When I Lose Control......I Like It! Prop/Tren

[Cardinal]

Monday, May 16, 2005

Planned Cycle

Red Dragon Labs

W 1-6: 100mg Prop + 75mg Trenbolone Acetate EOD
W 7-10: Custom Nolvadex 40/30/20/20

Bodybuilding Goals

Nothing Drastic. This is planned as a short strength and minor recomposition cycle for summer. I hope to keep any muscle tissue built. This has yet to be a problem for me.

Lean Body Mass: 5lbs give or take
Thermogenesis: I'll be happy with any fat loss achieved. First time using Tren.

Strength Goals

I haven't had a good experience keeping strength gains over the last year on my pushing work. It seems like sometimes overnight, I lose a lot of what I have worked very hard for due perhaps to lack of CNS stimulation. I keep muscle fairly easily on the otherhand on account of my high eating capacity.

Therefore I am going to work very hard on pulling work. Particularly I am in good shape to work Deadlifts, Chins/Pullups, Curls and most any other pulling work you can think of. Grip work will be included as well. Pushing work will be done in higher rep ranges with a focus on hypertrophy. As usual I will adjust what and how I train for strength to accomodate what I am taking. I expect surprises and avoidance of injury is and will continue to be my main priority.

I will be doing cardio. Mainly the elliptical trainer and swimming. Additionally, I will log some hours doing lawn care as that is my primary business right now, other than being a student full time.

Starting Statistics

Bodyweight: 247 bloated
Gut: 41.5"
Arms: 17.75"
Blood Pressure: 127/73

Past Cycle History

You can find most of it in the cycle info section at Anabolicminds. My AAS cycle is logged at ironmagazineforums journal section.

3 Short PH/PS cycles
1 Long Ester AAS cycle (Test E based)

Additional Supplements

For Control of Gyno

Bromocriptine (2.5-5mg ED)
B6 (600mg ED)
Vitex
Arimidex (.25 mg ED at most)
Nolvadex (10mg ED)

I am also planning a couple of other measures to try and keep gyno at bay. My diet is going to be a eucaloric cutter more or less and I tend to notice fewer problems with gyno when I try a Protein Strictly Mother Fucker type diet. I need a hypocaloric diet if I expect much fat loss anyhow.

Also, I may need to completely drop the Prop from my arsenal or greatly reduce the dose. I shed hair very badly on Testosterone, and I am very gyno prone. If my hair stack proves ineffectual, I may just rid myself of the problem by switching to a Tren only cycle for awhile, libido be damned.

Hair Stack

I don't plan to use the following unless I have to. My best weapon so far has been simply getting rid of any testosterone used and also limiting use of AI's/anti-E's. I have used most of these in the past and they seemed fairly ineffectual at the time.

Nizoral Shampoo
Azaleic Acid
Spironolactone
Finasteride

For the sake of brevity, these are the only supplements I am listing. I don't have plans to use very many supps at all unless I really need to. The gyno prevention, I see as a must however.

Diet Information

I am going to keep to 2g/lb protein when I feel I can. I do however still have two protein induced heart arrhythmias that flare up much too often. They seem to be at their worst when I combine a lot of protein with really high calories. I will not be using whey protein at all as it directly causes me to have a sleeping arrhythmia right before bed each night. I don't have a problem with taking Ephedrine, Caffeine, Nicotine or any other similar stimulants, although I don't plan to use many of these during this cycle. Main protein sources will be Tuna, Casein, Egg Protein and Leanish Beef. That will have to do. Honestly calories will be a big problem. I am going to try to keep them as low as I can by sticking mainly to protein. But I make no major guarantees when the test kicks in. Sometimes I go a little nuts. That is another reason, I may go tren only part of the time or greatly reduce the test. In that instance I might slightly increase how much Tren I am using. Once again, I am aware of what this may do to my libido, but it may also be the only way to keep gyno down, hair loss down, calories low etc.

