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2009 Boston Red Sox
- Thread starter soxmuscle
- Start date
Mariano > Papalbon
I had to explain this to a few Red sox fans.
I like relievers who shut down other teams, not add to the problem.
Your saying he will be a starter?
I really was interested in him but not so much now.
I really was interested in him but not so much now.
It's amazing how he throws the same pitch down the middle and they still miss.
The Yankees will miss him once he retires, I know I will.
He's probably one of the best NY relievers that I have ever seen, Goose was also great..so was Sparky and Jesse for a short time.
The Yankees will miss him once he retires, I know I will.
He's probably one of the best NY relievers that I have ever seen, Goose was also great..so was Sparky and Jesse for a short time.
Yankee mentions in this thread = gayer than Will and Grace.
told ya.
I see the Yankees cooling off so if they win the series I will be happy but I don't expect them to.
tonights line-up of: Ellsbury, Pedroia, Martinez, Youkilis, Bay, Ortiz, Lowell, Drew, Gonzalez is the best line up the Red Sox can throw out.
if/when Ortiz slumps, you swap Ortiz with Drew.
if/when Ortiz slumps, you swap Ortiz with Drew.
Drew and Bay are hitting of late so it should be a different game.
Varitek and Nick Green were two crater sized gaping holes in the Red Sox line up.
They go from being an NL team who can't score runs for the last two months to having one of the (statistically speaking) better offenses in the game.
They go from being an NL team who can't score runs for the last two months to having one of the (statistically speaking) better offenses in the game.
The best.
Wow, I know they need to rest the bullpen but can you imagine what is going on this kids mind right now....his confidence level should be down the toilet.
Victor martinez is awful as a catcher, good bat but he's not a catcher.
Victor martinez is awful as a catcher, good bat but he's not a catcher.
They need to fire Epstien and Francona now before it's too late.
PEDROIA'S EFFORT LEVEL LEAVES ROBBIE IN DUST
August 22, 2009 -- BOSTON -- I formed a seven- man committee comprised of one NL GM, one AL GM, and five assistants -- three NL and two AL -- and posed this question:
If you could have Robinson Cano or Dustin Pedroia for the next five years, who would you take and why?
The result surprised me. All seven executives picked Pedroia. He is the reigning MVP. But his 2009 season is down from last year while Cano has rebounded to have a positive campaign. Pedroia just turned 26, Cano turns 27 in October. I thought Cano might receive some extra points for potentially aging better than Pedroia, whose all-or-nothing swing scares me for the long term.
However, all seven respondents followed a basic theme: "Pedroia has better makeup and gives his all every day," an NL exec said. "On natural ability, Cano tops the list. But Pedroia is a winner and a leader."
Right now, the Red Sox need more than Pedroia's positive, gritty nature, however. It would help if he could, for example, pitch. The Yankees beat the Red Sox 20-11 last night to open a 7½-game AL East lead. So it appears that at advantage at second base (Pedroia went 2-for-5 with an RBI; Cano 1-for-6 with an RBI and two runs) is not going to help Boston repeat as division champs.
Still, what became obvious from the respondents was that Cano has an image problem that lingers even as his overall game has improved this year. For if both second basemen took the field in workout garb for hitting, running, throwing and fielding drills, Cano likely would be the more impressive player. But the perception lingers that Cano does not concentrate well and floats through too many at-bats, while Pedroia treats every inning as a baseball holy war.
"I trust [Pedroia's] ability to grind and persevere more than Cano," the NL GM said.
This explains why Pedroia vs. Cano has felt like a treatise on substance vs. style.
In recent years, as the Red Sox have become champs and the Yanks high-priced disappointments, the rivalry -- in many ways -- could be defined at second base: Pedroia was tough, team-oriented and totally invested mentally and physically in winning. Cano was even described by one Yankee as "soft" and is viewed as not maximizing his abundant skills or being a winning player. Cano often appears to value making plays look good rather than simply completing the play.
Even Yankees hitting coach Kevin Long, a Cano fan, said of Pedroia: "He might get the best out of his abilities of anyone in baseball. Whatever is in his tank, he gets the most out of it."
Long feels Cano's concentration is improving. That has manifested on defense this year where Long called him "impeccable." Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR) has Pedroia as the majors' best defensive second baseman and Cano as a negative player. I just don't buy it for Cano. He has eliminated the botched routine play while remaining brilliant going to his right and turning double plays.
