When I Lose Control......I Like It! Prop/Tren

[Cardinal]

Stu,

I am not taking any bromo right now. But I do get side effects from it as I have used it in the past. Mood is very bad, slight nausea when eating (a good thing = appetite suppression), definite hypoglycemic episodes.

I tried Vitex and it seems ineffectual. Dostinex will probably be the next thing I try, esp. if I end up running deca or tren again soon. For now I will probably go back on bromo if my condition worsens. I don't like the way it makes me feel.

 

[Cardinal]

June 4, 2005

Elliptical 60:00, 65 rpm

Can't say I didn't do my cardio on this cycle! This was really easy for me, but it got to my knees pretty bad once I hit an hour on the elliptical.

 

[Cardinal]

June 5, 2005

Leg Day

Squats 135x8, 155x8, 175x8, 195x7, 175x8
Leg Extensions 60,70,80x20, 90x15

Cardio

Elliptical 35:00, 525 kcals, 75 rpm

Notes

Yes my top set of 195x7 on squats does represent a significant strength gain =D I am quite weak overall.

 

[Cardinal]

June 6, 2005

Bodyweight: 243.5

Cardio

Elliptical 65:00, 68rpm, 1000kcals

Workout

Incline DB Press 50x8, 70x8, 80x7, 80x6, 70x8
JM Press 135x2x8
HS Incline 80x8
Pushdowns 30x10
Tates 40x11, 40x11
Flies 45x10

Did my workout after cardio. Strength was down a bit as a result. I did switch up the movements I normally train and tried to keep the rep range higher.

 

[Cardinal]

June 7, 2005

Bodyweight: 245

Cardio

Elliptical 65:00, 1000+ kcals

 

[Cardinal]

June 8, 2005

Bodyweight: 248

I injected some prop over my last five shots and I think this is what is responsible for the weight jump. I am not complaining. Definitely not gaining fat.

Workout

HS High Row 200x6, 240x6, 260x5, 280x4
Neutral Chins 248x4
Curls 60x7, 60x6, 50x10
HS Low Row 260x9, 300x6
Wrist Curls 30x2x7

Cardio

Elliptical 60:00, 70 rpm

My right knee is giving me some hell. I may have to start incline walking for awhile and do less elliptical work.

Notes

I am definitely still gaining strength, although at a much slower rate than I was initially. I came pretty close to getting another rep on curls, which is tough for me. I feel close to my natural limit on that lift. 280 felt heavy on the high rows and I lacked some rom. Chinups were hurting my elbow joint again, so I backed off after one set. I still need to do Hammer Strength stuff to feel really good. Training more like EOD still seems best for me, whether I am on or not.

 

[Cardinal]

June 10, 2005

Bodyweight: 248

Workout

Conventional Deadlifts 225x5 275x5, 335x2x5, 315x7
Leg Extensions 60,80,90x15, 100x15, 110x10
Calf Raises 330x20

Cardio

Elliptical 60:00, 900 kcals

Notes

My form broke down quite a bit on the second set of deads with 335. Still getting stronger though, so I am happy. Cardio has felt quite good except for having knee problems. I got a x-large knee brace and am going to try it starting tomorrow. Overall, I am having almost no arrhythmic heart beats now and I think the cardio has been helping out somewhat.

 

[Cardinal]

June 11, 2005

Bodyweight: 247

Workout

CGBP 225x5
HS Incline 250x5, 200x8, 180x8
JM Press 135x9, 135x2x10
Laterals 30x13
Tates 35x14, 35x12, 35x11

Cardio

Elliptical 45:00

Notes

I am up a clear 5 lbs on all my pushing work. Strength is increasing at a rate about half as fast as during week 1-2. That is still plenty for me.

I am definitely noticing more night sweats. I woke up this afternoon after a nap with quite a bit of wetness around my neck. For better or worse I think I'll keep the dose a bit higher injecting 75mg tren every 24-36 hours for awhile to see if I notice more thermogenic benefits. I must watch it though, as I may run out too fast that way. I'd like to make it a full 8 weeks if possible. I'll have to use a bit of prop to make it that long and I am definitely still losing a lot of hair when I include the prop.

