>1,500kcal down - no weight loss

[Witchblade]

First of, I'll start by saying I won't be able to post macros or total calories, because that's not the system I use.

Over 2 weeks ago I started decreasing calories, cutting. I've measured waist circumference and weight every morning. When bulking, my waist circumference fluctuated between 81-83cm (32-33') and my weight fluctuated between 80-81kg (175-177 pounds). Body fat percentage is, I guess, 13%. I've got a vague six-pack relaxed and almost full when flexed.

Since then, I've begun to take ~100kcal from every meal every 5 days, taking approximately 500kcal from my daily consumption. I've done this 3 times now and tomorrow will/would be the 4th time.

The results? Waist circumference and weight are ludicrously constant at 80 cm and kg respectively and have been so for about a week.

Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrott. I was gaining weight very slowly on my bulking diet. I'm down 1,500kcal now and I practially haven't lost any fat (maybe some water weight). However, strength is still increasing. I've got a long vacation at the moment, so I have almost zero stress and daily physical activities are at a minimum. Still, I wasn't gaining weight 1,500kcal up and I'm not losing any at the moment.

I'm weight training 4 times a week for an hour (upper/lower split). Little to no cardio (10min bike ride to the gym).

I'm starting to think I've got some sort of thyroid issue. What should I do? Go lower, refeed, add 20min daily cardio, eat my arm?

 

[Built]

I know that's not the system you have been using, but this system is now failing you.

Starting tomorrow, weigh and fitday your food. Let's see what - and specifically, how many calories - you are eating. If in fact your calories are this far below what you have been eating, we look at the next steps.

I'll mention that if you went from bulking to 1500 less than bulking, you may simply now be at maintenance.

 

[Witchblade]

Food log

Diet – Bulking (June 2008; 81kg)
Meal 1
big cup: handful berries, flax seed, yoghurt, oat meal
350g no-fat cottage cheese
1 multi-vitamin/mineral

Meal 2
3 egg whites, 3 whole eggs, handful 30+ cheese, spices, 2 tomatoes
1 peanut butter sandwich

[dinner]

Meal 3
200g (lean) meat
6g fish oil
1 piece of fruit
handful of mixed nuts

Before bed
350g no fat cottage cheese, flax seed
2 tablespoons olive oil
6g fish oil

Pre-workout
25g fast digesting carbs (Dutch food thing made up of sugar and wheat)
25g whey

Post-workout
25g dextrose
25g whey
5g creatine monohydrate

Shake (non-training days)
1 scoop whey + little skimmed milk + yoghurt
double peanut butter sandwich
1 piece of fruit

NOTE: Handful of vegetables at every meal is NOT included in the list.

Modifications/current diet: workout meals are the same, but almost all other food is cut out. Protein is unchanged and I still eat 1 tablespoon of olive oil and flax seed and the 12g fish oil and the vegetables. Basically, I'm almost down to a PSMF...

 

[Witchblade]

Damn you're quick. Well, above is the food log. That's the system. I've gradually cut out all the foods. I just don't calculate the macros in Fitday. The kcal are all guesstimations.

Is it really possible I was bulking at 1,500kcal above maintenance and hardly gaining weight? How am I ever going to consume below maintenance then?

 

[Built]

FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal

That's all I can suggest to you.

 

[juggernaut]

I'd try carb cycling. I had the worst time bulking when I switched to carb cycling, everything kind of fell together.

 

[juggernaut]

and perhps drop the dex in your pwo and use oats. Just a suggestion.

 

[NeilPearson]

Damn you're quick. Well, above is the food log. That's the system. I've gradually cut out all the foods. I just don't calculate the macros in Fitday. The kcal are all guesstimations.

Is it really possible I was bulking at 1,500kcal above maintenance and hardly gaining weight? How am I ever going to consume below maintenance then?

One pound is roughly equivalent to 3500 calories so yeah if you were hardly gaining weight at 1500 calories above maintenance, then that makes sense. It would probably take a little over two weeks to gain a pound.

 

[fufu]

are you measuring other parts of your body besides your waist? You may be losing fat in other areas faster quicker.

 

[juggernaut]

good point fu. I have this nagging little last area of lower ab fat that stays with me and plays tricks on my mind when I diet for a contest. It also plays with my psyche when trying to bulk-it's the first area that hits with a little gain of good old blubber.

 

[Witchblade]

I'm now basically down to a PSMF and I've got a job so NEPA is increased a bit too for the weekdays.