Start Date

Soon, definitely. I already have everything I need onhand. I have not yet done equal time on, equal time off. I took my last shot in early March. I have been off of everything but my multivitamin and fish oil for the past month plus. I am going to take a few days off of lifting right now before firing it up. I will be eating a mild hypocaloric diet during this time and doing cardio.

Updates will be made daily or whenever I hit the gym. I'll try to include as much detail as I can.

Any and all comments are welcome and encouraged. I am sure I have left some things out regarding my plan and I will be glad to clarify if needed.

 

[Cardinal]

I lied. Again. I am starting it up today.

Mother Fucker That Prop Hurts!!!!!!!!!! But I can still walk, just a minor limp, thats all! I'll be able to walk just fine in, hmmm, about 42 days. Day One successfully complete. I preloaded a few syringes to cut back on the work since I am doing this thing EOD.

I am starting B6 and Vitex today, bromo will commence tomorrow morning. I am going to give it a few days to one week before I start nolvadex or arimidex simply because they both should cause me major shedding and I don't want to confuse shedding from prop with shedding from nolva.

 

[Cardinal]

Day 2
Tuesday May 17, 2005

Modifications for the second day. Upon advice from Rhino, I am dropping bromocriptine and reducing the B6 dosage somewhat. I am already getting hypoglycemic from the bromo and would rather not deal with that side effect, especially since Vitex is supposed to do the same thing.

The pain from the prop injection is much reduced today. It dissipated somewhat about 2 hours after the initial inject. I am definitely not experiencing any swelling, which is a good sign.

Workout for Today

Swam for about 30 minutes. Need to work on building up my lung capacity somewhat. I also went and paid money to go work out at my old gym this summer. I like it better and the new one won't let me in their doors until May 31, 2005. We can't be having that. I don't intend to take that time off. Thankfully the aggression hasn't kicked in yet.

 

[ZECH]

Why only 6 weeks?

 

[Cardinal]

dg806,

I am using all short esters and am not at all sure how I will react to being on tren. I am actually hoping that I can make it all 6 weeks. My biggest concern is that I may lose so much hair that I have to stop. I am not all that confident in the hair care stack I am using now.

OTOH, if things go well and I don't lose much hair, you bet I am going to run it 8 weeks. Anything longer with tren and I would want the enanthate ester. I am going to see how recovery goes from a short cycle before even considering tren E.

 

[ZECH]

Yeah tren E will help on the # of sticks for sure. I bet you will lose hair no matter what you do especially if genetically inclined(mothers side).
I'm about willing to bet you like and say screw the hair!
You might get lucky and not get night sweats, but most do.

 

[Cardinal]

I am looking forward to the night sweats. Lets me know the stuffs working. Yep, I am going to be pretty adventuresome with my hair. I am not genetically inclined to go bald on either side of my family, but man do I shed on Test. That is why I am considering dropping the Prop if I must before abandoning the cycle.

I tend to go bald from the crown at the back first, so I may can make it longer than I think. But yeah, I am probably going to love the stuff. Especially as an endo. Will probably wish I had gotten more than 4.5 grams of it.

 

[Cardinal]

Day 3
Wednesday, May 18, 2005

Workout

HS High Row 160x2x10, 220x10, 240x5
DB Bent Rows 110x5, 90x2x8
Curls 60x6, 55x6, 50x6, 45x6, 40x6, 35x6, 30x6

Cardio

Elliptical 26:00, 400kcals, 75rpm, 170+ heartbeat

Workout Notes

I made an effort to do pullups and chins, but my elbow was quite sore from doing TBDL's the other day. In any event I don't think I would have been good for more than 2-3 at 244 lbs bodyweight. Got some work to do on those. I think I'll train them to increase my ability to do rep work. Haven't lost anything on curls yet. Still moving the 60's decently.

AAS Notes

I stuck myself in the ass about 10 hours ahead of time. No pain, can barely feel it now. It is probably just the location I shot, but I also heated the oil lightly. I am using a trick I read on meso. For glute shots I am putting all my weight on the other leg to relax as much as possible. Upper outer quadrant of course. Didn't notice much else but slightly fuller muscles and having to be careful how I roll out of bed in the morning. Haven't gotten any of the other sides I am used to on Test yet. I am getting that weird feeling where I look forward to giving myself shots. Hope it lasts.