 

[Cardinal]

June 12, 2005

Cardio

Walking/Hiking 135 minutes, moderate pace

Notes

Well, after taking stock of how much Tren I actually have, versus how much I would like to have, I seem to have come up a bit short (part of my shit is mixed with prop unfortunately). So I have decided to add 30mg of Superdrol per day for the remainder of my cycle and keep the dose of Tren fairly low (a bit more than 75mg eod). I seem to handle both compounds fairly well, so I don't foresee a big problem here. No doubt I will get a strength boost from the SD.

The prop I have injected over the last few days sure has made me look a lot fuller and better overall. I really need to work on a way to limit hair loss. If I could that, I think I would be set with prop.

 

[Cardinal]

June 13, 2005

Bodyweight: 247

Workout

HS High Row 260x6, 280x4
Chins 247x2x5, 247x4
Pulldowns 180x8, 120x15
Curls 60x7, 60x6, 60x7
Shrugs 185x20

Cardio

Elliptical 60:00 850 kcals

Notes

I woke up with a good deal more muscle hardness. Arms measured about an 1/8th inch bigger and the skin was a lot tighter. SD sure is a nice compound for how quickly it starts to work and how good of a cell-volumizer it is.

 

[Pirate!]

Damn, that is a lot of cardio! Since there hasn't been much net change in weight, how much fat do you think you have lost so far? Seems like 1/2 lb/day would be reasonable--given the drugs and exercise routine you are doing. I'm surprised you aren't using T3. I guess you sweat enough as is. Your planned pct nolva dose seems low to me. Are you taking into consideration that 30.4 mg tamoxifen citrate = 20 mg tamoxifen? Anyway, I'm learning from your experience, so thank you, and keep up the good work.

 

[Purdue Power]

I just jumped on board, too. I just learned quite a few things for my brief prop/tren cutting cycle that will start in about 3 weeks or so. I appreciate all of the detail that you are putting into this.

 

[Cardinal]

PirateFromHell: Thanks for the comments! I can offer a little explanation for my current reason for doing so much cardiovascular work (it probably has limited some potential muscle gains). It seems any time I try to lower calories even moderately, I regain my binging tendency, particularly the thought patterns. I would like to get down to a reasonable bodyfat level therefore without significant calorie restriction. So for this cycle, I chose the minimum calorie level that seems to make me feel mentally normal (food doesn't control all my thoughts and actions) and am eating around 4000-4500 kcals/day or so on a cut.

I don't trust Tren to be all that thermogenic by itself. Therefore I turned to doing a lot of cardio work to create enough of a caloric deficit to lose bodyfat. So far I cannot see that it has harmed my strength gains which is a major goal for me. I have patellar chondromalacia and even elliptical has been bothering it. But I am choosing the lowest impact cardio I can and am working around that one.

The only reason I am not using T3 is b/c I am afraid it may aggravate my various heart arrhythmias. I got my most recent one around Christmas and there is a minute but measurable chance that T3 was part of the cause. I now think though that excessive caloric intake and protein intake was by far the bigger culprit.

For bodyfat loss in the future, I will certainly look into T3 as well as GH when I am significantly older and could benefit from it. But I am coming to realize how good I feel doing a lot of cardiovascular conditioning. I think it will help my health in numerous ways over the years. Mainly, I just need to find good non-impact ways of training my heart. Generally, it will probably be good for me to avoid stims. I feel better off of them than on.

In terms of how much fat I have lost so far. I do notice looking better in the mirror. Conservatively I have dropped about 3/4 of an inch off my waist (down to 40.5" now). I should note however, that I strongly believe most all of it was from the cardio and little of it was from the thermogenic benefits of trenbolone. Tren sure is an excellent steroid overall though, by far my favorite to date.

 

[Cardinal]

I just jumped on board, too. I just learned quite a few things for my brief prop/tren cutting cycle that will start in about 3 weeks or so. I appreciate all of the detail that you are putting into this.

