New User, Getting Back into Lifting, help appreciated

[hobby10k]

New Member, Been quite some time since I have lifted and getting back into it. Haven't lifted since my Deployment in the middle east in 2004, and I have always lifted to get cut, have never lifted to bulk, and I now want to bulk up!! Came across this site as I was looking and will be trying to find the best supplement package for bulking and cutting a little fat.

Checked out GMC today and they seem to be very expensive, and from the tread I just read seems that everyone agrees they are very expensive. The guy suggested these supplements as the best program they have: Mega men multivitamin, Amplified wheybolic extreme 60, and the Raw Ravage. In a package deal for about $130 (would last a month)

Before I went in there I thought I was interested in: Amplified mass XXX, pre workout complex and post workout complex. He recommended those other supplements above what I was interested.

You guys would be the Best advice. Is what he recommended the best program package?

Is there something else that you would recommend that is as good or better, or a better price?

Any help is much appreciated. Would like to get well informed before I start shelling out the little cash I have to try and get the best results I can.

 

[Marat]

He's giving you a sales pitch.

But to back up a few steps, why do you think you need any of those supplements?

 

[hobby10k]

work

well since I am hitting the gym twice a day I would like to get some quicker results. I believe that supplements will help do that.

I Do cardio and weights every day, Ether cardio weights mixed in the morning and only cardio in the mid day, or just cardio in the morning and wights cardio mid day.

since I have never lifted to bulk up, I think that supplements will fuel my muscles, and will see quicker results VS. no supplements at all.

 

[Marat]

I guess we should break down those supplements.

Amplified wheybolic etc is basically a typical meal replacement-type shake. It has some fat, carbs, and protein in every serving. This can certainly be implemented if you'd like. However, you'd get the same benefits from regular food. There is no additional, major ergogenic benefit to that shake -- it's just calories. Eating more food is the same idea as the shake. You would be extremely well served to get a good grasp on the relationship between the effects of consuming that shake and the effects from eating food.

Also, the shake contains some vague creatine concoction -- "Creatine Matrix Blend". Only three grams of it too. It probably contains random forms of creatine that tend to not be very effective. If it were to contain creatine monohydrate, it would probably say so. Additionally, because protein shakes tend to not dissolve fully, you probably wouldn't get much benefit out of the creatine anyway.

Also, the shake has a bunch sugar too. 20g per 50g of protein.

You can keep this in if you feel that you need the supplement to boost your protein intake. My suggestion is to ditch this shake and go with something like Isopure or Optimum Nutrition -- a (probably) more inexpensive product that doesn't have so much sugar in it. I believe GNC actually carries Isopure and if you can argue enough with them to drop the price and tack on the gold member discount (or whatever it's called), you can get a pretty good deal on it.

The pre/post workout complexes are invariably going to be some mixture of a cheap "creatine complex", some caffeine/stimulants (a small amount of it), sugar, and some arginine for "pump".

This isn't really going to make you randomly stronger or bigger or really train too much harder. The caffeine (stimulants) is nice, but they are going to wildly overcharge you for it. You can buy a bunch of 200mg tablets for 10 bucks at a drug store. Check the label to see how much caffeine they are giving you.

If you like the 'pump' from arginine (or l-arginine), you can buy some. Note that this has ZERO ergogenic benefit. Glycerin can be effective too.

Also, the creatine in the pre/post workout stuff isn't going to be too effective. It's going to be tough to dissolve the complex, same as the protein powder, they are probably going to be full of random stuff that has filled up Will Brink's Creatine Graveyard.

There's nothing wrong with mixing up a shake on your way home from the gym, but recognize the relationship between the ingredients in the pre/post supplement and food. Mostly, the shake is a convenience thing, not an ergogenic aid.

Regarding achieving your goals, I recommend you reevaluate your diet and training. It doesn't seem like you have a firm understanding of supplementation -- usually, this means that you probably don't have a strong grasp of nutrition either. No big deal, I recommend hanging around the Diet and Nutrition section.



The big picture is that any supplementation is going to be useless if your diet and training is in order. Especially regarding the post/pre workout stuff, having an understanding of how they affect your body will give you a much clearer idea on whether or not they are worth their cost.

