10 years and I can't grow anymore.

[Mike Tuvre USA]

I've tried everything except gear. I think I've maxed out, genetically. I change my workout and eat more cals/protein and just get a little fatter. I lose the weight and I am pretty close to where I was a few years ago regarding muscle size. My lifts go up when I gain weight from eating. My lifts go right back down after cutting. After 10 years, I started at a skinny 145 and I've been as high as 230 (very puffy/too fat).

At 6'2" 190 (cut), I think this is it guys. Honestly, what do you experienced guys think?

 

[CowPimp]

Somehow I doubt that is your genetic potential. I also doubt you've tried "everything."

 

[P-funk]

what does your traing program look like?

 

[Mike Tuvre USA]

I'm taking this week off to re think everything. I haved tried variations of many of the routines on here (mostly high intesity/low vlume. Higher reps do nothing for me. I've found time off is better than high reps). Granted, if I eat more I lift more and get bigger, but visually I look worse. I will never get fat again to gain muscle. Maybe this is why I can't get bigger. If so, I accept that. Also, when I push myself to lift more weight, I feel I am on the threshold of injury. I know you guys know this feeling. My lifts went way up over the years without this kind of feeling in the body (joints/etc). I believe the main moderator of this site mentioned something about his body not being able to take much more, so he stopped competing? Just maintain/stay lean/in shape. I've heard there comes a point when that is all some people can do. Remember. I am 6'2" and started at 145. That is my natural structure.

 

[CowPimp]

I'm still willing to bet that you can do more than that, and without gaining excessive amounts of fat. I don't think you have to bulk like a maniac to gain muscle. A little bit of extra fat is usually something that comes along with it, but you can certainly stay pretty lean while doing so.

With regards to Rob, he has had some serious issues with herniated discs in his lumbar spine I believe. That is why he's taking it easy at this point.

 

[Mike Tuvre USA]

ok, I did some research on natural pros. I am within 20-30 lbs (cut) of a few of them (based on their stats) who are near my height, and I am in no way gifted. If I was gifted, maybe I could get there. We all can't get as big as the pros (cut).

 

[P-funk]

natural pro's aren't big at all.....unless you are talking about the taller guys, most of them are pretty light. The guys in the 165-185lbs range do the best in natural BBing.

 

[mike456]

Post your exact workout program, it probably needs a change.

 

[Mike Tuvre USA]

The bottom line is, I can count on one hand the guys in my gym (who are tall/lean and cut like me), that bench 100lb+ dbs, or overhead 80lb dbs, or do pull ups wiith stupid amounts of weight. I can't squat anymore due to an injury, but I leg press silly amount of plates. I am just your average 10 year lifter who looks good/not killer. The weight I do lift is dangerously heavy for my frame/I could easily injure myself. Also, all of my lifts were up when i was 20-30lbs fatter. I'm just not seeing myself upping the weight anymore. Doesn't anyone know what it feels like to feel it in your body everywhere but the muscles? Not cool. And when i drop back in lifts/weight, I do not get any bigger (I'm better off taking time off than going lighter/ upping the reps). Thanks for the responses.

 

[Nate K]

how old are you?

 

[Mike Tuvre USA]

30's, but I'm not going to stop lifting in 40's or 50's or 60's whatever (unless forced). I'm saying I'm not growing. I'm not saying I'm going to stop lifting. I suppose someone is going to say that growth stops at a certain age. If true, maybe they should tell us here so that people won't waste their time trying to get bigger.

 

[PWGriffin]

The bottom line is, I can count on one hand the guys in my gym (who are tall/lean and cut like me), that bench 100lb+ dbs, or overhead 80lb dbs, or do pull ups wiith stupid amounts of weight. I can't squat anymore due to an injury, but I leg press silly amount of plates. I am just your average 10 year lifter who looks good/not killer. The weight I do lift is dangerously heavy for my frame/I could easily injure myself. Also, all of my lifts were up when i was 20-30lbs fatter. I'm just not seeing myself upping the weight anymore. Doesn't anyone know what it feels like to feel it in your body everywhere but the muscles? Not cool. And when i drop back in lifts/weight, I do not get any bigger (I'm better off taking time off than going lighter/ upping the reps). Thanks for the responses.

Do you periodize your workouts?? Also, training for strength and size are somewhat different....maybe you might want to change gears for a minute. Start setting goals in the gym about what you are going to do before you get there, and motivate yourself better to hit those goals...I go into every workout with a goal in mind and haven't missed a mark in 2 months.

What kind of injury prevents you from squatting?

I move heavy weights around too, LOTS of people here do, that doesn't mean we are all flirting with a serious injury...it's part of knowing what you are doing in the gym and warming up properly...although, shit happens sometimes.