 

[Cardinal]

Day 4
Thursday, May 19, 2005

Bodyweight: 245

Workout

19 Working Sets

CGBP 185x8, 195x6, 200x5
HS Decline 120x10, 140x7, 160x5
HS Incline 160x8, 200x7, 220x4
Leg Extensions 160,180,200x15, 220x12
HS Calf Raises 290x15+, 310x15+
HS Tricep Extensions 100x10, 120x10, 140x7
Laterals 30x10

Cardio

Elliptical 27:00, 400kcals, 70rpm, 165 heartbeat

I keep forgetting to take a blood pressure reading. Will do so at some point. Its not too high right now based on feel.

Workout Notes

Pumps were moderate, nothing special. So the prop isn't fully doing its thing yet. I have made a decision to rely more heavily on the Hammer Strength machines that I have access to on account of my joints. Those machines feel very comfortable and I don't think I am as likely to risk injury. The big three and a good bit of other stuff will still be done using free weights though. 1/2 and 1/2 mix probably.

It seems just knowing that I am on amps up my workouts somewhat. I lost a little leg strength on the extensions, but the rest of my work was exactly what I expected it to be. Some of the sets were a little too easy for me, letting me know the androgens are having their effect already. I am not yet stronger and will post when I get near PR territory.

AAS Notes

The Tren has started to work its magic. Last night I had insomnia and couldn't sleep for about three hours from 4 a.m. to 7 a.m. I felt the now very familiar AAS CNS stimulation effect that I have felt so often in the past from SuperDrol and M5AA etc. Same effect but amplified by the injectible form of the steroids I am using. So about 56 hours after my first shots I am noticing the effects pretty clearly. Insomnia like that shouldn't occur for me and prop should make me sleep like a baby. Will bust out the melatonin forthwith if it doesn't improve in a day or two.

This morning was the first morning I noticed increased shedding of hair. Seems its all starting to kick in at once. I have been dosing my Test/Tren mix a little more frequently than first planned and will continue to do so for the remainder of the first week, then will revert back to my original eod plan. Right now I am hitting the 36 hour mark pretty close with my shots.

Libido is definitely up and thankfully my appetite seems pretty well in check. Maybe it is the tren. Good God I hope so. Nothing to report in the way of excess sweating yet. I was quite cool last night. I expect all effects of the Tren including fat loss to manifest themselves by the middle of the second week.

So far I haven't noticed anything resembling puffy, sore or lumpy nipples. They are tighter and harder than usual. Maybe it is the tren and slightly reduced calories, but I am glad I don't have to start dosing Arimidex and Nolva yet, b/c I believe both will cause me even more hair loss from past experience.

 

[Cardinal]

Day 5, May 20, 2005

Cardio

Elliptical 45:00, 715 kcals, 75+ rpm, 165-175 heartbeat

Notes

I am going to lay off the cardio for a few days. Knees are giving me some trouble. I should know not to do it three days in a row. I feel great afterwards though.

Rather than yack about it here, I started a discussion in the anaoblics section concerning how I am going to combat hairloss on this short cycle. The link is as follows.

Hair Loss Prevention

 

[Cardinal]

Day 6, May 21, 2005

Bodyweight: 245

Workout

Conventional Deadlifts 295x3x5, 225x10
GM 135x8, 185x4
Side Bends 2 sets
Weighted Ab Machine 1 set

Workout Notes

Started light and easy on the deadlift. My form felt excellent overall and I experienced no pain whatsoever. Good start. I am weak as a kitten on goodmornings though. I had a partial ab cramp after my first set of crunches. This typically happens when I am on anabolics. So I stopped there. I had intended a longer more intense ab workout to finish the day, but it just isn't in the cards this cycle.

AAS Notes

For now, I have dropped the Prop out of my arsenal based on feedback from other users and my current shedding problem. I also haven't been having luck with Spiro/AA/Nizoral so far, so I am going to see if this fixes the problem.

