With PH/PSs gone, might as well

[Purdue Power]

Well, seeing as how they are taking PH/PS's away from us, and like I have said all along, I think it is about time to take the next step. I predicted that once they were gone, I would probably start on the real stuff, seeing as how it is more effective and probably easier on your body.

My question is one that I have been researching, and I have started reading the Steroids for Dummies post but havn't found the answer yet. I want to start out with a mild cycle that isn't going to be that obvious that I am on. I am not trying to get greedy with my gains....I just want to start out slow. I am willing to do injection and already have plenty of sources. I was just wondering what the mildest/best start would be for me as a stand-alone or stack.

 

[Mudge]

If you dont want it to be obvious, and you are not already shredded, run a cutting cycle. Most of your gains for the first cycle will be food, future cycles are heavily dependant on food but as time goes on the body gets very very stubborn with size.

 

[jpflex66]

anyway prohormones are junk--it shut me down and not as good of results--gear is a legit med approved for a reason--prohormones is not of any medical approved purpose

 

[Purdue Power]

One thing that I havn't understood about cutting cycles for PH's and AAS is this.....during pct with ph's, I know that you have to keep your diet up or you will lose your stregth and size gains due to low test levels, so what do you do during pct to keep from losing?

 

[ZECH]

Most people prefer Nolvadex. You can use or add Clomid. There is a dosing schedule and length for taking it in the stickies. If you haven't already, read this. Good basic info. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catnolv.htm

 

[Purdue Power]

No, I know about that Nolva....It is the fact that you have to keep you food intake up during pct so that you don't lose muscle/strength(at least I know this from my time with ph's). So when you are on a cutting cycle, and you go into your pct, do you still have to switch to a high food intake to keep from losing your muscle mass?

 

[ZECH]

Food or no food, it is about getting your suppressed test levels up as quickly as possible. That is where the Nolva works...........

 

[Purdue Power]

So how bad are the losses during that gap from he time your pct starts and your natural test levels are back up. I know that nothing shuts down like M1T, but I am sure that there is going to be quite a drop in test levels thus causing some major catabolism during that phase. How long does that gap ususually last on a cutting cycle like that? Does HCG during the cycle help that pct transition?

 

[ZECH]

Deca is a bad one to shut you down also. Everyone is different and it varies.
HCG's effect on bringing testicle size back can promote the return of natural testosterone, since the first natural signals can immediately deliver a higher yield of testosterone in the body. And getting natural testosterone back up after a cycle is critical, especially if you intend to keep most of your hard-earned gains. Without adequate natural endocrine response you will not be able to maintain a mass that was higher than before.
Using HCG for too long a period of time or in doses that are excessively high, can desensitize the testicles to the effect of LH and would put your right back where you started from.
HCG should be discontinued at least two weeks before coming off Clomid or Nolvadex or else it will suppress natural testosterone itself.

 

[Mudge]

The thing is if someone just ran a bulker where they were doing 5k calories a day, and all the sudden they take a huge break from eating going down to 2k and taking in hardly any protein - they are going to lose size.

 

[Purdue Power]

But my question comes when you start the pct off of a cutting cycle....do you lose a lot of size in that time frame btw cesation of your cycle and the time your pct is effective? Even though you have been cutting back on your food intake during you cutting cycle and your body is used to it, do you still lose a lot while continuing your diet the same while transitioning to pct?

 

[Mudge]

I have never lost lots of size coming off anything, then again I dont have 23" arms either. If you aren't eating enough to maintain bodyweight, then you are going to lose size.

So if you diet down to 200 pounds and then come off the juice, but you are eating enough for your metabolism if you weighed 180, then you are going to keep losing weight, and size without the anabolics. Are anabolics going to cure everything no matter what your diet is when you are cutting or bulking? No.

 

[Purdue Power]

So when you come off of your cycle while cutting, do you still continue to eat a cutting diet, or do you eat at maintenence until your test levels are back up so that you don't lose much muscle mass? I just know that when I came off of a 1TU cycle over the summer, I started cutting during my pct and I lost a shit load of strenght along with some size.

