose symptoms dont even begin to resemble I did....



Johnny.




Ok, Damnhardgainer. Its really simple. You want the feuding to stop? You want to be taken seriously? (you obviously do if you keep coming back here or else you wouldnt give a flip) Post a picture with a sign saying you're DHG from IronMagazine.
 
Borrowed from Rob

Isolating the upper, middle and lower pecs (chest)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a very common question and debated topic, personally I believe that it is not possible to isolate any part of a single muscle, i.e. the pectorial major.

The following "article" explains in great detail why this is not possible. Credit goes to Belial from another board (I do not know his real name).


Quote:
The existence of the so-called "upper", "lower", "inner" and "outer" pectorals along with the assertion that it is possible to isolate one or more of these to the relative exclusion of the others in training, are among the most firmly entrenched myths in Strength Training and Bodybuilding circles. In fact none of these truly exist as either separate and distinct muscles or regions in a functional sense. Even though it could be argued that there appears to be a structural distinction between the upper and lower pectorals (and some anatomy texts do in fact support this distinction though not all do) because the pectoralis-major does originate from both the sternum and the proximal or sternal half of the clavicle along it???s anterior surface (it also has connections to the cartilages of all the true ribs with the frequent exception of the first and seventh, and to the Aponeurosis of the external oblique muscle), this is considered to be a common (though extensive) origin in terms of the mechanical function of the muscle. Thus the pectoralis-major is in fact for all practical purposes one continuous muscle with a common origin and insertion, and functions as a single force-producing unit. The terms upper, lower, inner and outer are imprecise and relevant only in order to make a vague subjective distinction between relative portions of the same muscle for descriptive purposes. They are vague and imprecise terms because there is no clearly delineated or universally defined border between them.
Further it is not physically possible either in theory or practice to contract one region of a single muscle to the exclusion of another region or regions (as a Biomechanics Professor of mine once demonstrated to a bunch of us smart-ass know-it-all???s taking his course, using EMG analysis). When a muscle contracts it does so in a linear fashion by simultaneously reducing the length of its constituent fibers and thus its overall length from origin to insertion. Even where a single muscle is separated into multiple functional units that are clearly defined such as the triceps (which are referred to as ???heads??? by Anatomists and Biomechanists), because they share a common point of insertion in order for one head to shorten all must shorten. This only makes sense if you think about it because otherwise there would be ???slack??? in one when the other shortened, which as we know does not occur. Note that there are some special cases where one head of a muscle must actually lengthen when the other shortens (e.g. the posterior head of the deltoid in relation to the anterior head during the positive stroke of fly???s), the point however is that even in these special cases there is no ???slack??? because there is in fact contractile activity (whether concentric or eccentric) throughout the muscle.

That is not to say however, that all fibers in different areas, or heads are necessarily shortened to the same degree during a particular movement. Depending on the shape of the muscle, the joint geometry involved, and the specific movement being performed, fibers in one area of a muscle or head may be required to shorten more or less than in others (or even to lengthen) in order to complete the required movement. For example during a decline fly though muscle fibers in all regions of the pectoralis-major must shorten as the upper arm is drawn towards the median plane of the body, because of the angle of the arm in relation to the trunk the fibers in what we commonly refer to as the lower pecs will have shortened by a greater percentage of their overall length than those in the upper region of the muscle by the completion of the movement. Conversely when performing an incline fly there is greater shortening in the fibers towards the upper portion of the muscle than in the lower.

Many proponents of the so-called ???isolation??? approach to training claim that this proportionally greater shortening of the fibers equates to greater tension in the ???target??? region than in others, and therefore stimulates greater adaptation; but this is completely at odds with the cross-bridge model of muscle contraction which clearly shows that as fiber length decreases tension also declines due to increasing overlap and interference in the area of the cross-bridges. Some also contend that the fibers called upon to shorten to a greater degree tend to fatigue faster than others and that therefore there is greater overall fiber recruitment in the region where this occurs, and thus a greater stimulus to growth; but there is no evidence to suggest that a fiber fatigues faster in one position than in another in relation to other fibers in the same muscle. In fact it has been shown that Time Under Tension (TUT) is the determining factor in fatigue and not fiber length. In fact fiber recruitment tends to increase in a very uniform fashion throughout an entire muscle as fatigue sets in.