My diagnosis




Start using anabolics heh.

Oh yeah, I just saw your post regarding not growing past a certain age....It's not that you can't grow past a certain age, but it may prove more difficult than it was when you were younger....hGH and Test levels begin to drop after 30...or so I've read.

 

[Mike Tuvre USA]

Regarding heavy weight, i know alot of people move it here, but I started at 6'2"/145. The muscle I have hides a stick figure. Seriously. I still feel like the 145lber when I lift. I just look different. Make any sense?

I don't know if this is realistic, but I would really like to start over as if I'm a beginner (only with the muscle I currently have). Maybe get a personal trainer and start from scratch. Maybe relearn how to lift. Sounds strange I know.

 

[P-funk]

okay, let me lay out the facts:

1) you start a thread saying you think you have reached the limit of your genetic potential. (how old are you anyway).

2) people post questions saying things like "what is your current training program?", "do you periodize?", etc..

3) you continually have avoided the questions.

That brings me to one conclusion:

You don't know how to set up a proper training program, you don't know how to manipulate the variables to get what you want or continue making improvements and you don't want to let us know that you don't know.

Help us help you.

 

[CowPimp]

okay, let me lay out the facts:

1) you start a thread saying you think you have reached the limit of your genetic potential. (how old are you anyway).

2) people post questions saying things like "what is your current training program?", "do you periodize?", etc..

3) you continually have avoided the questions.

That brings me to one conclusion:

You don't know how to set up a proper training program, you don't know how to manipulate the variables to get what you want or continue making improvements and you don't want to let us know that you don't know.

Help us help you.

Indeed. It sounds like you were looking for a supportive "you're right, hang up your lifting gloves" kind of response instead of what you're getting.

 

[houtexflex80]

Well if you have seriously tried everything maby you should work a little counterintuitively. Like lowering your caloric intake or limiting the amount of sleep you get (just a few nights) in an attempt to force your body to make better use of food and sleep. Or possibly your body may just need a break, from 3 to 6 weeks without lifting, when you DO pick the weights back up there will be a sense of newness that may shock your body into new growth.
Good Luck

 

[PWGriffin]

Well if you have seriously tried everything maby you should work a little counterintuitively. Like lowering your caloric intake or limiting the amount of sleep you get (just a few nights) in an attempt to force your body to make better use of food and sleep. Or possibly your body may just need a break, from 3 to 6 weeks without lifting, when you DO pick the weights back up there will be a sense of newness that may shock your body into new growth.
Good Luck

a break might be what he needs but 3-6 weeks is a long fucking time....


Are you really recommending he go into a caloric deficit and deprive himself of sleep to see gains later?? That is silly.

 

[Richie1888]

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=31408

guys in the posistion ur in is one of the reasons he created it ^^^^^^^^^

 

[houtexflex80]

Counterintuitive-adj. 1.Contrary to what intuition or common sense would indicate. Im not suggesting that he go without sleep for days, but it is fairly common knowlege that sleeping less than 8 hours slows one's metabolism. I used this technique (quite accidentally) to break a plateau and move up from 215 to 220. A 3-6 week rest may seem like a long time mentally (when lifting has become a habit but physically it is nessisary for everyone. 1 step back in order to take 2 steps forward. I'm not recommending he do anything like deadlift with straps... now that's silly.

 

[PWGriffin]

Counterintuitive-adj. 1.Contrary to what intuition or common sense would indicate. Im not suggesting that he go without sleep for days, but it is fairly common knowlege that sleeping less than 8 hours slows one's metabolism. I used this technique (quite accidentally) to break a plateau and move up from 215 to 220. A 3-6 week rest may seem like a long time mentally (when lifting has become a habit but physically it is nessisary for everyone. 1 step back in order to take 2 steps forward. I'm not recommending he do anything like deadlift with straps... now that's silly.

I know what counterintuitive means

If the only thing that sleep deprivation does that "might" be positive is slow down a crazy metabolism, then that person could just eat more and get the same effect right?? Now they not only have all the benefits of a good night's sleep but also the added macronutrients necessary for growth.

I would never take longer than 2 weeks off.....ever....unless I had a serious injury or medical condition that required me to do so.

 

[houtexflex80]

The primise of this discussion is what to do when you've tried everything and cannot break a plateau. Of coarse proper nutrition and a solid 8 hours of sleep nightly should be the norm. But what do you do when your body has become accustomed to this ? Throw it a curve ball. Increasing caloric intake will speed up metabolism (if spread evenly thoughout the day), but reduced intake will send the body into "scavenger mode", forcing it to make use of every little morsel. Times of reduced intake and sleep will not be times of growth, but you can take advantage of "scavenger mode" by reverting to proper intake or sleep once your body has become more efficient. I wouldn't try doing both simultaniously as that would be too stressful.