I am really hoping to notice a significant strength boost by Monday. Definitely I am still noticing appetite suppression from the Tren. Can't reiterate enough how pleasant that is.

 

[M.J.H.]

Workouts are looking solid bro, keep it up. Good luck with the cycle as well.

 

[Cardinal]

May 22, 2005

Workout

Lawn Care 6.5 hours

Notes

Didn't do so great on the diet front. Definitely went way too long without anything to eat. Good for fat and water loss, bad for building muscle.

Doing lawn care all day is a heck of a lot different than the type of cardio I do in the gym. Not exactly back breaking stuff but...Elliptical is so much more desirable. I am going to try to stay indoors the next couple of days.

I am sitting here with the remainder of my beef, about 1.5 lbs and am going to chow down.

 

[Cardinal]

Workouts are looking solid bro, keep it up. Good luck with the cycle as well.

Thanks for checking in bud. I am really hoping for a good bit from tren in the way of fat loss. If it works like I hope, I will have found a damn nice thermogenic.

I have been keeping up with your journal also. Looks like you are at a very good all around weight. Congrats on a successful cut. Good luck with the power, rep range, shock!

 

[Cardinal]

Wednesday, May 18, 2005

HS High Row 160x2x10, 220x10, 240x5
DB Bent Rows 110x5, 90x2x8
Curls 60x6, 55x6, 50x6, 45x6, 40x6, 35x6, 30x6
Lat Pulldowns 200x7
COC Gripper Tx10, Tx12, Tx17, #1x2x5

May 23, 2005

Bodyweight 243

Workout

18 work sets

HS High Row 240x9, 250x6, 250x5
Curls 60x7, 55x6, 50x6, 45x6, 40x2x6, 40x9
Lat Pulldowns 200x5
HS Low Row 180x10, 200x9, 220x8
Reverse EZ Bar Curls 90x2x10
Reverse Wrist Curls 30x5, 30x4

Workout Notes

It's on! It's definitely on!

Exactly like I had hoped, after one full exercise split and 5-7 days I notice obvious strength gains. Were it not for the slight pain in my quad this morning after inject, I couldn't tell the difference between the CNS stimulation provided by 75+mg Tren EOD and a high dose SuperDrol/M5AA (30-40mg/60+mg ED for example) combo. The aggression was there. Speed strength. Joints felt good. Slight muscle cramping in chest as usual. I could have easily trained another hour. Biceps took a beating today. Will feel it tomorrow.

Recovery seems good. Muscles are fairly full. I did this workout after about 3000kcals yesterday and 6.5 hours of moderate lawn care. Insomnia is still going but pretty darn managable. I probably feel some aggression outside the gym, but business is pretty stressful now, so it is tough to say if it is worse than usual. Probably is though.

Only time will tell how Tren fairs compared to the other PH/PS I have used to build strength in the past. All I can say right now is that I am motivated as all hell.

 

[Cardinal]

May 24, 2005

Workout

Lawn Care 8.5 hours

Definitely didn't intend to put in this much time out on the lawns but I needed to, and it should be quite good for fatloss. Will be back in the gym tomorrow.

AAS Notes

Last night I felt an incredible amount of aggression. Quite a few thoughts filled with violence/hatred. Had insomnia for about 4 hours. Not very typical for me. I believe it is a combo of the tren and a somewhat stressful business week/month. I felt a lot better later today. Took 25 mg ephedrine to help out with energy throughout the day.

 

[Cardinal]

May 25, 2005

Bodyweight: 239

Workout

22 Work Sets

CGBP 195x5, 205x2x5
HS Incline 60,80,100x6, 110x4
HS Decline 60x8, 80x9, 70x12
Calf Raises 310x10, 330x10, 350x10, +2 sets
Lateral Raises 30x12
Tate Presses 35x8, 45x8
Flies 45x10
HS Shoulder Press 85x8, 105x8, 120x6

Cardio

Lawn Care 3 hours

Notes

Water retention is really low after all the physical labor. Strength was up just a bit, but nothing spectacular. I could feel the CNS stimulation, but very little aggression this time. I may go back to 36 hour dosings of Tren. Will decide that within the week. I have lost a small amount around the waistline, but nothing to write home about yet.

