Which will help for speed training more?

[eaglesfan!]

Plyometrics, or weight training? In your opinion what do you think will help the most for speed training?

Plyo's workout:
Lunge Jumps 3x15
Box Jumps 3x15
Squat jumps 3x15
Jump rope 3 sets of 3 minutes

or

Strength Workout
squats- 3x8
bench press- 3x12
lunges- 3x15
dead lift- 3x8
hangclean- 3x 6-8

 

[eaglesfan!]

so basically Im asking what would be more helpful.

 

[gtbmed]

Both will help.

Your rep ranges are too high for both. I would keep bench, squats, and deadlifts to below 5 reps and keep cleans to 3 reps or less.

For jumps, do rep ranges from 1-3. Doing 15 jumps per set isn't going to help to develop the qualities you want.

 

[Gazhole]

The type of exercise isn't important, its how you configure your chosen type of exercise that matters. If you're not programming your training to focus on speed you won't get anywhere.

Like gtbmed said, keep your reps low. Very low. I would say sets of 3 is probably the maximum. That said, just because the reps are low you're going to need to keep the weights pretty low aswell: 50-60% of your 1RM. For plyometrics start with your bodyweight, and a weighted vest can be added later.

Keep the eccentric portion of the reps basically the same, but on the concentric try to produce as much force as quickely as possible. In plyometrics this generally involves propelling your body into the air, whereas with weights this means moving the weight through the full ROM as explosively and rapidly as possible.

Keep good form. Speed is supposed to happen as well as good technique, not instead of it.

 

[gtbmed]

The type of exercise isn't important, its how you configure your chosen type of exercise that matters. If you're not programming your training to focus on speed you won't get anywhere.

Like gtbmed said, keep your reps low. Very low. I would say sets of 3 is probably the maximum. That said, just because the reps are low you're going to need to keep the weights pretty low aswell: 50-60% of your 1RM. For plyometrics start with your bodyweight, and a weighted vest can be added later.

Keep the eccentric portion of the reps basically the same, but on the concentric try to produce as much force as quickely as possible. In plyometrics this generally involves propelling your body into the air, whereas with weights this means moving the weight through the full ROM as explosively and rapidly as possible.

Keep good form. Speed is supposed to happen as well as good technique, not instead of it.

There are ways to scale intensity for these exercises IMO.

For instance - let's say a 45" jump is your best box jump. Then use a 40" box for 90%, etc.

eagles, my recommendation is to do both vertical and horizontal jumping. Include broad jumps and box jumps or depth jumps. But don't overdo it - you don't need to do that many per week. I added height to my vertical just by doing 8 sets of 3 jumps twice per week - one day they were box jumps and one day they were standing broad jumps.

 

[eaglesfan!]

ok thanks!

 

[Ogedi]

both, and sprint as much as you can
simply sprinting has helped me so much
also sled work u can make one with a wheel barrel shell

 

[Gazhole]

There are ways to scale intensity for these exercises IMO.

For instance - let's say a 45" jump is your best box jump. Then use a 40" box for 90%, etc.

eagles, my recommendation is to do both vertical and horizontal jumping. Include broad jumps and box jumps or depth jumps. But don't overdo it - you don't need to do that many per week. I added height to my vertical just by doing 8 sets of 3 jumps twice per week - one day they were box jumps and one day they were standing broad jumps.

Absolutely. Another way i've done this is using different height boxes for box squats, done with explosive concentrics. Can do the same with speed deadlifts/highpulls if you use different height platforms too, and with bench if you have the luxury of different thickness boards for board pressing.

Theres so much you can do with ROM training, the percentages of 1RM hardly have to be changed at all if you dont want to!

 

[stepaukas]

eaglesfan

not knowing your background and speed for what distance... are you looking to improve 10 yd dash times? 40 yd dash time? mile? half marathon? its hard to give advice.
i could be wrong, but by your post, i'm guessing you are looking to improve 10 and 40yd dash times for football??
more of a sports specific question. maybe ask your coach who should be familiar with football training..

 

[eaglesfan!]

yea more the 40 yard dash then the ten, but get faster in general

 

[MMAWannabe]

#1 thing to do, work on your form and then work on it some more. The fastest peolple work on the form all the time. Perfect everything in each phase of the run. Increase your stride length without losing stride frequency. Speed and power will increase from drills that perfect form. Many of the drills involve plyometrics. ---speed training is one of my specialties.