Our bodies have a funny way of inverting our actions. EX1 : caffeine wakes you up initially, but in the long run it causes an increase in gaba production, resulting in energy inhibition. EX2: Testosterone injections resulting in decreased testicular test. production. EX3: Inadequate hydration resulting in water retention.

We all know that muscles adapt and become more efficient when stressed, this is also true for other bodily subsystems and the basis for my suggestions.

I usually take a month off every 6 months or so to allow my muscles, bones, and ligaments to recover and return to square one.This is based on the fact that a couch potato has more growth potential than a disiplined lifter who has gone many months without a break. The first week back results in nearly week long soreness for every muscle group. Though there is no question as to who is stronger, or more muscular (couch spud or lifter), but a break can help a lifter recoup and optimize growth potential. PWGriffin, your response indicates that you are waiting for serious injury, which is precisely what an extended break aims to prevent. But if a 2 week break works for you then I wish you the best of luck. Extended breaks do suck, sometimes it feels as if I'm shrinking but the scale and tape tell me otherwise.

 

[PWGriffin]

The primise of this discussion is what to do when you've tried everything and cannot break a plateau. Of coarse proper nutrition and a solid 8 hours of sleep nightly should be the norm. But what do you do when your body has become accustomed to this ? Throw it a curve ball. Increasing caloric intake will speed up metabolism (if spread evenly thoughout the day), but reduced intake will send the body into "scavenger mode", forcing it to make use of every little morsel. Times of reduced intake and sleep will not be times of growth, but you can take advantage of "scavenger mode" by reverting to proper intake or sleep once your body has become more efficient. I wouldn't try doing both simultaniously as that would be too stressful.

Our bodies have a funny way of inverting our actions. EX1 : caffeine wakes you up initially, but in the long run it causes an increase in gaba production, resulting in energy inhibition. EX2: Testosterone injections resulting in decreased testicular test. production. EX3: Inadequate hydration resulting in water retention.

We all know that muscles adapt and become more efficient when stressed, this is also true for other bodily subsystems and the basis for my suggestions.

I usually take a month off every 6 months or so to allow my muscles, bones, and ligaments to recover and return to square one.This is based on the fact that a couch potato has more growth potential than a disiplined lifter who has gone many months without a break. The first week back results in nearly week long soreness for every muscle group. Though there is no question as to who is stronger, or more muscular (couch spud or lifter), but a break can help a lifter recoup and optimize growth potential. PWGriffin, your response indicates that you are waiting for serious injury, which is precisely what an extended break aims to prevent. But if a 2 week break works for you then I wish you the best of luck. Extended breaks do suck, sometimes it feels as if I'm shrinking but the scale and tape tell me otherwise.

What you are not understanding about the "premise" of this discussion is that we have been trying to figure out IF he's doing everything he should. Also, he IS able to bulk, but he doesn't WANT to because he doesn't want the added FAT that comes with it. So before a person would DEPRIVE themselves of much needed sleep and CUT calories I think it should be established first that all their ducks are in a row. Which we haven't.

Heavy resistance training done properly STRENGTHENS connective tissues. So returning to square one would be a step in the wrong direction. Again, I either unload or take a week off EVERY MONTH. So don't tell me I'm waiting for injury, you don't know shit about my training.

 

[houtexflex80]

Ohh well then pardon my input I didn't realize that we were running in circles
about whether or not mike is telling the truth. If a dude says he has lifted for 10 years then I'm pretty sure he knows the basics, I just wanted to throw some abstract ideas out there. BTW, caloric restriction OR less sleep,
(the OR implies one of the two). Square one- meaning a new starting point . Resting will not take you in the wrong direction, quitting will, but I'm just talking about a rest. Heavy resistence training initiates the process of strengthening the body, but that process is facilitated during rest, as I'm sure you know.

To the original poster:
Mike sorry for offering you advise, I was unaware that I was supposed to question your credibility. LIFT HEAVY EAT BIG SLEEP SLEEP SLEEP. Been there done that? LIFT HEAVY EAT BIG SLEEP SLEEP SLEEP, dizzy yet? Big up's for deciding not to juice.

"Also, he IS able to bulk, but he doesn't WANT to because he doesn't want the added FAT that comes with it." Exactly why I proposed a temporary caloric deficit, followed by proper intake. His options are: increase kcals, maintain kcals, or reduce kcals. Mike has rulled out option #1 so I offer a combination of the last 2.

1 week off per month or(<--check it out there's that word again) 3-6 weeks off per 6 months, "Same shit different toiliet."-HOVA

As far as this thread goes I'm out.