In the meantime, my two cents is to find yourself a good creatine. Something like Optimum Nutrition's Micronized Creatine Monohydrate is a good idea. Basically, any micronized creapure creatine monohydrate is the way to go.

Also, if you want a stimulant, head to the drug store and pick up some caffeine tabs. Start with 200mg and bump it up as you see fit. It's probably a good idea to keep the upper limit at about a gram.

While you're at the drug store, pick up an inexpensive multivitamin.

 

[hobby10k]

Thank you

Thank you Very much for the information.

We (the wife and I) have a pretty nutritious diet, and have kicked it up a notch since I got serious and hitting the gym full time again. We for quite a few years now eliminated processed foods from our diet and eating lean meats and whole grains. I admit the wife has been much better at sticking to that than I have, that is until now since hitting the gym and am taking it serious.

I do need to research a good building diet meal plan and will check that out in the diet and nutrition section.

This type goal is a new thing to me. I wrestled most of my life and was a fighter for years, so I never really lifted for size.

I will most definitely take your advice and get the Micronized Creatine, multivitamin, and some Isopure or Optimum Nutrition.

It looks like the Optimum nutrition Hydro Builder has Protein, creapure creatine (5g), and Aminos in it. Would this be an "all in one" or would you recommend getting the Micronized Creatine Powder additionally to go along with this?

Than you very much for your help.

 

[Marat]

I'm not so much a fan of those "all in one" products. In order for creatine to be most effective, it needs to dissolve fully before you drink it -- it's tough for this to happen when it's mixed in with a product like Hydro Builder.

Check out something like this for your protein and this for your creatine.

Shop around for better deals -- the ON website just sells whatever the msrp is. You also don't necessarily have to go with those products, any creapure micronized creatine monohydrate and any non-junk-filled protein powder is a good idea. I don't recommend the creatine that they have in GNC.

Here is the Isopure jug that I mentioned. After some random instant discounts and that member rewards card thing, I think I was able to buy it for under $75 at GNC. I'm not much of a fan of the majority of the products in their store, but I think that the Isopure protein that they carry is pretty good stuff.

There are many good options for protein powders. I just recommend avoiding the products that have a bunch of sugar or proprietary formulas that just increase the price without providing much ergogenic benefit.

Also, protein powder isn't necessarily a requirement. I recommend buying the creatine but you don't necessarily need the protein. If you are able to get in sufficient protein through your diet, then the powder will provide no additional benefit. The protein powder is more of a convenience thing -- sometimes it's difficult to prepare food in a pinch, preparing a shake only takes a few minutes.


Regarding your nutrition: in order to gain weight, you need to be in a caloric surplus. Just taking in a "healthy" diet is not sufficient in building muscle.

Check out the link in my signature for details. The "do it yourself diet" is a good place to start.

 

[CaptainNapalm]

I wouldn't take any supplements for at least 3 months. Just eat right and train hard and this should gauge you great results alone since your body has not been under any kind of stress for a while. Once you get a bit bigger it might take more to fuel your body so then you can consider supplementing with weigh protein (even this is not necessary if you eat right) and possibly creatine. I found I always put on a few solid pounds on creatine and my endurance and ability to lift heavy improved noticeably along with nice pumps.

Bottom line: I'd go for 3-6 months with no supplements (just eating and training right) then I'd throw in some creatine mono into the mix (very inexpensive) and possibly some protein if need be. I'm also a religious user of fish oil but I'm not sure that's relative to your bulking goals.

 

[Good Grip]

I wouldn't take any supplements for at least 3 months. Just eat right and train hard and this should gauge you great results alone since your body has not been under any kind of stress for a while. Once you get a bit bigger it might take more to fuel your body so then you can consider supplementing with weigh protein (even this is not necessary if you eat right) and possibly creatine. I found I always put on a few solid pounds on creatine and my endurance and ability to lift heavy improved noticeably along with nice pumps.

Bottom line: I'd go for 3-6 months with no supplements (just eating and training right) then I'd throw in some creatine mono into the mix (very inexpensive) and possibly some protein if need be. I'm also a religious user of fish oil but I'm not sure that's relative to your bulking goals.

I like this. Not bad Captain.

 

[Marat]

I'm cool with Captain's opinion as well -- definitely good advice.

 

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