On offense, however, Cano's discipline remains a problem. He is batting .203 (29-for-143) with runners in scoring position and .330 (123-for-373) otherwise. Pedroia is hitting .330 with runners in scoring position. Still he had fewer homers (18-10), extra-base hits (54-47) and RBIs (61-53) than Cano. Pedroia, though, had drawn 31 more walks (54-23). He also looks the underdog at 5-9 and prematurely bald. What is forgotten is Pedroia was talented enough to be a second-round pick (2004) pick. Still, it is hard to argue a substance edge over Cano.
And Cano, at the least, knows where he needs to narrow the gap: "You never stop learning baseball," he said. "And, yes, I am trying to be focused all the time."
joel.sherman@nypost.com
August 22, 2009 -- BOSTON -- I formed a seven- man committee comprised of one NL GM, one AL GM, and five assistants -- three NL and two AL -- and posed this question:
If you could have Robinson Cano or Dustin Pedroia for the next five years, who would you take and why?
The result surprised me. All seven executives picked Pedroia. He is the reigning MVP. But his 2009 season is down from last year while Cano has rebounded to have a positive campaign. Pedroia just turned 26, Cano turns 27 in October. I thought Cano might receive some extra points for potentially aging better than Pedroia, whose all-or-nothing swing scares me for the long term.
However, all seven respondents followed a basic theme: "Pedroia has better makeup and gives his all every day," an NL exec said. "On natural ability, Cano tops the list. But Pedroia is a winner and a leader."
Right now, the Red Sox need more than Pedroia's positive, gritty nature, however. It would help if he could, for example, pitch. The Yankees beat the Red Sox 20-11 last night to open a 7½-game AL East lead. So it appears that at advantage at second base (Pedroia went 2-for-5 with an RBI; Cano 1-for-6 with an RBI and two runs) is not going to help Boston repeat as division champs.
Still, what became obvious from the respondents was that Cano has an image problem that lingers even as his overall game has improved this year. For if both second basemen took the field in workout garb for hitting, running, throwing and fielding drills, Cano likely would be the more impressive player. But the perception lingers that Cano does not concentrate well and floats through too many at-bats, while Pedroia treats every inning as a baseball holy war.
"I trust [Pedroia's] ability to grind and persevere more than Cano," the NL GM said.
This explains why Pedroia vs. Cano has felt like a treatise on substance vs. style.
In recent years, as the Red Sox have become champs and the Yanks high-priced disappointments, the rivalry -- in many ways -- could be defined at second base: Pedroia was tough, team-oriented and totally invested mentally and physically in winning. Cano was even described by one Yankee as "soft" and is viewed as not maximizing his abundant skills or being a winning player. Cano often appears to value making plays look good rather than simply completing the play.
Even Yankees hitting coach Kevin Long, a Cano fan, said of Pedroia: "He might get the best out of his abilities of anyone in baseball. Whatever is in his tank, he gets the most out of it."
Long feels Cano's concentration is improving. That has manifested on defense this year where Long called him "impeccable." Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR) has Pedroia as the majors' best defensive second baseman and Cano as a negative player. I just don't buy it for Cano. He has eliminated the botched routine play while remaining brilliant going to his right and turning double plays.
On offense, however, Cano's discipline remains a problem. He is batting .203 (29-for-143) with runners in scoring position and .330 (123-for-373) otherwise. Pedroia is hitting .330 with runners in scoring position. Still he had fewer homers (18-10), extra-base hits (54-47) and RBIs (61-53) than Cano. Pedroia, though, had drawn 31 more walks (54-23). He also looks the underdog at 5-9 and prematurely bald. What is forgotten is Pedroia was talented enough to be a second-round pick (2004) pick. Still, it is hard to argue a substance edge over Cano.
And Cano, at the least, knows where he needs to narrow the gap: "You never stop learning baseball," he said. "And, yes, I am trying to be focused all the time."
joel.sherman@nypost.com
August 23, 2009 -- BOSTON -- Just about the only downside for the Yankees in Friday night's blowout of the Red Sox was how much it was reminiscent of their Game 3 victory in the 2004 ALCS.
The Yankees won that contest 19-8 at Fenway, Hideki Matsui hit two homers and the Yanks took a three-games-to-none lead. At that moment, the Yanks appeared more likely to join a Broadway chorus line en masse than fail to reach the World Series. Their magic number was one with four games to play. But they never did get that victory, and no one ever Cursed again.
Well on Friday night, the Yankees hit everything except that low-hanging scoreboard in the new Cowboys stadium. There were moments at Fenway you were sure they might reach the short porch in right in The Bronx. The Yankees won 20-11 behind two homers from Matsui.
They entered yesterday leading the Red Sox by 7½ games with one-quarter of the season left. For the record, their magic number was 34. But the most important magic -- it seemed -- was percolating in the Yankees clubhouse. The team's confidence was peaking. They have a cresting sense that they are a special group.
