Winter/Spring Bulker

[cottonmouth]

Hows it going guys. Im just looking for some input on running a 20+ week cycle using EQ. Ive heard some great things about running EQ for long periods of time.

Im 5'10, 225-228 most days. Oly squat 475 for triples, can do sets of ten with 385, 395 if im feeling good.., Ive done 600 in a pair of metal briefs the first time i put them on.. I don't wide grip bench bit i do close grip regularly, 315-335 is my rep range for that now. conventional dead is 455 for reps and sumo is 495 for reps. I really try and target the muscle, Squatting is ass to grass, with a belt and some light knee wraps.
----------------------------

Now my main concern about the cycle is the strength of EQ as a mass builder. I believe all the bad rep I've been reading is simple because it hasn't been run for the proper amount of time. I don't want to waist my time with this cycle, I have plans and this cycle cant be a waste.

This will be my first time running slin as well. I plan on starting at 2iu pwo, increasing by 1iu every wo till I hit 6iu then running that for a while (maybe 2 weeks of the first mesocycle of slin) then increasing to 8iu at most.

Now all of the dosages are not set in stone especially for the EQ. But I've read 800mg/wk and up is where you really start to notice it. and 750mg/wk test is a decent dose for me.

As you can see I plan on bumping the dosages up to keep from stalling gains. Ive chosen to do more frequent but smaller increases because I tend to get sides from peaking blood levels.

Now the only compounds I'm not completely sure on is the M1T. As far as orals go I've run tbol, dbol, and var. Which i have all of on hand, including mestanolone. I have a bunch of tbol though.

But i might decide the run the m1t as the finishing oral to keep estrogen down and run dbol/drol for the first/second slin mesocycle while the other compounds are lower.
I'm very open to suggestions on different orals. Especially at the end with tbol and var at the same time, its just that i have both on had so take that as an either or with those. Just so i don't get blasted for saying im going to run 110mg/day of orals.

Along with proper ai's,,, Letro at .125mg/day.. nolva at 10mg/day if i need anything more.


You may notice the -3,-2-1. Im doing that because i wouldn't really consider that the start of the cycle due to EQ's long ass kick in time. I will be running my cruise dose with those doses along with cruising at the end of the cycle.

My goals for this are 15 solid pounds. I believe 20 wouldn't be to out of the question with the addition of slin. But 20 sounds retarded writing it down even though that's still less than a pound a week.

Im just looking for someone who has run EQ for long periods of time, what doses, about how long it took to kick in, how successful it was, how much you believe it converted to estrogen. At 1g+/wk I believe this might start to cause some concern.
Thanks guys.

 

[newguy35]

I like it, you sound like you might be more advanced than me, so I'll just bounce my first few thoughts out there and see what you think.

Why not stagger the slin and orals, 4 weeks on one, then 4 on the the other to keep things rolling.

You've got a bunch of tbol, run that instead of the m1t is my vote. You're already trying something new with the big eq dose and slin, don't try too many new things at once.

I like the long cycle length a lot and progressive dosing, but I dunno about progressively dosing both the test and EQ. I'd vote run the eq at 600 for 8-10 weeks and then maybe one bump to 800 and leave it there. How high have you run EQ before is a pretty important question? If you start getting some nasty EQ sides at 1-1.2 gm its gonna take forever to get it clear and you may be stuck with some bad sides for a while.

Is that slin preworkout or post? I've done both and can def prefer pre. With a carb/protien drink of course.

Those goals in gains seem pretty lofty, but best of luck to you! Let us know how it goes

 

[cottonmouth]

I like it, you sound like you might be more advanced than me, so I'll just bounce my first few thoughts out there and see what you think.

Why not stagger the slin and orals, 4 weeks on one, then 4 on the the other to keep things rolling.

You've got a bunch of tbol, run that instead of the m1t is my vote. You're already trying something new with the big eq dose and slin, don't try too many new things at once.

I like the long cycle length a lot and progressive dosing, but I dunno about progressively dosing both the test and EQ. I'd vote run the eq at 600 for 8-10 weeks and then maybe one bump to 800 and leave it there. How high have you run EQ before is a pretty important question? If you start getting some nasty EQ sides at 1-1.2 gm its gonna take forever to get it clear and you may be stuck with some bad sides for a while.

Is that slin preworkout or post? I've done both and can def prefer pre. With a carb/protien drink of course.

Those goals in gains seem pretty lofty, but best of luck to you! Let us know how it goes

Slin would be post workout. I'm just going with the safest approach to it being my first time.

