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1-ad,4-ad Or 1-test What Stacks Are Best
- Thread starter Molehonea
- Start date
I agree...some do, but some don't as well. I'd rather go with a product like VPXs EQ in combination with 1-Test...or similar product with similar ingredient. I have witnessed that combo get really awesome results.
I think I have seen the MOST variation in results with the use of 4-AD than any other prohormone.
No, you don't have to do both. 1-Test and 1-AD work very nicely on their own. I just mentioned adding EQ if you were planning to stack two PHs together. Obviously, that would increase results, but it will also increase the price and any possible side effects (although those are usually few and far between).
VPX 1-test and EQ gets two thumbs up from me. The lean stack should be available from 1-fast. If not 1-test transdermal from 1 fast or BDC along with 1,4 ad in capsule form. It has a high oral bioavailabilty so it is fine in capsule.
IMO, this would be a very good stack for leaning out. I am currently running a similar stack, except the 1, 4 is also transdermal. I don't think with 1, 4 you would lose any efficacy to go oral however, as you certainly would with other prohormones.
(Note: Edited this post because I am not trying to get into a silly pissing contest, just stating the facts, and where appropriate, opinion.)
Last edited:
There are a few members on here that will "assure" you that LEAN STACK is better than VPX, however, that is not true. I am not saying either one is better because both products have done quite nicely for most that have used them. I HAVE personally used VPX prohormones and find them to be awesome...I have not used Lean Stack, so I have no experience with it other than feedback from my industry contacts and fellow lifters.
My personal recommendation is the VPX stack of either 1-Test/EQ or their Syngex-1 product. However, the only way to know for sure is to do a cycle of each product line.
Real World Use
In addition to these specific studies, real world use of TU for hypogonadism provides some very telling data. Undecanoate requires 120-240mg/day for satisfactory replacement (36-39), which is about 5-10mg, delievered, per day. Taking the middle numbers of both, we get 4% bioavailability. It should also be noted (and this is obvious from the above numbers, which give a range of 2-8%), that the efficacy of TU has been shown to vary greatly in the real world as well as clinical settings.
So, as you can see, though we do get some improvement compared to the free steroid, it is very far from spectacular. Given 15% delivery for the base, and assuming the androgen is dissolved in oil and the consumer takes the product with a very fatty meal, we end up at around 18-20%, (but individuals would proabably vary from just 15% to as high as 25%) -- and if not, we don't go much beyond the 15% of the free steroid.
So, now that we have looked at the technology, let us turn to the individual products:
1-Test Ethylcarbonate Ester (Mag-10)
There is no research on this ester improving oral bioavailability and there is no Log P data. Patrick Arnold has tested it and found it to be extremely insoluble in oil, which if true, would indicate that the afore mentioned lymphatic absorption would not occur. They claim that it gets close to 100% absorption, but offer no supporting evidence whatsoever, and it goes completely against all scientific data in existence, and there is an enormous body of literature on the subject, thus terms such as "full of shit", "fraudulent claims", and "blatantly lying" come to mind, but those are ugly words, so I shall not speak them. This should get the same 15% bioavailability as the free base.
If that were not enough, Mag-10 contains only 4.2 grams of 4-AD and 1-Test, combined and counting the weight of the ester -- and the 4-AD is listed first, so it is the major compound. They are clearly hiding the amount of 1-test for a reason, and it isn't because it is some magical number that needs to be kept secret from competitors. Usinmg the 3.5 to 1 ratio in ONE+, that comes out to a mere 950 mg of 1-test and 3.25 grams of 4-AD. If we are generous and assume that it contains a 2 to 1 ratio, we get 1.4 grams of 1-test and 2.8 grams of 4-AD. If the good folks at Biotest want to divulge the actual numbers, we will be more than happy to amend this article. Oh yeah, and it carries a massive $99.99 price tag for a 2 week supply. discount $68.95
1-Test THP Ether Capsules (Sauce, T-100).
As we have shown, lymphatic absporptin with the THP ethers is very questionable, and it requires that the steroid be dissolved in oil and taken with a very fatty meal more maximal effect. The ether would increase lipophilicity to some extent over the base, so it should perform marginally better, in that it would tend to be solubized in the intestine more quickly. We will say 15-18%, depending on if it is taken with a fatty meal or not.