Diet Notes

Was doing well with the diet, but decided to go out for catfish last night. My appetite was suppressed to the point that I could only eat about half what I usually did. Consequently I did little damage. Liking the Tren more every day.

 

[Cardinal]

May 26, 2005

Bodyweight: 240

Workout

Conventional Deads 225x5, 305x5, 300x5, 305x5
Squats 135x10, 155x7, 155x6, 175x5
Leg Extensions 3 sets

Cardio

Lawn Care 3 hours

Workout Notes

I am a bit stronger. 300x5 was cake, 305 felt pretty heavy. Squats felt fantastic with such light weight. I think I'll work up in reps and keep the weight down on those. Lower back was a little tight. I think I'll take 6-7 days off b/f my next deadlifting session to recuperate.

Diet Notes

Still noticing good appetite suppression. I think I am going to cut calories a little more so long as my binging tendency doesn't come back.

AAS Notes

Hair loss seems to have vanished. Only thing I did was drop out the prop. Problem seems to be solved! I'll reintroduce very small amounts of Prop as I see fit throughout the cycle, but am going to keep a close eye on it.

I am also going to start dosing the Tren more consistently at about 75mg every 36 hours. Realistically, I am shooting for anywhere between 300-350 mg Tren each week. I think without Test in there, that may be a more effective dose. Also, I have the suspicion that most of the fat burning I have done so far has come from mild calorie restriction and a lot of lawn service work.

 

[Cardinal]

Friday, May 27, 2005

Cardio

Lawn Care 5 hours, moderate activity level

AAS Notes

Hair loss is pretty much not happening. Definitely a good thing. I do however still have pain and a little puffiness in nipple area, but no small pea sized lumps. Have been taking nolva since the inception of the pain. Hopefully it is not from the Tren, but it looks like it could be. Otherwise, noticing very good muscle hardness, much better than expected.

 

[Cardinal]

May 28, 2005

Bodyweight: 248

Workout

11 Work Sets

HS High Row 200x10, 250x7, 260x6
Curls 60x7, 55x2x6
Chinups 248x3
HS Low Row 220x8, 260x8
EZ Reverse Curls 90x10, 90x6
Lat Pulldown 180x8

Notes

Strength is up. Once again, just a little bit. Nothing too spectacular, though I am now in PR territory on most of this pulling work.

Appetite is also up somewhat. That is probably what is responsible for the small 8 lb jump in bodyweight I made overnight. Will have to take some measurements.

 

[Cardinal]

Definitely some significant strength gains over a four day period.

May 25, 2005

22 Work Sets

CGBP 195x5, 205x2x5
HS Incline 60,80,100x6, 110x4
HS Decline 60x8, 80x9, 70x12
Calf Raises 310x10, 330x10, 350x10, +2 sets
Lateral Raises 30x12
Tate Presses 35x8, 45x8
Flies 45x10
HS Shoulder Press 85x8, 105x8, 120x6

May 29, 2005

CGBP 185x10, 205x6, 215x5
HS Incline 80,100x6, 115x6, 120x5
Lateral Raises 35x9
Tate Presses 45x8, 50x6
Pushdowns 45x6
HS Shoulder Press 150x5, whole stack
Pec Dec 2 sets

Notes

These are the sort of strength gains that I like. They come on so very fast. I am hoping that by going 6-8 weeks on tren I can keep a bit more of it than usual. I find it far easier to add weight than reps. Even now trying to get extra reps on some stuff is like pulling teeth. Definitely stronger on Tate presses than I have ever been.

Joints actually feel really good with all of the CNS stimulation. No noticeable bloat. Good muscle hardness and vascularity. Recovery is quite good. Laying off the lawn care work has been a big help these last couple of days.

Appetite is unfortunately coming back with a vengeance.