I really don't understand the situation at the moment. Waist and weight are down a bit, but just ~2 pounds total. I've lost no water and, seemingly, no glycogen. Strength is still going up. In fact it's going up as fast, if not faster, than during my average bulk.

Here's the best part, everyone says I look leaner. I've tried some poses I use to judge body fat percentage and I really do look leaner. For example, the skin between the shoulder/chest and the biceps is completely stretched now even during flexion and I can see 3 heads in my quads. Good suggestion, fufu and juggernaut. I think my lower ab fat is the most stubborn (yay...).

I hope this means I'm actually gaining some muscle, somehow. I guess it's possible, because I really have zero stress in my life now and, in spite of my insomnia, I get to sleep enough.

Note to self: put your bulk and current food log in Fitday to get exact calorie numbers. I'll... I should... I might post it tomorrow.

I'm also thinking about carb cycling, as juggernaut mentioned, specifically in the form of a refeed (in a few days or a week). Pre- and post workout are the only times I use carbs at the moment and I don't think I'll ever cut those out. I'm a strong believer in proper nutrition during your workout and before bed.

Anyway, I'll try to update tomorrow. Thanks for the help so far!

 

[Built]

Are you DOING PSMF, Witchblade? It has a very specific protocol for lean dieters (12 days on, 2 day refeed, only two short weight-training sessions a week, minimal cardio).

How long did the 2 lbs take you to lose?

 

[fufu]

good point fu. I have this nagging little last area of lower ab fat that stays with me and plays tricks on my mind when I diet for a contest. It also plays with my psyche when trying to bulk-it's the first area that hits with a little gain of good old blubber.

same here, I have visible veins and striations in my traps, back, shoulder and quads but I am still working to get this lower belly fat off.

 

[Witchblade]

Are you DOING PSMF, Witchblade? It has a very specific protocol for lean dieters (12 days on, 2 day refeed, only two short weight-training sessions a week, minimal cardio).

No, I'm not. I'm just using it as a reference for what I'm eating. Meaning, very little but protein and vegetables.

How long did the 2 lbs take you to lose?

Took me 10 days to lose those 1-2 pounds. That's not bad, I guess, but it's the first real weight loss (after the initial stop of weight/waist fluctuations during my bulk).

I'm off now, and I will return with fitday stats tonight. (16:00h ATM, Holland)

 

[juggernaut]

1-2 in ten days? That's fine! Anything else couldve been muscle tissue. Be careful with that.

 

[Witchblade]

According to Fitday, on non training days I'm now consuming 1,500kcal excluding 6 handfuls of cucumber, tomatoes, broccoli, paprika or berries. On training days it's closer to 2,100kcal. Grams of protein is 200 and 230 respectively. I'm really only eating protein + vegetables + 10g fish oil at the moment.

When bulking, caloric intake varied a little more than now: 3,000 - 3,500kcal.

In short, my guesses were fairly accurate.

I've got less than 3 weeks before August 9th, which is my deadline and the time I go on vacation to France for 2 weeks. I hope I'll be able to shed another 6 pounds before then. In retrospect, I needed more time. This was supposed to be an exercise in getting as lean as possible. I wanted to see how far I could go.

Current plan: finish this week and refeed on Monday. I got a lot of stuff to do that day and I can't fuck it up so Monday would be a good day for a refeed. I have no idea if I should go with a caloric maintenance refeed for 2-3 days or 1 day of eating lots and lots of fast absorbing carbs. Could someone point out when to use which refeed?

 

[jaytc2003]

personally I would add 3 cardio sessions to help lose what you want to loose

 

[juggernaut]

Good point Jay. I do agree that with the addition of some HIIT training, done 2x a week to start, he might fare a bit better with nutrient partitioning and spare some muscle tissue because of the style of cardio.

 

[Witchblade]

Yes, cardio seems to be the only way to get myself further into a caloric deficit. Damnit, I hate cardio.

 

[juggernaut]

yeah-nothing like emulating a hamster on the wheel...HIIT is better though, gives you something to do.

 

[jaytc2003]

ive gotta start hitting cardio again myself, I have added over 1 stone recently (suffered shin splints and wife just gave birth so diet and exercise went out the window!!)

 

[Lost Grizzly]

If you hate cardio but need more try Guerill Cardio it is only 12 mins per session.

http://www.cs.unm.edu/~wneumann/files/guerilla_cardio.pdf