 

[Mudge]

If you are using gear to cut why would you continue cutting naturally? I would go to maintainance calories if that is what I did.

2-4 months should be plenty of time to cut, so I would not continue further naturally.

 

[Purdue Power]

OK..well, I just don't want to be on while I do a show, in case I am tested. That is the only reason. I just don't know about the gap from the time I stop the AAS and the time that I compete.

 

[SPIKE1257]

The good thing about PS, they are or were inexpensive.. Who can afford to juice ?

 

[Mudge]

Thats a laugh.

Gym prices suck, pricing for people who can get it otherwise, makes PH look like the ripoff products they (generally) are.

Why was M1T a couple bucks a gram WITH middle men involved, when people were paying $80 a bottle? Yeah because the supplement industry is not at all concerned with making massive profits, not in the least!

Someone could very feasibly run gear for $5-$10 a week if they really pinched pennies and shopped around. Now for someone like Ronnie Coleman thats not going to be the same situation of course, because he is a walking pharmacy. I can't speak for all, but plenty of high profile guys get stuff for free as well.

 

[deeno]

Agreed

Up here in Canada, if you go to a supplement shop and ask for M1T they'll charge you upwards of 100 bucks cnd (as ph/ps are not legal here);a cycle of test and dbol would cost me 300cnd.

 

[TrojanMan60563]

I like some PH's but its cheaper for me to just use test and just about any other steroid for that matter. If PH's were going to remain legal the prices would have to drop BIG if I were to use them again. Its a shame how much the companies are ripping folks off for their stuff.

 

[Supermans Daddy]

PH/ PS were a cool middle ground for people that wanted to stay " Legal".Some of them really worked " to a point". But in tha real world. Roids are like Ice cream and PH/PS are like popcicles. Once you've eaten a hot fudge sundae ain't no fuck'n way you gonna think a bomb pop is tha same thing.If ya do, I got some land in tha swamp I wanna sell ya!

 

[Pirate!]

PH/ PS were a cool middle ground for people that wanted to stay " Legal".Some of them really worked " to a point". But in tha real world. Roids are like Ice cream and PH/PS are like popcicles. Once you've eaten a hot fudge sundae ain't no fuck'n way you gonna think a bomb pop is tha same thing.If ya do, I got some land in tha swamp I wanna sell ya!

Nice Analogy. I'm done with the PH/PS, personally. Unfortunately, I have to sell my stash at a loss. Atleast I know better, now.

 

[Mudge]

Up here in Canada, if you go to a supplement shop and ask for M1T they'll charge you upwards of 100 bucks cnd (as ph/ps are not legal here);a cycle of test and dbol would cost me 300cnd.

Lots of Canadians are doing far better in the price war arena than that.

 

[deeno]

Possibly

The 300 cnd includes 200 5mg DBOL and 2 vials of test enan at 250mg. The source is a sure thing so I don't mind shelling out a bill more...

 

[Mudge]

Been awhile since I've hunted down dbol tabs but 1000 for $175 USD is not unheard of. Powder is still cheaper of course.

 

[TrojanMan60563]

When I was in Thailand you could get 1000 pinks for $10US....I could ring my own neck for not getting a few cases of them sent back home...hehehe

 

[Mudge]

That tells you how much markup there is here, $10 is insane. Thats cheaper than domestic powder.

 

[Supermans Daddy]

It went up, their $11.50 US . Peace n Love

 

[TrojanMan60563]

Mudge at the time I was in the Navy and knew next to nothing about the drugs....a LOT of marines and navy guys stocked up while we were in port for like 4 days. If I only knew.....looks like prices gone up a bit huh Mikhal....still cheaper then dirt.

 

[Purdue Power]

I like some PH's but its cheaper for me to just use test and just about any other steroid for that matter. If PH's were going to remain legal the prices would have to drop BIG if I were to use them again. Its a shame how much the companies are ripping folks off for their stuff.

You can't argue with Underground Labs' prices for their ph/ps's. There is nothing cheaper and they have the best stuff that there is. They are about the only exception. Designer Suppliments has great prices too...only slightly higher than UGL.