I was figuring on running tbol at some point. so say im running 3 orals spread out, one would be tbol, another M1T, and another either dbol or drol. Most likely dbol. in no specific order. But i was thinking m1t just because Ive heard its pretty awesome, strength, mass, no water retention.

My point for the high dose of EQ is from about everyone and every place I've read 800mg/wk is a good place to "start" or notice good results. Ive never ran it before. I've only run high doses of test and mast. along with moderate doses of deca and tren combined in different ways. As of now lots of test and low tren is the best for me.

My idea with combining the orals with the slin would be to maximize the amount of anabolism,, if that makes sense. Staggering them dose make sense though too. But I was thinking blasting to get the most out of the slin. But staggering them seems like it might be a better idea.

As for the goals I believe 15 pounds over 5 months shouldn't be a stretch. And I have no idea what the slin should add to it.

 

[newguy35]

I'll be honest, I'm not very familar with M1t. I thought I remember hearing harsh sides, but I dunno.

Whatever you do with the orals, I'd encourage you to go from using the weakest to strongest. Just like progressive dosing, the goals should be to steady continuous strength and size gains through the cycle. If you start off with a very strong oral (M1t or drol), seems like you might experience a strength drop off once you stop it. I'd save the big bad orals for the middle run of orals. That'll probably be when the risk of gains stalling is high, and a nice big push from a heavy oral should keep things rolling. If for the last one you want to use the tbol and var to harden up and solidify your gains thought that makes sense to me.

I'd be interested to where you read 800mg of EQ is a good place to "start". Thats usually where I've thought of the dosing range of EQ topping out for normal guys. I've only played with EQ once, and BP got to be an issue, I'd keep and eye on that.

If you want to get the most out of the slin, being lean is very important, especially since you aren't running GH. Whats your bf like? With preworkout, 10-15 IUs, 4-5 times a week, I'd say that's good for around 10 lbs, maybe a little more, for guys our size. Less obviously the way your using it. As long as your careful with getting the carbs in, don't accidentally shoot it IM (that will end poorly, trust me) or don't do something dumb like shoot it and go to sleep, it's really safe. Were you planning on humalog or R? I'd encourage you to use log, especially if your going to use it post.

Also, just noticed this, why so low on the letro dose? And why letro instead of exemestane?

 

[Dynasty92]

I'm running EQ at 400mg, I thought that was considered the low starting dose. Oh well, its my first cycle, I'll grow.

 

[Standard Donkey]

replace eq with tren E

 

[dieseljimmy]

replace eq with tren E

Hahaha was waiting for this...

 

[dieseljimmy]

Honestly I'm not a huge fan of EQ. But everyone's a little different. I tend to get pretty mean on big doses of EQ. It's not entirely uncommon for people to have emotional issues on EQ at big doses. And I don't respond particularly well. My lifting partner on the other had takes a baby dose of test and a huge EQ dose and some dbol, he looks really good.
I would recommend using a degree of caution with letro... I had a over dosed bottle from a research company and it destroyed my sex drive, my joints hurt, emotional wreck for a few weeks until I figured out what was up. It's too stiff for most but you might be in the right when you get to the 2 g injectable mark. I often get over 2 g but there is usually some mast or primo to cut the need for ai.
Your slin plan is good. Just go slow on the ramp up. Get a cheap monitor at target, watch how you feel when your bloodsugar gets high and low, so you know what to do based on feeling. I ordered a diabetic bracelet took the chain off and put the badge in my wallet... Just in case
Get some morning cardio in to stimulate some appetite, keep the bf in check and to take care of the ticker...( I got a cheap stationary bike on Craig's list and watch CNN every other morning while petaling away)
i don't take a lot of orals but when I do, I take big doses. 100mg a day is not absurd. Tbol gives me nose bleeds, and they really gush. I always have some tissues in my pocket when I get over 50 mg a day.
other then that... You seem gtg.

 

[newguy35]

replace eq with tren E

has anyone ever talked with anyone that's run 1.2 gm tren E??? What was that like??

I'm a test/tren guy at heart, that's all i really need...but geez, i've never gotten close to doses like that...I feel like a monster on half that

 

[dieseljimmy]

has anyone ever talked with anyone that's run 1.2 gm tren E??? What was that like??

I'm a test/tren guy at heart, that's all i really need...but geez, i've never gotten close to doses like that...I feel like a monster on half that

I have been well over a gram of tren e and tren a combined. Had prostate issues within 6 weeks... Tren e is not for me. Much rather run tren a at a moderate dose at the end to tie things together. I really like Masteron better then tren. Tren is more effective, but I don't feel real good on tren... And I want to continue to bump the dose...

