Pissed off retired member of SEAL Team 6 launches anti-Obama PAC

[maniclion]

No only under Obama, payed for quite a few welfare and unemployment checks

The taxes I pay go to the paychecks of the soldiers who guard the Tomb of the Unknowns, so I don't worry about taxes being too high. Maybe some soldiers, sailors, Marines or Airmen or even the grounds keepers at Arlington National Cemetary or National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific can use your taxes.

 

[Standard Donkey]

bin laden was nothing more than a scape goat

 

[secdrl]

This thread got boring.

 

[LAM]

bin laden was nothing more than a scape goat

that is painfully obvious....anybody that has read the Defense Planning Guidance (Wolfwitz Doctrine) knows the neo-cons had been trying to find a way to invade the middle east since the early 90's and it's right there in black in white in the National Security Archives...

 

[ALBOB]

it sure does matter what happened. 9-11 was used to get the Patriot Act passed along with the excuse to invade the middle east for the cost of several trillion dollars. going into debt to fund US imperialism does nothing to help the economy in the US, it weakens it.

This is the argument that's confused me for years. What exactly did we gain? You say we staged all this stuff to spread U.S. imperialism yet, I don't see that happening. So again, what has come from this vast conspiracy???

 

[troubador]

This is the argument that's confused me for years. What exactly did we gain? You say we staged all this stuff to spread U.S. imperialism yet, I don't see that happening. So again, what has come from this vast conspiracy???

Conspiracy theorists like a conspiracy story to be large, complex and impractical. They seem to live by the tenet 'the most complex explanation is usually the right one'.

They've already come up with one for the Batman shooter. First you start by pointing out that things don't add up, then you offer a complex and intricate explanation. Colorado Batman shooting shows obvious signs of being staged

 

[troubador]

The Conspiracy Theory Detector: Scientific American

Nevertheless, we cannot just dismiss all such theories out of hand, because real conspiracies do sometimes happen. Instead we should look for signs that indicate a conspiracy theory is likely to be untrue. The more that it manifests the following characteristics, the less probable that the theory is grounded in reality:

1. Proof of the conspiracy supposedly emerges from a pattern of ?connecting the dots? between events that need not be causally connected. When no evidence supports these connections except the allegation of the conspiracy or when the evidence fits equally well to other causal connections?or to randomness?the conspiracy theory is likely to be false.
2. The agents behind the pattern of the conspiracy would need nearly superhuman power to pull it off. People are usually not nearly so powerful as we think they are.
3. The conspiracy is complex, and its successful completion demands a large number of elements.
4. Similarly, the conspiracy involves large numbers of people who would all need to keep silent about their secrets. The more people involved, the less realistic it becomes.
5. The conspiracy encompasses a grand ambition for control over a nation, economy or political system. If it suggests world domination, the theory is even less likely to be true.
6. The conspiracy theory ratchets up from small events that might be true to much larger, much less probable events.
7. The conspiracy theory assigns portentous, sinister meanings to what are most likely innocuous, insignificant events.
8. The theory tends to commingle facts and speculations without distinguishing between the two and without assigning degrees of probability or of factuality.
9. The theorist is indiscriminately suspicious of all government agencies or private groups, which suggests an inability to nuance differences between true and false conspiracies.
10. The conspiracy theorist refuses to consider alternative explanations, rejecting all disconfirming evidence and blatantly seeking only confirmatory evidence to support what he or she has a priori determined to be the truth.

 

[IronAddict]

We were mindlessly interjected into the middle east, why ? Well, to "spread democracy".

This hasn't worked according to plans, because those people want nothing associated with the west....

No matter how hard we try, no matter how much of the volunteer forces we send there to strong arm these people, they will not agree.

kinda like how we acted with the English in the time before the revolution, nothing you can do will change our minds, nothing.

Even at the point of a barrel!

