2x/Week Full Body Routine: Up to Par? Help!

[NMOY]

I have been reading a LOT about full body routines lately, and it is the only type of routine I havn't tried. This summer I will be busy earning some $$, but want to gain strength, gain a little more mass, and tone up!
I have devised a fullbody routine, where each of the 2 full-body days -while working all muscles - focuses on a few more-so than others, with the two days being complimentary.
I just wanted some input on whether or not you think this is a good way to approach the two day full body workout, or If I should stick with something simpler for my goals.

What do you think!?:

Full Body Workout Routine 1:

(3-4 sets of all Major Exercises, ~Also: a ???_??? between two actions denotes doing the 2nd action at the peek of the first action, IE doing a calf raise at the top of your squat on each rep, and a shrug at the top of each rep on Deadlift --oh and the 1x bodyweight sets are just used as a stretch and warmdown/finisher.)
-------------------------------------------
Monday: Cardio + Abs

Tuesday:
4x Wide-Grip Bench Press /
3x Dips /
4x Military Press / 1x Wide-Grip Pushups /
4x Deadlifts_ Calves / 1x Bodyweight-Squats /
4x Pull-ups /
(Focuses more on Chest/Tri than Friday.)

Wednesday: Off

Thursday: Cardio + Abs

Friday:
4x Squats_Calf Raises / 1x Bodyweight-Squats /
4x Bent Barbell Row /
Super-set: 2x Curls + 4x Stiff-Legged Deadlifts_ Shrugs /
4x Dumbbell Incline Bench Press /
3x Arnold Shoulder Press / 1x Pushups /
(Focuses more on Back/Bi/Leg/Shoulders than Tuesday.)

Saturday: Cardio + Abs

Sunday: Off
---------------------------------------------------------

Comments? How does the order of the exercises look to you? I was trying to vary what is done when each day, while putting them in a logical order pairing similar muscle groups etc...

Thanks!

_Zack A_

 

[CowPimp]

Way way way too many pressing movements relative to the pulling movements. Have you read my sticky about designing a full body routine? Check it out.

 

[NMOY]

ooooh man, looking at this again keeping at inmind I see what you mean. Im going to revisit your sticky. Thanks.

 

[NMOY]

Updated Pull Push balance!?

Thanks CowPimp: Does this look better balanced to you?
Full Body Workout Routine 2.0:

(3-4 sets of all Major Exercises / Also: Calf Raises are done at the peek of each rep of Deadlifts and Squats. Shrugs are also done at the peek of each rep of all Deadlift types.)

Monday: Cardio + Abs

Tuesday:
4x Barbell Bench Press {Horizontal Push} /
4x Arnold Shoulder Press {Vertical Push} / 1x Pushups /
Super-set: 2x Side Lateral Raises + 4x Deadlifts {Q.D.} /
1x One-Legged Bodyweight-Squats /
4x Pull-ups {Vertical Pull} /
3x Full Cable Row {Horizontal Pull} /

Wednesday: Off

Thursday: Cardio + Abs

Friday:
4x Squats {Q.D.} / 1x Bodyweight Jump-Squats /
4x Bent Barbell Row {Horizontal Pull} /
Super-set: 2x Curls + 4x Stiff-Legged Deadlifts {H.D.} ~ Vertical Pull} /
4x Incline Dumbbell Bench Press {Horizontal Push} /
3x Dips {Vertical Push} / 1x Close-Grip Pushups /

Saturday: Cardio + Abs

Sunday: Off

-------------------------------------------
Also it seems that this way I ALWAYS end up with more Back work than anything else, is that so? And if so, how could I balance that out?
are there any tweeks you would suggest balance wise or Order wise?
thanks

 

[Squaggleboggin]

Firstly, you'll most likely want to do your most compound movements first (those that work the most muscles/joints). This will ensure that your body has enough energy to do the work with these movements (which should involve more weight than simpler movements).

Secondly, make sure your diet is in check, or this will get you nowhere after a few short weeks.