Of course that is exactly how it felt in the visiting clubhouse at Fenway after the game of Oct. 16, 2004. The Yankees were soaring, the Red Sox were reeling. The World Series felt inevitable for the Yanks, and so did the continuing domination of Boston.Five Yankees remain from the worst collapse in postseason history (Matsui, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera). So this is a clubhouse that should know you don't pour champagne prematurely.
After all, blowing a three-games-to-none lead in the postseason is unique. But since 1900, eight teams that trailed by 7½ games or more after the 121-game mark have gone on to finish first, including the 1978 Yankees.
And the lead is now 6½. Maybe that means nothing. It is still a commanding lead this late in the year. The Yanks have CC Sabathia on the mound tonight with a chance to win yet another series -- albeit the Yankees ace will have to contend with Red Sox ace Josh Beckett. The Yankees are still the majors' hottest team.
Yet a 14-1 Red Sox rout yesterday provides pause to all the celebrating. Joe Girardi had said after the Yankees' four-game sweep of Boston in the Bronx earlier this month gave them a 6½-game lead that the division race would go to the wire. He said the same after yesterday's debacle, though the lead was still 6½ and 13 more games had come off the schedule.
Girardi is cautious by nature. However, he also knows the Yanks still have a West Coast trip left, the Red Sox have a soft close to their schedule, and Boston is expecting Tim Wakefield to return to its rotation next week, Daisuke Matsuzaka perhaps sometime in September, and just might have Billy Wagner pitching in set-up relief soon.
"I don't think any of our players have thought this thing was locked up," Girardi said. "That is a good team across the way. I expect both teams to play to a high level the rest of the way."
Maybe what made 14-1 feel particularly bad was the way A.J. Burnett pitched. He was beat up at Fenway for a third straight time as a Yankee. His wandering concentration enabled the Red Sox to end a five-game losing streak to the Yanks and assure no worse than a tie in a season series that Boston now leads 9-5.
The Red Sox are 70-52 overall, the same record they had after 122 games in 2004. They wound up as the wild card then and very well may again. Either way the lesson should not fade for these Yankees that when it comes to Boston, down is not out.
The Yankees won that contest 19-8 at Fenway, Hideki Matsui hit two homers and the Yanks took a three-games-to-none lead. At that moment, the Yanks appeared more likely to join a Broadway chorus line en masse than fail to reach the World Series. Their magic number was one with four games to play. But they never did get that victory, and no one ever Cursed again.
Well on Friday night, the Yankees hit everything except that low-hanging scoreboard in the new Cowboys stadium. There were moments at Fenway you were sure they might reach the short porch in right in The Bronx. The Yankees won 20-11 behind two homers from Matsui.
They entered yesterday leading the Red Sox by 7½ games with one-quarter of the season left. For the record, their magic number was 34. But the most important magic -- it seemed -- was percolating in the Yankees clubhouse. The team's confidence was peaking. They have a cresting sense that they are a special group.
Of course that is exactly how it felt in the visiting clubhouse at Fenway after the game of Oct. 16, 2004. The Yankees were soaring, the Red Sox were reeling. The World Series felt inevitable for the Yanks, and so did the continuing domination of Boston.Five Yankees remain from the worst collapse in postseason history (Matsui, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera). So this is a clubhouse that should know you don't pour champagne prematurely.
After all, blowing a three-games-to-none lead in the postseason is unique. But since 1900, eight teams that trailed by 7½ games or more after the 121-game mark have gone on to finish first, including the 1978 Yankees.
And the lead is now 6½. Maybe that means nothing. It is still a commanding lead this late in the year. The Yanks have CC Sabathia on the mound tonight with a chance to win yet another series -- albeit the Yankees ace will have to contend with Red Sox ace Josh Beckett. The Yankees are still the majors' hottest team.
Yet a 14-1 Red Sox rout yesterday provides pause to all the celebrating. Joe Girardi had said after the Yankees' four-game sweep of Boston in the Bronx earlier this month gave them a 6½-game lead that the division race would go to the wire. He said the same after yesterday's debacle, though the lead was still 6½ and 13 more games had come off the schedule.
Girardi is cautious by nature. However, he also knows the Yanks still have a West Coast trip left, the Red Sox have a soft close to their schedule, and Boston is expecting Tim Wakefield to return to its rotation next week, Daisuke Matsuzaka perhaps sometime in September, and just might have Billy Wagner pitching in set-up relief soon.
"I don't think any of our players have thought this thing was locked up," Girardi said. "That is a good team across the way. I expect both teams to play to a high level the rest of the way."
