Can I get any bigger?

[gustyrant]

All,
A question I've been pondering over, as I weight train for 1-2 hours daily (1 45 minute session at lunch, 1 1 hour session after work) for 5 days a week, is it worth it? Not to mention, the creatine and preworkout and gym costs.
I've been training for about 3 years. About 1 year, I've been taking it pretty seriously. The last 4 months, I've been really watching my diet. For a while (1-2 months) I was eating over 3000 calories per day (I regularly ate the 1500 smoothie king mass gainer) sometimes 3500 and barely gained a pound. I've cut back to around 2500 because I really started to gain some fat.

I've had some decent strength gains, especially in legs and arms (curling 90, leg pressing around 500, squatting around 225) but not much in the way of size, maybe about 10-20% strength increase across the board.

Right now, I'm 156, 5'9". I don't know what my body fat is but when I was 149, I had it measured at around 8%.

I've considered going to a sports nutritionalist/clinician so they can tell me 1) what my problem is, 2) whether my efforts are fruitless but I thought I'd pitch it to you guys.

All in all, I'd say over the course of my 3 years, I've MAYBE gained 15-20 lbs of muscle. I'm really not that much bigger (granted a TON stronger but not bigger).

My problem isn't testosterone. While my test isn't high (mid 800s for total and 115 for free), it's not so low that it would really hold me back.

I don't think it's diet. I eat pretty clean, 2-3 protien bars per day, plenty of fruit and veggies, about 1 lb of either beef or chickren right after working out.

I don't know whether it's all genetics. Before I was working out I was skinny but not rail skinny.

Here's a pic of me when I was 22, before I did anything but play video games all day. You can't see much but you can tell approx my body structure.

 

[Z499]

you can get bigger, and also check the nutrition facts on your protein bar. Alot of protein bars can actually be counter productive, damn near equivalent to eating a candy bar.

 

[the_predator]

The biggest mistake(including myself) everyone makes is diet. I believe it is called fit day.com or something(google diet programs or similar). Big eye opener! Most people are eating way to much(dieting) or not enough(bulking). 9 out of 10 people think they are eating right but they are not. Still don't believe me after doing the research? Hire a top notch nutritionist(make sure you check his background and his client base progress) and watch your gains start to show. I didn't believe it either till I had a very knowledgeable friend look into my stuff. Good luck brother.

 

[KILLEROFSAINTS]

156 pounds? Biggest you can get?

 

[hypo_glycemic]

I think eating more to start would be your best bet OP..

 

[gustyrant]

156 is admittedly small, which is why I'm puzzled.

 

[Standard Donkey]

i dont think u can get any bigger bro

 

[Z499]

The biggest mistake(including myself) everyone makes is diet. I believe it is called fit day.com or something(google diet programs or similar). Big eye opener! Most people are eating way to much(dieting) or not enough(bulking). 9 out of 10 people think they are eating right but they are not. Still don't believe me after doing the research? Hire a top notch nutritionist(make sure you check his background and his client base progress) and watch your gains start to show. I didn't believe it either till I had a very knowledgeable friend look into my stuff. Good luck brother.

i used to be on fitday.com, i loved it and it really let me see my fat, carb, and protein intake ratio in calories and i was shocked on how much fat was in my diet. because of that site, im now one of the few people you see looking at the nutrition facts in the store.

carbs 4 cal to 1 gram
protein 4 cal to 1 gram
fat 9 cal to 1 gram

 

[CaptainNapalm]

Training twice daily an hour each session, five days a week might be counterproductive in your case. Have you tried increasing your rest and changing workouts? Reading your post I sense rest neglect.

 

[SFW]

Eat a loaf of white bread with a jar of peanut butter before bed, everyday. You'll gain weight.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

All,
A question I've been pondering over, as I weight train for 1-2 hours daily (1 45 minute session at lunch, 1 1 hour session after work) for 5 days a week, is it worth it?

Overtraining

As CaptainNapalm states, your training program is counterproductive. Your program is taking more than it giving back. So, no it is not worth it.

Work + Rest = Success

Recovery and muscle growth occurs during rest. You're not allowing your body to recover.

Not to mention, the creatine and preworkout and gym costs.
I've been training for about 3 years. About 1 year, I've been taking it pretty seriously. The last 4 months, I've been really watching my diet. For a while (1-2 months) I was eating over 3000 calories per day (I regularly ate the 1500 smoothie king mass gainer) sometimes 3500 and barely gained a pound. I've cut back to around 2500 because I really started to gain some fat.

I've had some decent strength gains, especially in legs and arms (curling 90, leg pressing around 500, squatting around 225) but not much in the way of size, maybe about 10-20% strength increase across the board.

Right now, I'm 156, 5'9". I don't know what my body fat is but when I was 149, I had it measured at around 8%

You diet appears to be ok.

Fat Phobic

You're a bit overly concerned with getting fat. You may be 8%, you're definitely thin.

When gaining weight, usually some fat gain occurs. How much fat you gain is dependent on you diet (which looks good) and your training program (which is poorly written).