The ability to ???isolate??? a head, or region of a muscle to the exclusion of others by performing a particular movement, or by limiting movement to a particular plane and thus develop it to a greater degree, is a myth created by people who wish to appear more knowledgeable than they are, and has been perpetuated by trade magazines and parroted throughout gyms everywhere. It is pure non-sense and completely ignores the applicable elements of physiology, anatomy, and physics in particular. Quite simply the science does not support it, and in most cases is completely at odds with the idea.
Regardless of the science however, many people will remain firmly convinced that muscle isolation is a reality because they can ???feel??? different movements more in one region of a muscle than in others. This I do not dispute, nor does science. There is in fact differentiated neural feedback from motor units depending on the relative length of the component fibers, and this feedback tends to be (or is interpreted by the brain as) more intense when the fibers in question are either shortened (contracted) or lengthened (stretched) in the extreme. However this has to do with proprioception (the ability to sense the orientation and relative position of your body in space by interpreting neural feedback related to muscle fiber length and joint position) and not tension, fatigue, or level of fiber recruitment. Unfortunately it has been seized upon and offered up as ???evidence??? by those looking to support their ideas by any means available.

Muscle shape is a function of genetics and degree of overall development. As you develop a muscle towards its potential, it does change in appearance (generally for the better) but always within the parameters defined by its inherent shape. A person who tends to have proportionately more mass towards the upper, lower, inner or outer region of his or her pectoralis-major will always have that tendency, though it may be more or less apparent at various stages in their development, and in most cases appears less pronounced as overall development proceeds. That is not to say that training a muscle group from multiple angles is totally without value. In fact we know that even subtly different movements can elicit varying levels of fiber recruitment within a muscle in an overall sense (i.e. in terms of the percentage of total available fibers) due to differences in joint mechanics, and neural activation patterns, as well as varying involvement of synergistic and antagonistic muscle groups involved. So by all means experiment with different angles in your training, but don???t expect to be able to correct so-called ???unbalanced??? muscles this way, or to target specific areas of a particular muscle. Work to develop each of your muscles as completely as possible and shape will take care of itself. If you want to worry about ???shaping??? you should pay more attention to the balance between different muscle groups and work to bring up any weak groups you may have in relation to the rest of your physique.
.
 
DamnHardGainer said:
Looking at your shapeless upper chest there, it's no wonder you're amazed. I'm sure you do 25 sets of flat bench. :rolleyes:

He seems pretty big to me. :rolleyes:
He must be doing something right.
 
DamnHardGainer said:
Page 330, Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding, 1998. Read it sometime. Rumor has it the author actually knows a bit about the subject.

Doesn't Arnold have a ghostwriter do all his writing?
 
stu21Ldn said:
Im truely amazed at your ignorance basing all your knowledge on one source. Just because you've revised every page of "Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Arnold Schwarzenegger" (which by the way was written in 1998 making it pretty dated in terms of science) does not make you an expert.

its strange you posted the following in the brad pitt thread in refference to LAM


And yet here you are in another thread reeling off quotes from a book written by a guy with probably some of the best genetics ever seen in bodybuilding and whos off-season weight was 250-260lbs :tard:
Thanks.

I was just going to tell him to take his ball and go home.

Or...

"Begun, the Johnnny Clone Wars, has."
 
cfs3 said:
Thanks.

I was just going to tell him to take his ball and go home.

Or...

"Begun, the Johnnny Clone Wars, has."

This is scary.....you kill one and another "Johnnny" arises.
 
Muscle Gelz Transdermals
IronMag Labs Prohormones
Sort of like IRobot.... :shake:

I really have no problem with people like them at all, I like to hear both sides of the argument but the name calling and cursing is really not needed.

You can learn from good debates but the dissing.....well that's what we have open chat for I guess.

I really disagree with his routine but if he thinks that works for him fine, but if I you hard gainer when you change your routine try doing less and see if you make more gains.
I always change my routines every now and then, the human body adapts very well.
 
What are "pullovers" and/or "flys"?

I do Bench, Incline Bench, Decline Bench, Peck Deck Machine, and Narrow Grip Bench. Im not too hot on the narrow grip bench so Im very interested in a new excersize.
 
CancerNV said:
What are "pullovers" and/or "flys"?

I do Bench, Incline Bench, Decline Bench, Peck Deck Machine, and Narrow Grip Bench. Im not too hot on the narrow grip bench so Im very interested in a new excersize.

I prefer to use narrow (close) grip bench press for triceps.
 
flat bench 4 sets
incline bench 4 sets
flys 4 sets

or flat dumbells
incline dumbells
deep dips

and i switch all these excercises around every chest workout

i dont fuck with decline too often
 
min0 lee said:
I prefer to use narrow (close) grip bench press for triceps.
So does anything hit the middle chest area at least a little bit?
 
CancerNV said:
So does anything hit the middle chest area at least a little bit?

lol, yea bench press flat

edit- oh do you mean inner chest?
well it doesnt matter all chest movements will "hit" all parts of the chest

Certain moves just emphasize sections more
 
Nice post Jake, I remember that thread back from when Belial posted that.
 