 

[Standard Donkey]

has anyone ever talked with anyone that's run 1.2 gm tren E??? What was that like??

I'm a test/tren guy at heart, that's all i really need...but geez, i've never gotten close to doses like that...I feel like a monster on half that

it's pretty awesome

 

[cottonmouth]

I'll be honest, I'm not very familar with M1t. I thought I remember hearing harsh sides, but I dunno.

Whatever you do with the orals, I'd encourage you to go from using the weakest to strongest. Just like progressive dosing, the goals should be to steady continuous strength and size gains through the cycle. If you start off with a very strong oral (M1t or drol), seems like you might experience a strength drop off once you stop it. I'd save the big bad orals for the middle run of orals. That'll probably be when the risk of gains stalling is high, and a nice big push from a heavy oral should keep things rolling. If for the last one you want to use the tbol and var to harden up and solidify your gains thought that makes sense to me.

I'd be interested to where you read 800mg of EQ is a good place to "start". Thats usually where I've thought of the dosing range of EQ topping out for normal guys. I've only played with EQ once, and BP got to be an issue, I'd keep and eye on that.

If you want to get the most out of the slin, being lean is very important, especially since you aren't running GH. Whats your bf like? With preworkout, 10-15 IUs, 4-5 times a week, I'd say that's good for around 10 lbs, maybe a little more, for guys our size. Less obviously the way your using it. As long as your careful with getting the carbs in, don't accidentally shoot it IM (that will end poorly, trust me) or don't do something dumb like shoot it and go to sleep, it's really safe. Were you planning on humalog or R? I'd encourage you to use log, especially if your going to use it post.

Also, just noticed this, why so low on the letro dose? And why letro instead of exemestane?

I find letro to be very strong, and that's all I need for for 950mg/wk test and 30mg/day dbol to control my estro. And im sensitive, had gyno surgery once, he missed a bit on the right side that i will be getting removed here soon. Ive read of people dosing higher and eod or e3d. I find ed to keep my blood levels more stable. its also much cheaper than exe for your per dose cost. I get no estro rebound running at that dose as long as I do eod dosing for about a week and a half before I stop. To me there is no reason to run exe, there is no upside to it for someone blasting and cruising. Unless your pretty new and doing a pct, then I could see its ease of use being worth more.

That makes perfect sense for the orals. Maybe the first oral run dbol at 30-40mg/day, because Ive run it before. Then run tbol or drol I'l see how I'm reacting to the cycle and play it by ear.. then for the last oral, try m1t.

My old training partner took it at 600mg/wk with 750mg/wk test and didn't receive much other than vascularity and some strength around week 6-7 and on.
And for the dosage of EQ I believe not sure if it was him though, brundle,, ran a cycle stating that he didn't get noticeable results from it till he hit 800mg/wk. And about every other thread on here where someone runs eq,, either they wish they did it longer or at a higher dose. So Im figuring on just getting to it.

The way I'm seeing it is eq is less of a mass builder than test and deca. And I'm starting out with a modest dose of test. And all of the doses are just a small guideline, It will depend on how I'm reacting to it,, if I will increase the dose. I could very well just go the whole cycle running a max of 800mg/wk if I'm getting quality results.

And I dont like to guess my bf but I have at least my top 4 abs all day. If I'm dehydrated in the morning I'll have more.. Veins in my quads and delts. The only place I hold fat is on my hips. But I would say less than 10% for sure. Ive been much lower when I wrestled, measured at 6 while hydrated.

I was going to use humulin r for the sake of easy access, and I have no real means of getting log. Post workout, sub q. med-high carb meal pre workout, post worjout I start drinking my carb/protein shake and pin.

I'm going to start on the high side with the carbs, around 9g per iu. then lower till I feel it is acceptably safe with "less" fat gain. Perhaps 6-7g/iu Then a good solid meal about 1.5- 2 hours later... To put it all simply.

 

[cottonmouth]

replace eq with tren E

Maybe my next cycle lol.. But tren has really turned down my appetite.