Doing The Math

Based on what you stated, let break it down.

156 lbs @ 8% Body Fat =

Body Fat: 12.48 lb of (156 X 8%)

Fat Free Mass: 143.52 lbs (156 - 12.48) This is muscle mass.

Gaining Weight

Gaining weight means you end up gaining some body fat. From what I've read and experienced, about 20% of the weight you gain is body fat. However, it is not as bad as it appears.

Example: 20 lb Weight Gain

Let's say you increase your body weight 20 lbs.

Breakdown

Body Fat Increase: 4 lbs (20 lbs X 20%)

Fat Free Mass: 16 lbs (20 lb - 4 lbs) This is a gain in muscle mass.

New Body Weight

176 lbs (156 lbs + 20 lbs)

Body Fat: 16.46 lbs (12.48 lbs + 4 lbs)

Fat Free Mass: 159.52 lbs (176 lbs - 16.46 lbs)

Body Fat Percentage: 9.36% (176 lbs divided into 16.46 lbs)

The Trade

In this example, you end up gaining 16 lbs of muscle an 4 lbs of body fat. Your Body Fat Percentage goes up 1.36%!

This is a GREAT trade!

"Penny Wise and Pound Foolish"

Being overly concerned about your body fat percentage, at some point, it going to restrict you ability to increase muscle mass/body weight.

Ectomorph

You are an Ectomorph. That means you have a small frame, low fat, and have a hard time adding muscle/body weight.

An extomorph's training is different from a mesomorph (medium frame) and endomorph (large frame) individual.

I am an ectomorph. I went through the same thing.

Training Program

As an Ectomorph, less is better. You need short intense training sessions.

You are not going to do well with long, multiple daily sessions, as the one you have. Again as Capt. stated, you program is counter productive.

I've considered going to a sports nutritionalist/clinician so they can tell me 1) what my problem is, 2) whether my efforts are fruitless but I thought I'd pitch it to you guys.

All in all, I'd say over the course of my 3 years, I've MAYBE gained 15-20 lbs of muscle. I'm really not that much bigger (granted a TON stronger but not bigger).

My problem isn't testosterone. While my test isn't high (mid 800s for total and 115 for free), it's not so low that it would really hold me back.

I don't think it's diet. I eat pretty clean, 2-3 protien bars per day, plenty of fruit and veggies, about 1 lb of either beef or chickren right after working out.

15-20 lb Gain

That a great gain. You've done well.

You can gain more. It's going to take work, a good diet plan (which it looks like you have) and a better written training program...with more rest included in your program.

Post Workout

Eating anything after your workout helps with recovery. However, there are some more effective choices.

Research shows that after a training session, a quickly digested protein combined with a high glycemic index (simple sugar) elicits the best results for increasing muscle mass and recovery.

Here are a couple of choices.

1) Whey/Maltodextrin-Dextors (Glucose) Drink

2) Chocolate Milk (Inexpensive, quick, easy)

Kenny Croxdale

 

[KILLEROFSAINTS]

buy ellington darden books


i like hit for skinny dudes


train harder and less

if you can do it all day you are doing it wrong son

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

buy ellington darden books


i like hit for skinny dudes


train harder and less

if you can do it all day you are doing it wrong son

Darden

Darden is NOT the guy to listen to.

Super Slow Protocol

Dardan is a proponent of High Intensity Training via Super Slow Protocol.

1) One Set To Failure

Training to failure needs to be performed infrequently. Training to failure on ever workout fries you Central Nervous System, overtraining.

2) 15 Second Repetitions

Each set consist of 4-6 repetitions. Each repetition last 15 seconds. Thus, a set of 4 reps will take you 60 seconds.

While there is some value in the amount of "Time Under Tension", there are more effective method.

Multiple set will elicit a better training effect.

Hypertrophy Training--"The Pump"

"The Pump" bodybuilders use creates an anabolic environment for muscle growth.

"The Pump" is produced with repetition of 8 plus, with short rest periods taken between sets. Rest periods between sets are 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

The focus of each set is to pump more blood into the muscles.

Darden's High Intensity Super Slow Protocol Training will only take you part of the way there.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Bowden]

I thought this was a troll when I first read it.

However if you are serious...

You are over training and your diet sucks.
Anyone that weight trains for up to 2 hours a day for 5 days a week is over training.
Especially if they are natural.
2-3 protein bars a day is not eating clean.
You are not getting enough recovery time.
You grow outside of the gym, not in it.

If you do not understand these basic principles, then you have no clue about what you are doing.
You need to go back to ground zero, study nutrition, diet.
You need to go to a no more than 4 days a week workouts lasting no more than 45 minutes a session consisting of only basic heavy compound moves for at least a year and build some strength and size.

"A question I've been pondering over, as I weight train for 1-2 hours daily (1 45 minute session at lunch, 1 1 hour session after work) for 5 days a week
I don't think it's diet. I eat pretty clean, 2-3 protien bars per day, plenty of fruit and veggies, about 1 lb of either beef or chickren right after working out."