Good luck on your coming cycle. Did I read you were prepping for a competition soon? If so, kick some ass! I am glad we can mutually benefit from the exchange of ideas through these journals. I certainly enjoyed reading your experiences on your first AAS run.

 

[Pirate!]

Some non-stimulatory appetite suppresants like Hoodia might help you control the diet a little better. I think the diet is the key to seeing the results you want on this cycle. I don't like stims, myself, but I find that ephedrine with no caffiene is much more pleasant and helps a lot with appetite. It will be interesting to see how the superdrol works in this stack. Great journal, man!

 

[redspy]

Bump on the Hoodia. I take 800mg and it wipes out cravings for about 6 hours. Your body adapts to it so it should be cycled.

 

[Cardinal]

Pirate and Redspy:

Thank you both for the recommendations. I actually have some hoodia. I think I'll give it a go for now. And you are absolutely right. The lower I can get those calories, the more fat I lose. I lose fat really well on anything at or under 2500 kcals. Where I have chosen to draw the line however, is when I feel like my body is deprived and I start getting the BED thoughts again. Anyhow, I think I'll go take some of the hoodia. Will report back in a day or several about how it works. I am already getting good appetite suppression from the Tren, so this could be nice. If not, I can always add nicotine gum/patch for awhile.

 

[Cardinal]

June 14, 2005

Bodyweight: 246

Cardio

Elliptical 63:00, 900 kcals

Notes

I am running a short trial with hoodia to see what sort of an effect it has on my appetite. Given its somewhat foul taste, methinks it may prove a decent suppressant.

 

[Pirate!]

Cap the Hoodia. I don't even want to know what an extract from a dried catus taste like.
Are you taking some form of ALA?

 

[Cardinal]

Thats a good idea. It tastes just like you might imagine it tasting. Somewhat like straight cayenne pepper, but not hot and definitely a lot more pungent. I think I'll try capping it. Need some practice capping stuff anyhow. I am taking milk thistle as my liver protectant. May pick up some NAC as well. I have never used ALA or R-ALA. I need to research its effects on insulin to make sure it wouldn't effect my heart arrhythmias.

 

[Cardinal]

Alrightly, I am well over 100 bucks the poorer now. Got 1000 caps and a couple of bottles of SD. I think I may lower my dose of SD just to save money. 20mg may be more than enough.

 

[Pirate!]

I'm very interested to see how well prop/tren/superdrol is together. Are you still using the prop? I hope your connective tissue holds up on this stack.

 

[Cardinal]

Pirate: Right now, yes I am still using the prop. I had intially completely let it clear my system after about the middle of the 2nd week to make sure that in fact the Tren wasn't causing hair loss and the Prop was causing it all (which was correct). I have a bottle of Tren Prop and a bottle of Tren. Was running kind of short on the plain Tren so I added back prop. I am still losing hair substantially, but am using my old trick of just not combing it much and that seems to be helping a lot.

I am also concerned about the connective tissue. For the most part I am going to be training higher rep ranges on exercises that are more joint protective. Hopefully that be enough for this cycle. There are a lot of factors to joint health and one of them definitely involves not doing stupid shit in the weight room, hehe.

I am actually even more concerned about the high blood pressure issue (tren is known to shoot it through the roof) when SD and Tren are stacked. I'll see about getting a measurement. I have some valsartan coming from some other country that should arrive within 10-15 days or so hopefully.

 

[Cardinal]

June 15, 2005

Bodyweight: 245

Workout

Squats 135x8, 155x8, 175x7, 205x7, 225x4
Leg Extensions 6 sets

Cardio

Elliptical 63:00, 900 kcals

Notes

Am waiting on the caps to see about continuing the hoodia. So far I noticed no effect from about 1g/dose I took each day.