 

[cottonmouth]

Honestly I'm not a huge fan of EQ. But everyone's a little different. I tend to get pretty mean on big doses of EQ. It's not entirely uncommon for people to have emotional issues on EQ at big doses. And I don't respond particularly well. My lifting partner on the other had takes a baby dose of test and a huge EQ dose and some dbol, he looks really good.
I would recommend using a degree of caution with letro... I had a over dosed bottle from a research company and it destroyed my sex drive, my joints hurt, emotional wreck for a few weeks until I figured out what was up. It's too stiff for most but you might be in the right when you get to the 2 g injectable mark. I often get over 2 g but there is usually some mast or primo to cut the need for ai.
Your slin plan is good. Just go slow on the ramp up. Get a cheap monitor at target, watch how you feel when your bloodsugar gets high and low, so you know what to do based on feeling. I ordered a diabetic bracelet took the chain off and put the badge in my wallet... Just in case
Get some morning cardio in to stimulate some appetite, keep the bf in check and to take care of the ticker...( I got a cheap stationary bike on Craig's list and watch CNN every other morning while petaling away)
i don't take a lot of orals but when I do, I take big doses. 100mg a day is not absurd. Tbol gives me nose bleeds, and they really gush. I always have some tissues in my pocket when I get over 50 mg a day.
other then that... You seem gtg.

Ya, Ive read about the anxiety, I'm pretty stable. Tren doesn't really even do anything to me, Some aggression but nothing remotely alarming.

Ive been using letro as my main ai for my past few cycles. And between bottles, even from the same source I have to adjust the volume of the dose to feel the same.

I was planning on getting a meter and checking my blood glucose for the month before I start running the slin. To get a good average of where I stand at different times of the day and how food affects it. I do cardio about 2-3 days a week now, but will step that up with the use of slin.

100mg/day? damn, the most Ive run was tbol at 70mg/day. I get some pretty solid results from tbol.. Ive heard var and dbol are pretty synergistic, like 50mg/day var with 30mg/day of dbol would be cool to try. And I would be backing off if I was getting nosebleeds lol.

 

[Goodskie]

Tren. I'm on 700mgs ace a week now and feel fine. Little irritability but whatever.

 

[newguy35]

I agree test/deca is a much better mass combo. My second fav combo after test/tren.

Log isn't hard to find from online pharmacy's, I'd encourage you to do so if your still doing post. Humulin R would be much better preworkout...it won't start really peaking until after your workout if you do it right before. R is def less predictable and trickier to control. If you train late in the evening or at night, postworkout R just isn't a good idea IMO. You're going to have to have at least 2 meals to "cover it". You could use it IM to speed things up.

Glad to see your going to play it safe and start on the high side with carbs. Don't forget creatine, leucine, glutamine, etc...anything to volumize your muscles. Glycerol works well too.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

 

[cottonmouth]

I agree test/deca is a much better mass combo. My second fav combo after test/tren.

Log isn't hard to find from online pharmacy's, I'd encourage you to do so if your still doing post. Humulin R would be much better preworkout...it won't start really peaking until after your workout if you do it right before. R is def less predictable and trickier to control. If you train late in the evening or at night, postworkout R just isn't a good idea IMO. You're going to have to have at least 2 meals to "cover it". You could use it IM to speed things up.

Glad to see your going to play it safe and start on the high side with carbs. Don't forget creatine, leucine, glutamine, etc...anything to volumize your muscles. Glycerol works well too.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

Online pharmacy? Like a Canadian one or what? You would need a script for it in states. I would definitely prefer log simply for the smaller window and the safety that comes with it. And I"m for sure going to stick with post my first time. I dont want to go hypo mid workout.

For my shake after a dose of 8iu's. I was thinking of 60g whey isolate, 10g creatine mono, 10g glutamine, 10-15g bcaa's, and dextrose at 72g working my way down to maybe 50g if I feel Ok. I have read very little on glycerol is there a good article on it dealing with slin? maybe dosages, or something.

 

[Standard Donkey]

Maybe my next cycle lol.. But tren has really turned down my appetite.

negged

 

[Standard Donkey]

I agree test/deca is a much better mass combo. My second fav combo after test/tren.

Log isn't hard to find from online pharmacy's, I'd encourage you to do so if your still doing post. Humulin R would be much better preworkout...it won't start really peaking until after your workout if you do it right before. R is def less predictable and trickier to control. If you train late in the evening or at night, postworkout R just isn't a good idea IMO. You're going to have to have at least 2 meals to "cover it". You could use it IM to speed things up.

Glad to see your going to play it safe and start on the high side with carbs. Don't forget creatine, leucine, glutamine, etc...anything to volumize your muscles. Glycerol works well too.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

test/deca better for actually fat-free mass accumulation than test/tren?



unlikely

also negged

 

[Goodskie]

Lmao

 

[newguy35]

test/deca better for actually fat-free mass accumulation than test/tren?

no, a better mass combo than test/eq, I was replying to what he said

"My second fav combo after test/tren" come on now

 

[newguy35]

Online pharmacy? Like a Canadian one or what? You would need a script for it in states. I would definitely prefer log simply for the smaller window and the safety that comes with it. And I"m for sure going to stick with post my first time. I dont want to go hypo mid workout.