 

[bjg]

1- you need to follow a proper workout routine, you are probably doing more than necessary and wasting time.
2- lifting technique and intensity must be also watched
3- eat more natural food not protein bars and protein drinks and creatine
4- yes you can get bigger, 3 years of training is just the beginning, some people genetically take longer than others to gain muscle mass but i don't know if it is your case or not.

 

[Merkaba]

I agree with the obvious! Why workout twice a day? One good hour will be just fine. You will probably recover better which will equal better future workouts and strength, which usually equates to more muscle at your stage of the game. Rest and recovery, as others have pointed at. You make the gains at home, not in the gym.

 

[Powermaster]

Overtraining

As CaptainNapalm states, your training program is counterproductive. Your program is taking more than it giving back. So, no it is not worth it.

Work + Rest = Success

Recovery and muscle growth occurs during rest. You're not allowing your body to recover.



You diet appears to be ok.

Fat Phobic

You're a bit overly concerned with getting fat. You may be 8%, you're definitely thin.

When gaining weight, usually some fat gain occurs. How much fat you gain is dependent on you diet (which looks good) and your training program (which is poorly written).

Doing The Math

Based on what you stated, let break it down.

156 lbs @ 8% Body Fat =

Body Fat: 12.48 lb of (156 X 8%)

Fat Free Mass: 143.52 lbs (156 - 12.48) This is muscle mass.

Gaining Weight

Gaining weight means you end up gaining some body fat. From what I've read and experienced, about 20% of the weight you gain is body fat. However, it is not as bad as it appears.

Example: 20 lb Weight Gain

Let's say you increase your body weight 20 lbs.

Breakdown

Body Fat Increase: 4 lbs (20 lbs X 20%)

Fat Free Mass: 16 lbs (20 lb - 4 lbs) This is a gain in muscle mass.

New Body Weight

176 lbs (156 lbs + 20 lbs)

Body Fat: 16.46 lbs (12.48 lbs + 4 lbs)

Fat Free Mass: 159.52 lbs (176 lbs - 16.46 lbs)

Body Fat Percentage: 9.36% (176 lbs divided into 16.46 lbs)

The Trade

In this example, you end up gaining 16 lbs of muscle an 4 lbs of body fat. Your Body Fat Percentage goes up 1.36%!

This is a GREAT trade!

"Penny Wise and Pound Foolish"

Being overly concerned about your body fat percentage, at some point, it going to restrict you ability to increase muscle mass/body weight.

Ectomorph

You are an Ectomorph. That means you have a small frame, low fat, and have a hard time adding muscle/body weight.

An extomorph's training is different from a mesomorph (medium frame) and endomorph (large frame) individual.

I am an ectomorph. I went through the same thing.

Training Program

As an Ectomorph, less is better. You need short intense training sessions.

You are not going to do well with long, multiple daily sessions, as the one you have. Again as Capt. stated, you program is counter productive.





15-20 lb Gain

That a great gain. You've done well.

You can gain more. It's going to take work, a good diet plan (which it looks like you have) and a better written training program...with more rest included in your program.

Post Workout

Eating anything after your workout helps with recovery. However, there are some more effective choices.

Research shows that after a training session, a quickly digested protein combined with a high glycemic index (simple sugar) elicits the best results for increasing muscle mass and recovery.

Here are a couple of choices.

1) Whey/Maltodextrin-Dextors (Glucose) Drink

2) Chocolate Milk (Inexpensive, quick, easy)

Kenny Croxdale

This advice is right on and exactly what I do. I like the part about post workout nutrition: Whey/Maltodextrin-Dextors (Glucose) Drink
I add some vit C and E in the above mix to aid in recovery as well.

 

[Cork]

Great posts, Croxdale.

To the OP, please never ask yourself that question again. To question your own limits is to admit defeat. The potential of the human body is pretty amazing.

 

[DiGiTaL]

I saw this thread title and was hoping the guy would be a whopping 300lbs muscle machine...but no a skinny little boy who is wondering if he can get bigger..

 

[gustyrant]

Thanks to all of you who provided feedback, espcially Croxdale; I will live by your advice and let everyone know the results.
@Digital--none of us are perfect and all have to fight against SOME genetic predisposition. Even if you were a 300 lb muscle machine, maybe you're balding or are pitted with pimples (both potential side effects of high testosterone), maybe your body won't know what to do with 3 decades of muscle growth and you have man boobs at 50. The main purpose of a forum is to seek advice on a problem and to learn.

 

[Intense]

I dont know what the fuck croxdale said, but I repped him for the effort he put into typing all that shit.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I dont know what the fuck croxdale said, but I repped him for the effort he put into typing all that shit.

Intense,

Evidetnly, I didn't do a very good job of explaining it so that it made sense to you.

What in particular didn't you understand? Perhaps, I can break it down better for you.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[dirtwarrior]

you may be overtraining
take 2 weeks off