 

[Cardinal]

June 17, 2005

Bodyweight: 246
Blood Pressure: 141/73

Workout

CGBP 230x5, 185x9, 185x8
DB OH Press 70x8, 80x4
Smith BB OH Press 175x8
Laterals 30x13, 40x5
Tates/DB Bench 45x8, 50x8, 55x7, 60x6
Side Bends 90x20

Cardio

Elliptical 60:00, 900 kcals

Notes

I was at Sam's and decided to have my blood pressure check. As usual the cuff was too small, but it gave a consistent reading as far as I could tell. It was a bit lower than I expected, but still too high for my liking. I have some valsartan coming and I will hopefully be able to start it during my cycle so I can check what sort of an effect an ARB has.

As usual, I was predictably stronger. Felt like I had all sorts of energy and could lift for hours (with all the BSing I did in the gym today that is about how long it took). I think the SD has kicked in. Its about the right time at day five.

Regarding the dose of AAS I am using, I will make a report at the end as I have tended to vary it a fair amount. I don't seem to be losing a lot of hair at the moment, so I am stilling going with a lot of prop.

For better or worse, I am doing my best to eat a bit less, hoping to accelerate fatloss somewhat.

Missed writing in cardio yesterday. Did it an hour as usual.

 

[Cardinal]

June 18, 2005

Bodyweight: 244

Cardio

Elliptical 90:00, 1310 kcals
Lawn Care 75 minutes moderate activity

 

[Cardinal]

June 19, 2005

Bodyweight: 245

Workout

Conventional Deads 345x5, 315x7
Chins 245x2x5
HS High Rows 200x10, 180x12
HS Low Rows 200x12, 200x12
Curls 60x8, 65x4

Cardio

Elliptical 60:00, 800+ kcals

Notes

I got a 10 lb PR on the deadlifts but my form was not good and I was rounding my back too much. Just felts plain too heavy. Next go round I will either just stick with the same weight or maybe work a few singles. My legs shake a heck of a lot on the way up. That is not a problem on reps 2-5. Whole workout sort of felt a bit too heavy. I did finally get another rep on curls though.

 

[Pirate!]

You must have made significant LBM gains to have not lost much weight. Are you still taking waist measurements? Of course those will be higher than the true value due to bloat.

 

[Cardinal]

Pirate: I am certainly hoping I have made significant LBM gains, but I am not betting on it. SD is a heck of a cell-volumizer, and Test always keeps me pretty full. Other than my bodyweight staying high, I am not getting other indications that I am building muscle. I'll pretty much have to wait until everything clears my system and PCT is over to make a determination on that. Building muscle is a pretty much a distant third on my list of goals after Strength and Fat loss.

I'll see if I can get a decent waist measurement tomorrow morning. I stuffed up pretty good tonight and skipped cardio today, so if the tape measure reads less, I can certainly be content that I am making progress.

I can see why people always say to run a cycle like this plenty long and not stop after only 3-4 weeks. Just more time to get good results out of it.

On a side note, I am quite interested in what you are running now as joint protection. I may consider a very similar cycle sometime within the next year or two.

 

[Cardinal]

June 21, 2005

Bodyweight: 243.5

Workout

Incline Bench 135x7, 155x7, 175x7, 195x2x7
DB OH Press 60x2x8, 60x9
Pushdowns 30x10, 30x12, 40x10
Flies 40x15, 40x10

Cardio

Elliptical 60:00, 850 kcals

Notes

Took the day off from cardio yesterday. It felt good to be off and it felt even better to get back to it today. I went with a light workout switching the exercises I normally do substantially. My joints have been giving me a little trouble. I think partly it is due to the lowered cho and calories of late.

Fat Loss So Far

I took a waist measurement this morning before breakfast. At about 243.5 lbs, my waist is down to just over 40". So I have lost at least an inch thus far with no noticeable muscle loss at all. Arms are measuring the same size as when I started. What additional fat I lose on this cycle is gravy and will help me move toward my longer term goal of getting a 38" gut. Regardless of whether or not I have built new lbm, I am quite pleased thus far with the recomp effect of what I am taking. I have to say though, I expected this from something like Prop/Tren.