Thirdly, you may not want to work your core (as in abs) the day before some of your compound movements. You don't want sore abs when doing squats because you may have unnecessary forward lean from the inability to continuously support such a weight.

Fourthly, I can't quite understand the logic behind the movements you've grouped together on each day. This doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it - I often have trouble with basic things for some reason.

Fifthly, don't limit yourself to a seven-day microcycle. Make the schedule according to how you feel your body will respond best.

To summarize: There's nothing inherently wrong that I see. Just consider changing exercise order and the days on which you exercise and make sure your diet is good.

 

[NMOY]

Ah

Thank you for your advice.
I see what you mean about the most compound exercises first.
To me this means that it should always be:
1st: Squats/Deads
2nd/3rd: Back or Chest, depending on the exercise for the day.
I see the sense in this.
I also appreciate the advice about Abs, it makes great sense not to do abs the day before these lifts.

Minus that, what was your problem with the logic of order? What do you find unclear or disconcerting?

I wanted to keep Chest/Tri/Shoulder working exercises done back to back, (as the muscles are all worked together) so that the muscles don't cool down, IE Bench then Military press, apposed to Bench, Pullups, Military, which gives shoulders time to cool down. I would rather hit them while they are hot!
--Same goes for back/bi exercises back to back, I like completing complimentary exercises for complimentary body-parts back to back before moving on to the next. Is that a correct, healthy approach?
Does this make sense?

Thanks

(So you know, here is the latest adaptation with some order changes, and changes made to the abs days)


Full Body Workout Routine 2.2:

(3-4 sets of all Major Exercises / Also: Calf Raises are done at the peek of each rep during Deadlifts and Squats. Shrugs are also done at the peek of each rep of all Deadlift types.)

Monday: Off

Tuesday:
4x Deadlifts / 1x One-Legged Bodyweight-Squats /
4x Barbell Bench Press {Horizontal Push} / 1x Pushups /
4x Arnold Shoulder Press {Vertical Push} /
Super-set: 3x Side Lateral Raises + 4x Pull-ups {Vertical Pull} /
3x Full Cable Row {Horizontal Pull} /

Wednesday: Cardio + Abs

Thursday: Off

Friday:
4x Squats / 1x Bodyweight Jump-Squats /
4x Bent Barbell Row {Horizontal Pull} /
Super-set: 3x Curls + 4x Stiff-Legged Deadlifts ~ {Vertical Pull} /
4x Incline Dumbbell Bench Press {Horizontal Push} /
3x Dips {Vertical Push} / 1x Close-Grip Pushups /

Saturday: Cardio + Abs

Sunday: Light Cardio

--------------------------------------
More comments? Thanks so much!

 

[CowPimp]

Deadlifts and stiff-legged deadlifts are not "back" work. Don't think of them like that. Yes, a lot of your back musculature has to isometrically contract to stabilize you during the lift, but the prime movers are all in the lower body for both movements. The same could be said for any compound movement referring to your abs. However, they are not ab movements, they just require your abs to maintain proper posture. Granted, you do get some scapular retraction at the top of a deadlift. Nonetheless, I would never categorize it as a back exercise.

Overall it looks pretty good, but stiff-legged deadlifts are not a vertical pulling movement. That is a lower body movement, much more hamstring dominant (It's basically all hip extension). Replace that with something like a pullup or pulldown variation. You want shoulder extension and/or adduction.

I feel like you're trying to make things a little complicated. For example, throwing in a single set of jump squats and such. You are probably limiting the effectiveness of that exercise by just doing one set. You would be much better off doing many sets of a few reps. It probably won't hurt, and if you feel like you would enjoy your workout more including items like that, then by all means keep them in there. Entertainment value is definitely something that must be considered, and sometimes I do stuff like that myself for fun.

By the way, thank you for taking the time to read up and produce a competent routine. You definitely put some thought into this and didn't jump into it blindly!