 

[LAM]

This is the argument that's confused me for years. What exactly did we gain? You say we staged all this stuff to spread U.S. imperialism yet, I don't see that happening. So again, what has come from this vast conspiracy???

It's not about us as in you and I ALBOB it's about the capitalist at the top that have interests overseas like the oil company's the banks, etc. the US large firms the people with billions of dollars worth of stocks in their company's. it's never about the working class, ever....in their eyes anyone not worth a couple of hundred million is poor...

they said that a plane hit the Pentagon yet there was not one single body found, not one seat from an airliner, and not a single piece of luggage. well that would be the first time in history that a plane crashed with no signs of the occupants or their luggage.
and what was wrapped up in that blue tarp that they didn't want anyone to see? if it was wreckage from an airliner why would it need to be hidden? it makes zero sense at all....ditto goes to the flight 93 in Shewnksville, PA...no bodies, no seats and no luggage......so there were both obvious lies and who lies about the truth?

according to architects and fire experts no steel framed building has collapsed from fire, ever...and we are to believe that 3 did on the same day hours apart from each other...bullshit especially when combined with eyewitnesses that all claim to have heard small explosions. there is nothing in the standard office building that causes explosions, there are no combustible materials except for those used in construction. so what did all of these people hear?

 

[maniclion]

It always puzzles me that when demoing buildings they have to bring it down strategically with explosions staged on all floors so it falls in a nice straight down pattern without toppling. If the WTC taught us anything all we have to is make one large explosion at the top a few floors down, it worked twice on 9/11/01...

 

[troubador]

It always puzzles me that when demoing buildings they have to bring it down strategically with explosions staged on all floors so it falls in a nice straight down pattern without toppling. If the WTC taught us anything all we have to is make one large explosion at the top a few floors down, it worked twice on 9/11/01...

As the joists on one or two of the most heavily burned floors gave way and the outer box columns began to bow outward, the floors above them also fell. The floor below (with its 1,300 t design capacity) could not support the roughly 45,000 t of ten floors (or more) above crashing down on these angle clips. This started the domino effect that caused the buildings to collapse within ten seconds, hitting bottom with an estimated speed of 200 km per hour. If it had been free fall, with no restraint, the collapse would have only taken eight seconds and would have impacted at 300 km/h.[SUP][SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE][/SUP] It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure. Third, given the near free-fall collapse, there was insufficient time for portions to attain significant lateral velocity. To summarize all of these points, a 500,000 t structure has too much inertia to fall in any direction other than nearly straight down.

Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation

 

[LAM]

Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation

ensuing fires? those giant balls of flames that appeared when the planes impacted was the majority of the fuel as it ignited all at once when it became vaporized from the impact.

if the fire was so hot how is it that people are seen standing and looking out of the holes made in the exterior walls? heat rises so those people would have been a tad more than "extremely" uncomfortable from the fire burning in the floors below them.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/docs/woman_in_blackhole.jpg

why was all of the scrap steel shipped off to China so rapidly? it was not even examined. under any normal LE investigation that would have been considered destroying evidence.

and why did GWB take off the entire month of August? as if he was resting up for something...

so the jury is still out on the collapse of the towers but what about building #7?

and then back to the plane crashes at the Pentagon and PA...where are the bodies? where are the seats and the rest of the interior of the aircraft and where is the luggage?

 

[troubador]

ensuing fires? those giant balls of flames that appeared when the planes impacted was the majority of the fuel as it ignited all at once when it became vaporized from the impact.

That doesn't make sense, regardless of being vaporized, concentrations will still have to be below the upper flammability limit.

As to people seen standing in the holes - they're were also people jumping to their deaths to escape the blaze. There's no reason to believe the impact hole was the hottest point. In fact every video shows huge billows of smoke and you can see the inferno in the adjacent exterior wall to the impact hole after the tower was hit. You can see the the adjacent side up in flames while the impact side didn't have nearly as much fire. Also enthalpy is more important than the temperature.