As far as the lifting goes you have had some great advice so far. Do both, and decrease reps.

 

[gtbmed]

Yeah technique work is kind of the over-arching part of this. Running hills and actually sprinting is going to help you provided you do it correctly. Work on various aspects of your technique and above all, sprint.

Keep in mind when you're planning all of this that you need to be careful not to overdo things. For a few months I did 2-3 days of weightlifting and 2 days of sprinting/jumping and I found it to be effective.

Also, when you do sprints, take as much rest as you need. It is not about conditioning or fatiguing your body - it's about perfecting your technique and translating your physical skills into an athletic result. Fatigue should rarely play a role in your sprinting workouts.

 

[eaglesfan!]

thanks for the information

 

[MMAWannabe]

Don't just sprint to work on form. Do drills and more drills. Sprinting properly is a complex actions drill isolate part of the motion so you can perfect it. It's easier to work on perfecting the parts, then put them together than it is to work on everything at once. Examples of drills you may find on youtube a-skip, b-skip, high knees (for sprinters), leg cycle, heel smash, falling starts......etc. For any drill, over exaggerate and do them with power and speed, but work on correct form. Going half-ass is a waste of time. You need to train you body to complete the motions correctly at top speed.

 

[gtbmed]

Meh.

I know there are ways to break down a movement into parts and work on them - that's fine to do if you do it at a low enough volume/intensity that it doesn't interfere with the rest of your training. But I'd rather devote a good amount of recovery to working the full movement since that is what's most important.

I'm a huge believer in the SAID principle. You can break down complex movements into their parts and perfect each part, but when you put it together things still break down.

 

[eaglesfan!]

should i do box jumps, lunge jumps and planks for a simple speed workout?

 

[MMAWannabe]

Meh.

I know there are ways to break down a movement into parts and work on them - that's fine to do if you do it at a low enough volume/intensity that it doesn't interfere with the rest of your training. But I'd rather devote a good amount of recovery to working the full movement since that is what's most important.

I'm a huge believer in the SAID principle. You can break down complex movements into their parts and perfect each part, but when you put it together things still break down.

What I described is, in part, how Olympic and college sprinters train. I have a little more than just second hand knowledge if you catch my drift. It is also how many of pros in the nfl train. As far as a low volume/intensity, I'm not saying go out and do 1000 a-skips. You don't do drills all day, but you do them everyday. Also if you are doing this at a low intensity, you are wasting your time. Also, with the drills they go from simple to complex. From one movement to a multiple movements in the drill. If it didn't work, you wouldn't see everyone doing it.

 

[gtbmed]

What I described is, in part, how Olympic and college sprinters train. I have a little more than just second hand knowledge if you catch my drift. It is also how many of pros in the nfl train. As far as a low volume/intensity, I'm not saying go out and do 1000 a-skips. You don't do drills all day, but you do them everyday. Also if you are doing this at a low intensity, you are wasting your time. Also, with the drills they go from simple to complex. From one movement to a multiple movements in the drill. If it didn't work, you wouldn't see everyone doing it.

No, I think what you describe is a perfectly valid way to train.

I liken it to the training of Olympic weightlifters, since those movements are complex and total-body, much like a sprint and they also require high amounts of both limit strength and power.

There are some Oly lifters who break the lifts down, work on specific parts of the lift, do partial movements, and limit the amount of full movements they do. These lifters have been very successful.

There are others who do nothing but squatting and the competition lifts. They are also very successful.

All I'm trying to say here is that there's multiple ways to get good at something. I think technique perfection can be done without a large amount of strict technique drills.

As for the volume/intensity thing: I don't advocate doing any power type movement at a low intensity because it doesn't seem to translate when you do the same movement at a high intensity. I guess what I wanted to say was that the combination of volume and intensity should be reasonable enough that it allows you to focus on your main goal: sprinting. Like you said, everything has to be fit into your training and if it wasn't working, people wouldn't be using these drills.

I'm curious though - what do you think is the total amount of technique drills compared to full sprinting for most college athletes? I'd be interested to see that breakdown.

 

[MMAWannabe]

I'm curious though - what do you think is the total amount of technique drills compared to full sprinting for most college athletes? I'd be interested to see that breakdown.

I've seen quite a bit of variety on the split and volume overall. One of the more successful programs I've been around does them every day after warm-up and dynamic stretches. Some days they drills are the entire workout and some days they sprint after. It also depends on where you are at in the season and the experience and ability of the athletes.