"When you argue with the village idiot the village only sees two idiots arguing"
-LAU TZU

 

[PWGriffin]

Ohh well then pardon my input I didn't realize that we were running in circles
about whether or not mike is telling the truth. If a dude says he has lifted for 10 years then I'm pretty sure he knows the basics, I just wanted to throw some abstract ideas out there. BTW, caloric restriction OR less sleep,
(the OR implies one of the two). Square one- meaning a new starting point . Resting will not take you in the wrong direction, quitting will, but I'm just talking about a rest. Heavy resistence training initiates the process of strengthening the body, but that process is facilitated during rest, as I'm sure you know.

To the original poster:
Mike sorry for offering you advise, I was unaware that I was supposed to question your credibility. LIFT HEAVY EAT BIG SLEEP SLEEP SLEEP. Been there done that? LIFT HEAVY EAT BIG SLEEP SLEEP SLEEP, dizzy yet? Big up's for deciding not to juice.

"Also, he IS able to bulk, but he doesn't WANT to because he doesn't want the added FAT that comes with it." Exactly why I proposed a temporary caloric deficit, followed by proper intake. His options are: increase kcals, maintain kcals, or reduce kcals. Mike has rulled out option #1 so I offer a combination of the last 2.

1 week off per month or(<--check it out there's that word again) 3-6 weeks off per 6 months, "Same shit different toiliet."-HOVA

As far as this thread goes I'm out.

"When you argue with the village idiot the village only sees two idiots arguing"
-LAU TZU

Ok dude, your right. Taking a month off of lifting twice a year is EXACTLY the same as unloading after an accumulation/intensification phase. And your ideas would benefit him much more than periodizing a program, changing modes/direction, and getting more meticulous with the diet. Even though he never mentioned those, I'm SURE he's doing all that to a "T". And I'm sure your ideas have been THOROUGHLY researched and documented....


You know I've hit a wall with my training as well...I bet I've been sleeping too much and eating too many calories. With this new variable to manipulate, I am sure to take it to the next level. Ronnie Coleman here I come!!!

 

[CowPimp]

Sleep deprivation is the worst idea I have ever heard with regard to breaking a plateau. The poster said he has good control of his diet, and he said that he has been a heavier weight in the past. Therefore, weight gain is not the issue, but muscle gain. That makes this initial point moot, and largely lays blame on his training program for his inability to break this plateau. Even beyond that, it is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard.

Taking some time off might not be a good idea, but taking 6 weeks off is ridiculous. 1-2 weeks should be plenty unless the gentleman is actually in a state of overtraining. If so, then it could conceivably take longer for him to get his body back to baseline so to speak.

If you are merely overtraining beyond your body's ability to repair tissue damage, then it doesn't take very long for them to fully recovery. However, if you have overstressed your nervous system, and are suffering symptoms of true overtraining, then that is another story entirely.

It is far more likely that this poster does need to go beyond the basics. I'm sure he does know the basics, but at this point in his training career that may not be enough. He is, however, dodging all of the questions regarding his training program. This leads me to believe that he just needs to get more systematic in his approach to resistance training.

 

[benverner]

I've found that when I bulk I need to hold my peak weight for at least 4-6 weeks in order to hold the amount of muscle that I want. If you've been to 230 and are cut at 190 something needs to change in your bulk/cut. If you can hit 230 then theoretically over the course of 2-3 years you should be able to hold that weight and lower your BF to an acceptable level while slowly gaining.

IMO either you aren't holding your bulk long enough for your body to adjust to the size and increased needs, or your cut is too drastic and is catabolizing muscle. I've done both accidentally and it makes your bulk a waste of time and it sucks.

Oh, and stop making excuses, if you want to maintain then do it and don't ask the question. 6'2" @190 and cut (what BF%)? I'm guessing you look like you workout, but barely.

 

[Ahsan]

1. post ur diet

2. post ur training regimen

3. what supplements u take

4. how many hours do u sleep

& maybe then we might be able to help u. OK

 

[Ahsan]

Stop complaining about your body structure.
I was 6'2" 110 lbs (I wasn't lean when I started) when I started & now I am 6'3" 170 lbs ( due to hard work). I have a lil' fat also cuz its natural due to such a huge bulk.

 

[PWGriffin]

Stop complaining about your body structure.
I was 6'2" 110 lbs (I wasn't lean when I started) when I started & now I am 6'3" 170 lbs ( due to hard work). I have a lil' fat also cuz its natural due to such a huge bulk.

6'2" and 110lbs!!!

 

[overboard]

I was getting into this post. Why did the origional poster disappear, was he a poser instead of a poster?

BTW, I have had a few injuries over the years, but it has always, believe it or not, been with light to moderate weight, not heavy.