 

[Tha Don]

hey cardinal, sounds like the cycle is goin good so far, best of luck bro, i'll be following along

why all the gyno precautions? i take it you are gyno prone? what happened on your test E cycle? i might go and have a read through your first cycle journal, as i'm on something similar right now

 

[Cardinal]

Well, the Vitex and B6 don't really seem to be doing anything. I am having gyno symptoms now and they just aren't effective. I am on Tren only at the moment due to hairloss from Prop. I started dosing Arimidex today (have been hitting up Nolva for awhile), and hope that helps. Next step will be to go back on bromo. I am not as sure how to deal with progesterone gyno. I am leaning toward just preventing it with Arimidex in the future.

I had a certain amount of gyno before I ever started AAS or PH/PS. My first Test E cycle I found out just how quick it can hit. Developed a lump seemingly overnight. Nolva knocked it the heck out quick though. It seems like I ALWAYS have puffiness, on cycle or off. Kind of annoying. The only changes that happen while on are pain, lumps and discharge. Hence all the precautions.

You are welcome to read through any journals you want if they are of help to you. They are all in the cycle info section at anabolicminds forums, including three prohormone cycles.

What is interesting about Tren so far is that I seem to be getting very few sides other than the gyno problem. I expected to have more trouble than this. If steroids didn't shut me down at all, I'd probably like to stay on this stuff indefinitely, haha.

 

[Cardinal]

May 30, 2005

Bodyweight 243

Workout

Calf Work 5 sets
Leg Extensions 4 sets

Cardio

Elliptical 26:00, 75-85 rpm, 400+ kcals, <165 heartrate

My endurance was way up for some reason. Heartbeat was down by about 10-15 beats per minute. I had no problems running the elliptical over 100 rpm if needed. All the buttons started beeping red on me. Never had that happen before.

 

[GFR]

I have only used tren once; is it really that bad for hair loss?

 

[Cardinal]

ForemanRules

For me, not at all. I am noticing virtually no hair loss from Tren Acetate at a dose of about 300-350mg each week. Test E, Test Prop etc. is a whole other ballgame. Major hair loss/shedding even at fairly low doses. I am now going to do a little experimenting with the Prop to see what dose I can handle without going bald. I suspect I will only be able to take 100-200 mg each week.

 

[Cardinal]

May 31, 2005

Workout

Conventional Deadlifts 275x5, 315x5, 335x3, 325x5
Low Row 200x9, 260x9
Timed Holds 405x2 sets
Shrugs 110x12

Cardio

Elliptical 20:00, 75rpm

Notes

Strength is up on the deadlifts. Lats and Bis weren't quite recovered from Sunday's session, so I chose to hold off and make it a light day.

 

[Cardinal]

June 2, 2005

Bodyweight 244

Workout

CGBP 220x5, 205x6
HS Incline 120x5, 110x7
HS Decline 80x7, 70x9
Tates 35x13, 40x11, 40x11
HS Shoulder Press 130x7
DB OH Press 60x9

Cardio

Elliptical 20:00, 80+ rpm

Notes

Endurance is still nice and high. Still sweating a lot in the gym as usual. No noticable night sweats yet however. Seems like most folks get them on Trenbolone. Not me so far. Blood pressure feels pretty high, but not as high as it felt on a major bulk.

I'll give an update at the end of one month on Tren regarding bodycomp changes. So far they have been modest. A bit more muscle (not a lot), a bit less fat.

 

[Cardinal]

June 3, 2005

Bodyweight: 244

Workout

HS High Row 260x6
Chins 244x2x5
Curls 65x4, 60x6, 55x6, 50x6, 45x9, 40x10
HS Low Row 260x9, 280x5, 300x5
Wrist Curls 30x2x5, 50x12

Cardio

Elliptical 20:00, 82 rpm

Notes

I think I may make a few minor adjustments to my workout. Just to switch things up a bit. I am definitely going to focus on being able to do more chinups. Next workout will be a squat/leg day. Need a day off from deadlifting. I think I may follow the P/RR/S basic template for awhile starting with rep range week.

 

[Stu]

Are you getting any sides with the bromo? it makes most people feel shit. Dostinex is supposed to be alot better