DamnHardGainer said:
Aw. Someone just can't take what they dish out. Did I really get to you that much? Are you going to take me off your buddy list now? What a big baby you are.



You hear that Arnold? You're a know-nothing amateur! I want my $25 back! :rolleyes:

I knew you wouldnt have the sense to read that article. You obviously cant comprehend its complexity. If you could, you would have realised that Arnolds book is weak when trying to debate such an issue.
You know, you were banned for a reason.
 
V Player said:
Calling PreMier a prick..... just like johnny calls everyone a prick.... then accusing me of a disease whose symptoms dont even begin to resemble I did....



Johnny.




Ok, Damnhardgainer. Its really simple. You want the feuding to stop? You want to be taken seriously? (you obviously do if you keep coming back here or else you wouldnt give a flip) Post a picture with a sign saying you're DHG from IronMagazine.

Thats a good idea. Better yet, a sign that says "Johnnny is a little bitch" :)
 
PreMier said:
I knew you wouldnt have the sense to read that article. You obviously cant comprehend its complexity. If you could, you would have realised that Arnolds book is weak when trying to debate such an issue.
You know, you were banned for a reason.

That's it? I thought you'd have a more spirited rebuttal but instead I'm left disappointed. When the author of that article looks like Arnold did and achieves his level of success, perhaps I consider it more than just one more piece of pointless rhetoric over an issue that is better "debated" by the proof of results. After all, there are still articles out there that claim creatine is a sham. I'm sure they can also be found in your personal library under "fiction".

As for being this guy or that guy, come on, run my IP. I've been stationed in Japan since 2002. It's real simple. I doubt anyone else in the history of this forum was quite as witty and eloquent as myself anyway. :laugh:
 
min0 lee said:
I really disagree with his routine but if he thinks that works for him fine, but if I you hard gainer when you change your routine try doing less and see if you make more gains.
I always change my routines every now and then, the human body adapts very well.

I've tried that. My routine has grown the way it has because it's the only way I've been able to break through each plateau. So over the years I've had to add more exercises and cut a few out. My problem with such large routines isn't overtraining the muscle anymore, it's the tendonitis I get in my elbows and forearms. If it's particularly bad in a certain week, I cut out a few exercises to lower the load or take a day off.
 
DamnHardGainer said:
That's it? I thought you'd have a more spirited rebuttal but instead I'm left disappointed. When the author of that article looks like Arnold did and achieves his level of success, perhaps I consider it more than just one more piece of pointless rhetoric over an issue that is better "debated" by the proof of results. After all, there are still articles out there that claim creatine is a sham. I'm sure they can also be found in your personal library under "fiction".

As for being this guy or that guy, come on, run my IP. I've been stationed in Japan since 2002. It's real simple. I doubt anyone else in the history of this forum was quite as witty and eloquent as myself anyway. :laugh:

I cant believe you base what you listen to, or even read on what someone looks like. Thats extremely ignorant IMO. If you would have read what I posted, then you would have realized that the individual that wrote it, is very well educated on the matter. Also, how do you know that he is not more successful that Arnold? You dont. But instead, you base your petty knowledge off of someone who had good genetics and juiced their brains out. Do you pop your dbol with a swig of beer too? :rolleyes: Also, you think creatine is a sham? Since you dont agree with me, and they are in my 'fictional library' I am led to believe you do. Your ignorance is starting to ooze from your posts now John boy.

As for the IP. Anyone can get a spoofer, any 12 year old with an internet connection knows that. The only way to prove otherwise, is like V Playes suggested. Prove us wrong, and I'll apologise.. but no one is as redundant, and thick headedly stupid as Johnnny.. and your starting to fit the bill nicely.
 
min0 lee said:
He seems pretty big to me. :rolleyes:
He must be doing something right.

If I thought "big" was something to admire, I'd consider Ronnie the pinnacle of success in the sport. However shape, separation, definition, and symmetry are far more impressive to me and so I hold Frank Zane and Steve Reeves as my ideal forms instead. That's what I was alluding to.
 
PreMier said:
I cant believe you base what you listen to, or even read on what someone looks like. Thats extremely ignorant IMO. If you would have read what I posted, then you would have realized that the individual that wrote it, is very well educated on the matter. Also, how do you know that he is not more successful that Arnold? You dont. But instead, you base your petty knowledge off of someone who had good genetics and juiced their brains out. Do you pop your dbol with a swig of beer too? :rolleyes: Also, you think creatine is a sham? Since you dont agree with me, and they are in my 'fictional library' I am led to believe you do. Your ignorance is starting to ooze from your posts now John boy.