Maybe what made 14-1 feel particularly bad was the way A.J. Burnett pitched. He was beat up at Fenway for a third straight time as a Yankee. His wandering concentration enabled the Red Sox to end a five-game losing streak to the Yanks and assure no worse than a tie in a season series that Boston now leads 9-5.
The Red Sox are 70-52 overall, the same record they had after 122 games in 2004. They wound up as the wild card then and very well may again. Either way the lesson should not fade for these Yankees that when it comes to Boston, down is not out.
Papelbon: Red Sox don't need Wagner's help
Billy Wagner is willing to waive his no-trade clause to join the Red Sox, but a pair of potential teammates don't seem thrilled with the idea.
Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon questioned whether or not Wagner would be able to help Boston in the stretch drive after missing most of the season.
"What has he done? Has he pitched this year?" Jonathan Papelbon told WEEI.com. "Is he ready to pitch or is he not? ... I think our bullpen is good where we're at right now. Don't get me wrong. But I guess you could always make it better. It's kind of like the [Eric] Gagne thing, I guess."
Wagner pitched for the first time this season on Thursday -- retiring the Braves 1-2-3, while striking out two. But Papelbon's comparison to Gagne was not meant as a compliment. The Red Sox traded for Gagne late in 2007 and he bombed in Boston compiling a 6.75 ERA in 20 appearances.
Manny Delcarmen, Papelbon's setup man, agreed with the team's closer.
"We loved Gagne coming over here, just the stuff that he had, but it was an awkward situation this late in the season," Delcarmen said. "I think our bullpen is fine right now. It is what it is. If [Wagner] comes and helps us win, that's what we want. But sometimes, shaking things up this late might work out different. We'll see what happens."
-- Justin Terranova
Billy Wagner is willing to waive his no-trade clause to join the Red Sox, but a pair of potential teammates don't seem thrilled with the idea.
Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon questioned whether or not Wagner would be able to help Boston in the stretch drive after missing most of the season.
"What has he done? Has he pitched this year?" Jonathan Papelbon told WEEI.com. "Is he ready to pitch or is he not? ... I think our bullpen is good where we're at right now. Don't get me wrong. But I guess you could always make it better. It's kind of like the [Eric] Gagne thing, I guess."
Wagner pitched for the first time this season on Thursday -- retiring the Braves 1-2-3, while striking out two. But Papelbon's comparison to Gagne was not meant as a compliment. The Red Sox traded for Gagne late in 2007 and he bombed in Boston compiling a 6.75 ERA in 20 appearances.
Manny Delcarmen, Papelbon's setup man, agreed with the team's closer.
"We loved Gagne coming over here, just the stuff that he had, but it was an awkward situation this late in the season," Delcarmen said. "I think our bullpen is fine right now. It is what it is. If [Wagner] comes and helps us win, that's what we want. But sometimes, shaking things up this late might work out different. We'll see what happens."
-- Justin Terranova
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God dammit, Papelbon, SHUT THE FUCK UP.
He didn't get a chance to pitch against NY, so he had to get into the limelight somehow.
And it did my heart good to see Beckett get Smoltzed by the Yankees. 
I honestly thought he would have won this game...5 homers. Wow.And it did my heart good to see Beckett get Smoltzed by the Yankees.
Burnett getting outpitched by the rookie was a disappointment. 
yeah, I really thought we had a chance there.Burnett getting outpitched by the rookie was a disappointment.
The guy has unbelievable stuff. They keep saying he can't work with Posada but when he pitched brilliantly against Boston it was with Posada.
They gave Boston a soft schedule to end the season.
It's not that soft.
8 vs Chicago
6 vs Tampa
3 vs LA
3 vs NY
Somewhat easier:
6 vs Toronto
Gimmes:
5 vs Bal
4 vs KC
Boy that Jose Contreras third inning last night was both awesome yet terribly painful to watch.
Gonzalez: Single
Ellsbury: Fly out
Pedroia: Pop out
(ok, two outs now with man on first)
Martinez: Walk
Youkilis: Hit by pitch
Ortiz: Reaches on Contreras error, Gonzales scores
Bay: Walk, Martinez scores
Contreras wild pitch scores Youkilis
Lowell: 3 run HR
Pitching change
Gonzalez: Single
Ellsbury: Fly out
Pedroia: Pop out
(ok, two outs now with man on first)
Martinez: Walk
Youkilis: Hit by pitch
Ortiz: Reaches on Contreras error, Gonzales scores
Bay: Walk, Martinez scores
Contreras wild pitch scores Youkilis
Lowell: 3 run HR
Pitching change