As to the rest of the questions - this isn't a hobby for me; however this reminds me of the Intelligent Design argument where Christians try to fill in the unexplained parts or parts they don't understand with the most fantastical idea imaginable.

 

[secdrl]

That doesn't make sense, regardless of being vaporized, concentrations will still have to be below the upper flammability limit.

As to people seen standing in the holes - they're were also people jumping to their deaths to escape the blaze. There's no reason to believe the impact hole was the hottest point. In fact every video shows huge billows of smoke and you can see the inferno in the adjacent exterior wall to the impact hole after the tower was hit. You can see the the adjacent side up in flames while the impact side didn't have nearly as much fire. Also enthalpy is more important than the temperature.

As to the rest of the questions - this isn't a hobby for me; however this reminds me of the Intelligent Design argument where Christians try to fill in the unexplained parts or parts they don't understand with the most fantastical idea imaginable.

I'm assuming that thousands of gallons of jet fuel spread by a 600mph crash caused some intense burning ALL over the buildings.

 

[troubador]

I'm assuming that thousands of gallons of jet fuel spread by a 600mph crash caused some intense burning ALL over the buildings.

Well if LAM is right and the majority the fuel ignited at once then...

90,000L of jet fuel at an enthalpy of about 35.06 MJ/L gives 3155400 MJ or 3155.4 GJ. One ton of TNT is 4.184 GJ. So that means if all of it ignited at once it would be equivalent to about 754 tons of TNT exploding. Lam claims the majority did so that's at least 377 tons of TNT. For comparison you can look up Operation Sailor Hat, a test the Navy did at 500 ton TNT equivalent, and it becomes obvious that the majority of jet fuel could not have possibly ignited all at once.

 

[LAM]

aircrafts are not fully loaded to maximum capacity with fuel unless the planned route is going to be close to the maximum range of the aircraft. and the 757/767 has several variations. the one in use at that time would have been the -200 with max fuel capacity of just under 11,275gal (77,121lbs) with a range of about 2700miles.

that document arbitrary used the maximum amount of fuel for the larger 767 aircraft which is incorrect @ 90,770L

aircraft are allotted fuel for taxi, take off and to reach cruising altitude, the majority of fuel is used here as the engines are working the hardest, once cruising altitude is reached they are throttled back and the total weight of the plane decreases as the trip progresses. fuel usage is about 20K/lbs and hour for the first 1/2 of the trip then drops to about half for the 757 with more fuel and a longer range obviously for the 767 and variant.

avg flight times from Logon to LA is 5.5-6hrs. the max fuel reserve is between 25k-40k/lbs depending on the type of aircraft.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/startup/pdf/historical/757f_perf.pdf

based on your information 43,490L (11,275gal) with maximum fuel on a 757-200 that would be 1524759.4MJ or 1524.7GJ which would reduce that to the maximum of 364 tons of TNT and then much less after compensating for the fuel that was burned in the fireball when it was vaporized upon impact.

and just to stir the post some more I will through this in there. since we know that an airplane did not hit the Pentagon and did not crash in PA, what other lies has the government told us? we know the the premise for the war was bogus and the only WMD that's Saddam ever had were the ones that we sold/gave to him in the 80's and Bin Laden denied being involved in 9-11 from jump.

what many don't know is that 3rd generation uranium weapons have been in use on the battlefield for quite some time. depleted uranium (DU) is used in a variety of warheads and is used in shaped charges. the symptoms of many first responders in NYC are the same as those in the middle east that have been exposed to uranium dust particles.

Under the radar: identifying third-generation uranium weapons
http://unidir.org/pdf/articles/pdf-art2759.pdf

and the source is below.
UNIDIR - Article

Depleted Uranium Contamination: A Crime against Humanity

 

[troubador]

based on your information 43,490L (11,275gal) with maximum fuel on a 757-200 that would be 1524759.4MJ or 1524.7GJ which would reduce that to the maximum of 364 tons of TNT and then much less after compensating for the fuel that was burned in the fireball when it was vaporized upon impact.