As for the IP. Anyone can get a spoofer, any 12 year old with an internet connection knows that. The only way to prove otherwise, is like V Playes suggested. Prove us wrong, and I'll apologise.. but no one is as redundant, and thick headedly stupid as Johnnny.. and your starting to fit the bill nicely.

You are really quite lacking in reading comprehension. First off, I compared your article to those silly back-and-forth scientific duels that include whether creatine is a sham. NOT that I believe that, though that should have been obvious from the context. Must I spoon feed you every thing I type in small chewable portions?

Second, any site admin can see through proxies by examining the packets, contacting the proxy admin, etc. I know this as an information systems major, but you apparently do not. You're simply avoiding this because you know I am right. I already invited your site mods to publish my IP or investigate it. Would you like to call Misawa AFB? I bet you're not confident enough to do so because you'll get proven wrong, which of course you know you are.

Lastly, how do I know he's not more successful than Arnold? Gee...could it be because there are about 10 people on this planet that are? Nah.
 
V Player said:
Ok, Damnhardgainer. Its really simple. You want the feuding to stop? You want to be taken seriously? (you obviously do if you keep coming back here or else you wouldnt give a flip) Post a picture with a sign saying you're DHG from IronMagazine.

I love spirited debating. Nothing can be more entertaining than clowning guys like Premier, so please, I insist. I already posted earlier or maybe on the brad pitt thread that I'll get some pics up when I get to Florida. I fly in next week from Japan so as soon as I find a gym membership there I should be able to do so.

But I must decline on the sign. How about: "Premier wishes he looks like me"? Ha! My girlfriend will think this whole thing is quite silly and perhaps a bit childish, but I'm sure she'll be a good sport and take the picture. ;)
 
DamnHardGainer said:
You are really quite lacking in reading comprehension. First off, I compared your article to those silly back-and-forth scientific duels that include whether creatine is a sham. NOT that I believe that, though that should have been obvious from the context. Must I spoon feed you every thing I type in small chewable portions?

Second, any site admin can see through proxies by examining the packets, contacting the proxy admin, etc. I know this as an information systems major, but you apparently do not. You're simply avoiding this because you know I am right. I already invited your site mods to publish my IP or investigate it. Would you like to call Misawa AFB? I bet you're not confident enough to do so because you'll get proven wrong, which of course you know you are.

Lastly, how do I know he's not more successful than Arnold? Gee...could it be because there are about 10 people on this planet that are? Nah.

How can you compare that article to something so trivial as 'scientists' debating the efficiency of creatine? Especially since you didn't read it.. Maybe if you decided to educate yourself on certain aspects of the sport(read training), then you wouldn't be such a hardgainer.

You should also know, that the site admin wont release your IP information to the public. I'm not avoiding anything, tell me your full name, rank, and IP address, along with a number to contact the base at. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. There are plenty of instances where I have been, and I learn from the experience. You on the other hand obviously do. Otherwise you would have a stronger argument on 'upper chest isolation' than some quotes from Arnold's book.

There are far more successful people than Arnold. If you would lift your head out of his lap for a few minutes, you might be able to see that.

As for clowning, I doubt anyone is laughing. The simple fact that you base your ideology on training off of someone who trained in the 70's is perplexing. Just think about it, you have been training for 10 years, and you have gained 40 lbs? I've done far better in less than the two I have been training, and there is no way I would want to lose 40lbs to look like you. Hold the sign up, saying whatever you want about me, just do it. As anyone can post a picture off of the net claiming it is themselves. This debate has grown pretty unproductive.. you should at least read the article, and enlighten yourself.
 
DamnHardGainer said:
I already posted earlier or maybe on the brad pitt thread that I'll get some pics up when I get to Florida. I fly in next week from Japan so as soon as I find a gym membership there I should be able to do so.
Well.....Im not sure how to take that. See the thing is is that we would all REALLY like for you not to be johnny. But you sure show a lot of similarities. Anyways, the whole debating thing may not altogether stop, but at least you wouldnt have to put up with having to read about that troll. It would cut the arguments and at least leave spirited debate, which PreMier is quite good at I assure you. He is no clown. And Id say that about him even if I didnt like him.

But I must decline on the sign. How about: "Premier wishes he looks like me"? Ha!
Eh, well....thats up to you how you want to identify yourself as "not johnny". But you might want to think about getting along with PreMier, he knows his shit and his body proves it. We have yet to see yours so......feel my drift? See Im also like you in a way in that people think my own personal training is overtraining or just plain retarted. I do 100 rep sets, light weight high reps and......oh, never mind. You know the drill; I dont "fit a category". Yet my training still works for me.



Anyways this is not about me. We dont care if the pic is from FLorida or Japan or Timbuktu, just post it identifying yourself so we can all quit calling you johnny and we can get back to real meaningful debate.
 
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