For my shake after a dose of 8iu's. I was thinking of 60g whey isolate, 10g creatine mono, 10g glutamine, 10-15g bcaa's, and dextrose at 72g working my way down to maybe 50g if I feel Ok. I have read very little on glycerol is there a good article on it dealing with slin? maybe dosages, or something.

Yeah like a canadian one. Very easy to find, 10 minutes on google and you'll be good. Shake looks good, but if your using R and drinking your shake right after, your slin is going to mostly "miss" your shake.

I've never gone hypo midworkout. I run 15-20 IUs of log pre, with about 120 grams of carbs between my preworkout and intraworkout shake. Keeping glucose tabs or something similar in your gym bag is a good idea. I use smarties, pure dextrose and cheap.

Search for mike arnolds or mutants insulin protocol for more detail on the shakes. I think mine was closer to mikes.

 

[cottonmouth]

Yeah like a canadian one. Very easy to find, 10 minutes on google and you'll be good. Shake looks good, but if your using R and drinking your shake right after, your slin is going to mostly "miss" your shake.

I've never gone hypo midworkout. I run 15-20 IUs of log pre, with about 120 grams of carbs between my preworkout and intraworkout shake. Keeping glucose tabs or something similar in your gym bag is a good idea. I use smarties, pure dextrose and cheap.

Search for mike arnolds or mutants insulin protocol for more detail on the shakes. I think mine was closer to mikes.

Ive read mutants protocol quite a few times.

First how long would you say your workouts are? If log has an active life of about 2 hours, and Mike Aronld's protocol is saying to pin 30 min preworkout. It just seems like you would want a bit more of an active life post workout,, but I do get the main theory of not letting your body break down and just building it. Mutants seems better, pinning it about 15 minutes preworkout, the insulin would be kicking in as soon as the workout starts.

Arnold's shakes have a ton of stuff in them, but there pretty low on whey isolate.. you would figure at least like 50g.

 

[dieseljimmy]

For me...15 slin(r) preworkout needs 50 gram dextrose, 5 gram creatine, 10 mg bcaa during The workout. I always keep some candies in my bag, but never have used them. Drink tons of water, really can make the pump overwhelming... In a good way

 

[blergs.]

replace eq with tren E

Or even mast E I think EQ is crappy, better off adding more test and bumping up AI in my op

 

[XYZ]

I would just run test. Throw in an oral or two and call it a day, like halo and or anadrol.

The changes to the diet every two weeks is really going to be the key, the compounds don't really do much without the proper calories.

20 Weeks is a VERY long cycle, you might want to change that up to something like 10-12.

I've used both the humalog and humilin and trust me you want humalog. The longer acting humulin is just too difficult to control. Humalog is in and out and done.

The hard part for you is going to be dialing in the AI and consuming all of those calories........THAT really gets old after some time.

Good luck.

 

[cottonmouth]

^^ I guess I'm just trying to put off running 1.5g/wk + of test a week. Not that I wouldn't get great results from it, but idk. This interests me.

Ive always wanted to run EQ, it seems that for some people it works great. plus I figure if I'm half way through and I don't like what I'm seeing,, I'l drop the eq and start running some npp/deca to try and save it.,

As long as the EQ doesn't aromotise too much I should be fine with the ai,, Its mainly the second oral I would be worried about, as I plan to run a non-armotising oral for my last.
I'm thinking maybe drol for my first oral at 25mg/day for the 1st week, the 50mg/day for 4 weeks... Second oral being dbol at 30-40mg/day... And the last oral being tbol at 50-70mg/day.

Alright I will definitely be going for log then, the first mesocycle I'll being doing post workout as I feel that is the safest, then when I feel comfortable I'll try pre, maybe starting the second one. Now dose anyone know a quality online pharm, Just kidding.

 

[cottonmouth]

Or even mast E I think EQ is crappy, better off adding more test and bumping up AI in my op

Ive tried mast p at 100mg/day with test p at 100mg/day, I wasn't all that impressed with the mast. I was harder than if I would of just run the test, that's for sure, and I didn't gain any fat all. I would of much rather run 50mg/day of tren ace though.

 

[cottonmouth]

And you guys are running a shit ton of slin lol, 15-20iu's just sounds like a ton. Most protocols just going up to ten iu, then they start moving into multiple times a day dosing.

 

[longworthb]

My last cycle was around a gram of test and 900 eq for 20. The eq was mainly for appetite and vascularity but I believe my gains were of higher quality when on eq. Only problems I had was slight insomnia and high rbc. Gained around 15lbs and after water weight came off I was still up 12lbs and hardly any fat at all