That works too. 364 tons of TNT is still a huge ass bomb which is what you'd have if "the majority the fuel ignited at once". Which clearly it did not.

 

[Swiper]

SEAL WHO ALLEGEDLY SHOT AND KILLED BIN LADEN REVEALS STUNNING NEW DETAILS ABOUT THE RAID ? AND YOU WON?T BELIEVE HOW HE SAYS THE GOV?T HAS TREATED HIM SINCE


Phil Bronstein spent more than a year researching a piece published Monday in Esquire on the life of the Navy SEAL who allegedly killed Osama bin Laden. He formed a friendship with the man, whom he refers to only as ?the Shooter? throughout the piece for safety reasons, learning new details about the famous raid and ? more shockingly ? the Shooter?s life post-retirement.
The Shooter isn?t exactly able to write on his r?sum? that he?s the man who killed Osama Bin Laden? details about the mission are strictly classified and he adheres to a ?quiet professional? code. The Shooter says he has no interest in making himself a public figure like the author of No Easy Day, who was also on the raid and was one of the men to shoot Bin Laden after the terrorist had been killed by the Shooter. So where is he now?
Apparently, in the same boat as many of America?s other veterans.

his is a man who recalls the Osama bin Laden raid not from images on a television, but from a first-person perspective. He related grisly new details in his first-ever interview, even sharing what he was thinking at the time:

[Bin Laden] looked confused. And way taller than I was expecting. He had a cap on and didn?t appear to be hit?
For me, it was a snapshot of a target ID, definitely him. Even in our kill houses where we train, there are targets with his face on them. This was repetition and muscle memory. That?s him, boom, done.

n that second, I shot him, two times in the forehead. Bap! Bap! The second time as he?s going down. He crumpled onto the floor in front of his bed and I hit him again, Bap! same place. That time I used my EOTech red-dot holo sight. He was dead. Not moving. His tongue was out. I watched him take his last breaths, just a reflex breath.
And I remember as I watched him breathe out the last part of air, I thought: Is this the best thing I?ve ever done, or the worst thing I?ve ever done? This is real and that?s him. Holy shit.
[...]
His forehead was gruesome. It was split open in the shape of a V. I could see his brains spilling out over his face. The American public doesn?t want to know what that looks like. [Emphasis added]

So where is he now? The Esquire article explains:

?No one who fights for this country overseas should ever have to fight for a job,? Barack Obama said last Veterans? Day, ?or a roof over their head, or the care that they have earned when they come home.?
But the Shooter will discover soon enough that when he leaves after sixteen years in the Navy, his body filled with scar tissue, arthritis, tendonitis, eye damage, and blown disks, here is what he gets from his employer and a grateful nation:
Nothing. No pension, no health care, and no protection for himself or his family.
Since Abbottabad, he has trained his children to hide in their bathtub at the first sign of a problem as the safest, most fortified place in their house. His wife is familiar enough with theshotgun on their armoire to use it. She knows to sit on the bed, the weapon?s butt braced against the wall, and precisely what angle to shoot out through the bedroom door, if necessary. A knife is also on the dresser should she need a backup.
Then there is the ?bolt? bag of clothes, food, and other provisions for the family meant to last them two weeks in hiding.
?Personally,? his wife told me recently, ?I feel more threatened by a potential retaliatory terror attack on our community than I did eight years ago,? when her husband joined ST6.
When the White House identified SEAL Team 6 as those responsible, camera crews swarmed into their Virginia Beach neighborhood, taking shots of the SEALs? homes. [Emphasis added]