Sauce (Syntrax) contains 4.5 grams of 1-test per bottle and retails for $69.95 and discounts for $43.95
T-100 (S.A.N.) contains 4.7 grams of 1-test per bottle and retails for $79.95 and discounts for $49.99
1-Test THP Ethergels (1-T)
Again, the data suggests that lymphatic absorption is very questionabel. However, the early real world feedback certainly seems to show the ethergels to be superior to the base and ethers without oil -- again, this could be explained by quicker micellation in the small intestine. Let us estimate the ethergels at 18-20%, depending on if it is taken with a meal. And, with a bit more feedback, and/or a viable theory on an alternate mechanism of action for the ether, we could go as high as 25%
1-T (Molecular Nutrition) contain 1.8 grams of 1-test and retails for $64.99 and discounts for $39.99
While designing a better delivery system is pretty exciting to a scientist, for the consumer, it all comes down to cost effectiveness, so let's see how the products stack up. We will use a relative scale based on the amount of product delivered per unit price. We will use suggested retail -- a little math will allow you to convert the numbers based on what you actually pay for the product. We will set the value for the 1-test base (One-T) at 100 -- thus, a product that scores 150 gives you 50% more for your money. Because Mag-10 and ONE+ also contain 4-AD, we will set ONE+'s score equal to ONE and determine Mag-10 based on ONE+ (and we will give 2 scores for it based on our two assumtpions of amount of actives)
Products
Score
ONE (Avant Labs)
205
ONE+ (Avant Labs)
205
Sauce (Syntrax)
166
T-100 (S.A.N.)
152
One-T (Gaspari Nutrition)
100
1-T (Molecular Nutrition)
97
Mag-10 (Biotest)
24-48
Now, I may be wrong here as I`ve not used VPX but I believe
one bottle has only 1000mg of 1test in it.......
http://www.avantlabs.com/main.php
In addition to these specific studies, real world use of TU for hypogonadism provides some very telling data. Undecanoate requires 120-240mg/day for satisfactory replacement (36-39), which is about 5-10mg, delievered, per day. Taking the middle numbers of both, we get 4% bioavailability. It should also be noted (and this is obvious from the above numbers, which give a range of 2-8%), that the efficacy of TU has been shown to vary greatly in the real world as well as clinical settings.
So, as you can see, though we do get some improvement compared to the free steroid, it is very far from spectacular. Given 15% delivery for the base, and assuming the androgen is dissolved in oil and the consumer takes the product with a very fatty meal, we end up at around 18-20%, (but individuals would proabably vary from just 15% to as high as 25%) -- and if not, we don't go much beyond the 15% of the free steroid.
So, now that we have looked at the technology, let us turn to the individual products:
1-Test Ethylcarbonate Ester (Mag-10)
There is no research on this ester improving oral bioavailability and there is no Log P data. Patrick Arnold has tested it and found it to be extremely insoluble in oil, which if true, would indicate that the afore mentioned lymphatic absorption would not occur. They claim that it gets close to 100% absorption, but offer no supporting evidence whatsoever, and it goes completely against all scientific data in existence, and there is an enormous body of literature on the subject, thus terms such as "full of shit", "fraudulent claims", and "blatantly lying" come to mind, but those are ugly words, so I shall not speak them. This should get the same 15% bioavailability as the free base.
If that were not enough, Mag-10 contains only 4.2 grams of 4-AD and 1-Test, combined and counting the weight of the ester -- and the 4-AD is listed first, so it is the major compound. They are clearly hiding the amount of 1-test for a reason, and it isn't because it is some magical number that needs to be kept secret from competitors. Usinmg the 3.5 to 1 ratio in ONE+, that comes out to a mere 950 mg of 1-test and 3.25 grams of 4-AD. If we are generous and assume that it contains a 2 to 1 ratio, we get 1.4 grams of 1-test and 2.8 grams of 4-AD. If the good folks at Biotest want to divulge the actual numbers, we will be more than happy to amend this article. Oh yeah, and it carries a massive $99.99 price tag for a 2 week supply. discount $68.95
1-Test THP Ether Capsules (Sauce, T-100).
As we have shown, lymphatic absporptin with the THP ethers is very questionable, and it requires that the steroid be dissolved in oil and taken with a very fatty meal more maximal effect. The ether would increase lipophilicity to some extent over the base, so it should perform marginally better, in that it would tend to be solubized in the intestine more quickly. We will say 15-18%, depending on if it is taken with a fatty meal or not.