The Shooter and his wife are actually separated, but still live in the same house to save money. The $60,000 a year he made with extra bonuses for different activities has dried up, and they haven?t yet found a way to replace it.
?We?re actually looking into changing my name,? she explained. ?Changing the kids? names, taking my husband?s name off the house, paying off our cars. Essentially deleting him from our lives, but for safety reasons. We still love each other.?
According to Bronstein, the only assistance The Shooter was offered was a witness-protection like program where the national hero would be ?driving a beer truck in Milwaukee.? The family would have to sever all connections to their former life.
A former SEAL and mentor to the Shooter noted: ?These guys have millions of dollars? worth of knowledge and training in their heads?All sorts of executive function skills. That shouldn?t go to waste.?
Retired Marine major general Mike Myatt added: ?It?s criminal to me that these guys walk out the door naked?They?re the greatest of their generation; they know how to get things done. If I were aFortune 500 company, I?d try to get my hands on any one of them.?

Bronstein says one conversation in particular exemplifies the abandonment:

?I left SEALs on Friday,? [the Shooter] said the next time I saw him. It was a little more than thirty-six months before the official retirement requirement of twenty years of service. ?My health care for me and my family stopped at midnight Friday night. I asked if there was some transition from my Tricare to Blue Cross Blue Shield. They said no. You?re out of the service, your coverage is over. Thanks for your sixteen years. Go [f--k] yourself.?
​

The Esquire article concludes with the Shooter?s perception of the movie Zero Dark Thirty, the author adding that a line from the film has been haunting him.
The tactics ?sucked,? the Shooter said, and ?the mission in the damn movie took way too long,? but other than that he said he was largely pleased.
But the real-life risks and ramifications were summed up by the actor playing the CIA station chief, who warned: ?Once you?re on their list, you never get off.?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/11/seal-who-allegedly-shot-and-killed-bin-laden-reveals-stunning-new-details-about-the-raid-and-you-wont-believe-how-he-says-the-govt-has-treated-him-since/


Click here to read the entire Esquire article.


​

​

 

[maniclion]

SEAL WHO ALLEGEDLY SHOT AND KILLED BIN LADEN REVEALS STUNNING NEW DETAILS ABOUT THE RAID ? AND YOU WON?T BELIEVE HOW HE SAYS THE GOV?T HAS TREATED HIM SINCE


Phil Bronstein spent more than a year researching a piece published Monday in Esquire on the life of the Navy SEAL who allegedly killed Osama bin Laden. He formed a friendship with the man, whom he refers to only as ?the Shooter? throughout the piece for safety reasons, learning new details about the famous raid and ? more shockingly ? the Shooter?s life post-retirement.
The Shooter isn?t exactly able to write on his r?sum? that he?s the man who killed Osama Bin Laden? details about the mission are strictly classified and he adheres to a ?quiet professional? code. The Shooter says he has no interest in making himself a public figure like the author of No Easy Day, who was also on the raid and was one of the men to shoot Bin Laden after the terrorist had been killed by the Shooter. So where is he now?
Apparently, in the same boat as many of America?s other veterans.

his is a man who recalls the Osama bin Laden raid not from images on a television, but from a first-person perspective. He related grisly new details in his first-ever interview, even sharing what he was thinking at the time:

[Bin Laden] looked confused. And way taller than I was expecting. He had a cap on and didn?t appear to be hit?
For me, it was a snapshot of a target ID, definitely him. Even in our kill houses where we train, there are targets with his face on them. This was repetition and muscle memory. That?s him, boom, done.

n that second, I shot him, two times in the forehead. Bap! Bap! The second time as he?s going down. He crumpled onto the floor in front of his bed and I hit him again, Bap! same place. That time I used my EOTech red-dot holo sight. He was dead. Not moving. His tongue was out. I watched him take his last breaths, just a reflex breath.
And I remember as I watched him breathe out the last part of air, I thought: Is this the best thing I?ve ever done, or the worst thing I?ve ever done? This is real and that?s him. Holy shit.
[...]
His forehead was gruesome. It was split open in the shape of a V. I could see his brains spilling out over his face. The American public doesn?t want to know what that looks like. [Emphasis added]

So where is he now? The Esquire article explains:

?No one who fights for this country overseas should ever have to fight for a job,? Barack Obama said last Veterans? Day, ?or a roof over their head, or the care that they have earned when they come home.?
But the Shooter will discover soon enough that when he leaves after sixteen years in the Navy, his body filled with scar tissue, arthritis, tendonitis, eye damage, and blown disks, here is what he gets from his employer and a grateful nation:
Nothing. No pension, no health care, and no protection for himself or his family.
Since Abbottabad, he has trained his children to hide in their bathtub at the first sign of a problem as the safest, most fortified place in their house. His wife is familiar enough with theshotgun on their armoire to use it. She knows to sit on the bed, the weapon?s butt braced against the wall, and precisely what angle to shoot out through the bedroom door, if necessary. A knife is also on the dresser should she need a backup.
Then there is the ?bolt? bag of clothes, food, and other provisions for the family meant to last them two weeks in hiding.
?Personally,? his wife told me recently, ?I feel more threatened by a potential retaliatory terror attack on our community than I did eight years ago,? when her husband joined ST6.
When the White House identified SEAL Team 6 as those responsible, camera crews swarmed into their Virginia Beach neighborhood, taking shots of the SEALs? homes. [Emphasis added]

The Shooter and his wife are actually separated, but still live in the same house to save money. The $60,000 a year he made with extra bonuses for different activities has dried up, and they haven?t yet found a way to replace it.
?We?re actually looking into changing my name,? she explained. ?Changing the kids? names, taking my husband?s name off the house, paying off our cars. Essentially deleting him from our lives, but for safety reasons. We still love each other.?
According to Bronstein, the only assistance The Shooter was offered was a witness-protection like program where the national hero would be ?driving a beer truck in Milwaukee.? The family would have to sever all connections to their former life.
A former SEAL and mentor to the Shooter noted: ?These guys have millions of dollars? worth of knowledge and training in their heads?All sorts of executive function skills. That shouldn?t go to waste.?
Retired Marine major general Mike Myatt added: ?It?s criminal to me that these guys walk out the door naked?They?re the greatest of their generation; they know how to get things done. If I were aFortune 500 company, I?d try to get my hands on any one of them.?

Bronstein says one conversation in particular exemplifies the abandonment:

?I left SEALs on Friday,? [the Shooter] said the next time I saw him. It was a little more than thirty-six months before the official retirement requirement of twenty years of service. ?My health care for me and my family stopped at midnight Friday night. I asked if there was some transition from my Tricare to Blue Cross Blue Shield. They said no. You?re out of the service, your coverage is over. Thanks for your sixteen years. Go [f--k] yourself.?
​

The Esquire article concludes with the Shooter?s perception of the movie Zero Dark Thirty, the author adding that a line from the film has been haunting him.
The tactics ?sucked,? the Shooter said, and ?the mission in the damn movie took way too long,? but other than that he said he was largely pleased.
But the real-life risks and ramifications were summed up by the actor playing the CIA station chief, who warned: ?Once you?re on their list, you never get off.?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/11/seal-who-allegedly-shot-and-killed-bin-laden-reveals-stunning-new-details-about-the-raid-and-you-wont-believe-how-he-says-the-govt-has-treated-him-since/


Click here to read the entire Esquire article.


​

​

Typical Navy BS, my ship waited an extra 2 weeks until we got to San Diego(our Home Port is Pearl Harbor) to Discharge me and gave me a bus ticket back to Texas. My XO at the time wanted me to re-enlist so bad because they were scrounging for good Radiomen with computer skills, when I told him no way he told me he would have me blacklisted from any good jobs in the little Town in Texas both of us were from, little did he know I had planned to stay in Hawaii, but there was no way I would tell him that with his attitude the way it was. If you don't put in a whole career as a lifer then you are less than nothing in the lifers eyes....not all of them, but a majority. Some of the lifers actually respect you and purely understand that you have to be deranged to stay in for 20 years, but that's another story that's neither here nor there....