Sauce (Syntrax) contains 4.5 grams of 1-test per bottle and retails for $69.95 and discounts for $43.95
T-100 (S.A.N.) contains 4.7 grams of 1-test per bottle and retails for $79.95 and discounts for $49.99
1-Test THP Ethergels (1-T)
Again, the data suggests that lymphatic absorption is very questionabel. However, the early real world feedback certainly seems to show the ethergels to be superior to the base and ethers without oil -- again, this could be explained by quicker micellation in the small intestine. Let us estimate the ethergels at 18-20%, depending on if it is taken with a meal. And, with a bit more feedback, and/or a viable theory on an alternate mechanism of action for the ether, we could go as high as 25%
1-T (Molecular Nutrition) contain 1.8 grams of 1-test and retails for $64.99 and discounts for $39.99
While designing a better delivery system is pretty exciting to a scientist, for the consumer, it all comes down to cost effectiveness, so let's see how the products stack up. We will use a relative scale based on the amount of product delivered per unit price. We will use suggested retail -- a little math will allow you to convert the numbers based on what you actually pay for the product. We will set the value for the 1-test base (One-T) at 100 -- thus, a product that scores 150 gives you 50% more for your money. Because Mag-10 and ONE+ also contain 4-AD, we will set ONE+'s score equal to ONE and determine Mag-10 based on ONE+ (and we will give 2 scores for it based on our two assumtpions of amount of actives)
Products
Score
ONE (Avant Labs)
205
ONE+ (Avant Labs)
205
Sauce (Syntrax)
166
T-100 (S.A.N.)
152
One-T (Gaspari Nutrition)
100
1-T (Molecular Nutrition)
97
Mag-10 (Biotest)
24-48
Now, I may be wrong here as I`ve not used VPX but I believe
one bottle has only 1000mg of 1test in it.......
http://www.avantlabs.com/main.php
You kuzman! What I like better than those "real world" studies you wrote about is the "real world" results that have been reported...
I have heard most of the best feedback (and I am privy to tons) from VPX, Avant, and Biotest. In cap form I have heard great things about SAN, good things about Molecular, and only decent about Syntrax.
By the way...VPX is coming out with a new "cypionate" version of 1-Test and 4-AD thats going to blow the roof off!
I have heard most of the best feedback (and I am privy to tons) from VPX, Avant, and Biotest. In cap form I have heard great things about SAN, good things about Molecular, and only decent about Syntrax.
By the way...VPX is coming out with a new "cypionate" version of 1-Test and 4-AD thats going to blow the roof off!
Don`t wanna steel your thunder there, but 1fast has had both now for awhile
http://www.1fast400.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=18&products_id=570
http://www.1fast400.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=18&products_id=508
Unless in my sleep depraved state I`ve missed something, it means you get 6 times MORE 1T for LESS money than with VPX.........
Originally posted by kuso
Don`t wanna steel your thunder there, but 1fast has had both now for awhile
http://www.1fast400.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=18&products_id=570
http://www.1fast400.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=18&products_id=508
I know about their stuff. The VPX version will be better. Nuff said.
Because you have tried both yes?
This is classic stuff.
And as to your comments about using VPX PHs....you have posted MANY MANY times that you do not and cannot use PHs because of the shows you compete in.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't EQ relatively new?
Lastly, as you have made clear in another thread, you have or soon may have an affiliation with VPX.
Wasn't it also you who cast aside the opinions of well established scientists like Pat Arnold, Bill Llewellyn and Par Deus on coming off a cycle of PHs simply because they are "in the industry." You discarded their opinions on this topic for that reason even to the extent they were not recommending their own products or indeed not recommending "supplements" at all but rather manipulation in training and diet. So wouldn't your own opinion now be equally suspect?
For the record, while I DO have an affiliation with Avant, Avant no longer makes PHs as they were pulled from the market. So anything still being sold is because a retailer still has stock. And so, any purchases (whether I do or do not recommend them) do not go to Avant's bottom line, as these products will never be made again.
For the record, I do not have such an afffiliation with Mike (1fast400) though he is a friend. His products are top notch, by any anecdotal account, and I use them regularly.
P.S. I have also used VPX's 1Test product, and do have a basis to compare.
P.P.S. Putting aside effectiveness of products, any consumer would do well not only to compare product X against product Y but to compare the AMOUNT of active ingredient you get for the purchase, as Kuso pointed out above.
P.P.P.S. This is truly getting quite silly.
The cyp powders are for injecting purposes! Right? Is VPX going to make one for injectables also?? If not how can this be the same product?
I would choose 1Test and 1, 4 for cutting and 1Test and 4-diol for bulking.
GoPro (a VPX affiliate, or soon to be) is saying you should use VPX.
Everyone else is saying there are better options for your money. I am as biased at GP, except Avant's is no longer making these products.
GoPro (a VPX affiliate, or soon to be) is saying you should use VPX.
Everyone else is saying there are better options for your money. I am as biased at GP, except Avant's is no longer making these products.