 

[Andalite]

hi.. i'm new here, but i may be able to help you out...

have you heard of a strength coach called Chad Waterbury...?

well, if you havent, then he has designed some pretty good full body workouts and IMHO you should try one of those...
http://www.t-nation.com/ALSAuthor.d...C0F80C6E4EF9E.hydra?p=Chad Waterbury&pageNo=1

here is a link to a list of ALL his programs... if you need any help in setting up a program, feel free to pm me..

 

[NMOY]

Thank you for all that information~! It is much appreciated.

I am happy to replace Stiff-legged Deadlifts with a pullup/down variant. I just wanted to know:

~Will I still be getting enough LOWER BACK work without Stifflegged deadlifts?
I thought I could superset something with some back extensions now that S.L.D.'s are out...
and,
~Will I end up getting a more LAT work than anything else between Pullups and Bent Rows? Or is it a good balance of Lats and Middle-back work with both rows and pullups/downs?
lastely,
~Do I now need to add Hamstring Dominant exercises to both days, or are the squats and normal deadlifts enough to cover the hamstrings?
If I do need to add a hamstring dominant exercise to each day, are there two different ones that you would suggest?
(*edit:If you think a Ham. Dom. exercise is needed both days, I was thinking I could throw on 3 sets of Lunges supersetted with Bench Press on Tuesday, and 3 sets of lunges supersetted with Bent Barbell Row on Fridays. Do you think this would be ideal? as Lunges are Ham. Dominant, or would this addition be unneccacery for what i'm trying to do..? thanks)
-
I just want to make sure that I'm balanced, but it seems when I balance push/pulls I will always have two back exercises working primarily the same muscles. Is this silly of me?

thanks.

*updated*

Monday: Off

Tuesday:
4x Deadlifts /
4x Barbell Bench Press {Horizontal Push} (possible superset with lunges?) /
4x Arnold Shoulder Press {Vertical Push} /
Super-set: 3x Side Lateral Raises + 4x Pull-ups {Vertical Pull} /
3x Full Cable Row {Horizontal Pull} /

Wednesday: 30 min. Cardio + Abs

Thursday: Off

Friday:
4x Squats /
4x Bent Barbell Row {Horizontal Pull} (possible superset with lunges?) /
Superset: 3x Back Extensions + 4x Chin-ups {Vertical Pull} /
4x Incline Dumbbell Bench Press {Horizontal Push} /
3x Dips {Vertical Push} /

Saturday: 30 min. Cardio + Abs

Sunday: Off

 

[CowPimp]

~Will I still be getting enough LOWER BACK work without Stifflegged deadlifts?
I thought I could superset something with some back extensions now that S.L.D.'s are out...

I would say what you have there is just fine. Between deadlifts, squats, and the bent rows your lower back is already getting a lot of stimulation as a major stabilizer. Although I see nothing wrong with adding in those back extensions. In fact, it is probably a good idea to help balance out the ab work you do on the other days.

and,
~Will I end up getting a more LAT work than anything else between Pullups and Bent Rows? Or is it a good balance of Lats and Middle-back work with both rows and pullups/downs?

Your lats are going to get used during all of those movements. The lats are recruited during both shoulder extension (Think the opposite of a front raise) and shoulder adduction (Think the opposite of a lateral raise).

You will also get plenty of middle/upper back work with the rowing movements. The rhomboids will get used during the rowing movements as a scapular retractor (Pulling the shoulder blades together), and they will get used during the pullups to rotate the scapula downward.

The middle/lower traps will primarily be stimulated during the rowing movements, but they will also be firing like crazy during deadlifts and squats to keep your scapula retracted and help you maintain good posture; they also get used when you lockout at the top of the deadlift.

This is why I generally advocate a wide variety of grip widths and humeral orientations with back work. So, for the pullups you might want to take a fairly wide grip to induce shoulder adduction and downward rotation of the scapula. For the chinups you might want to take a closer grip so that you can focus on shoulder extension. For the rows you could pull real low and using a fairly close grip with one variation to increase the range of motion and focus on scapular retraction, and you could pull high with a wider grip on another variation to induce transverse extension which will involve the posterior delts to a larger degree. In short, use a variety of grips and humeral orientations (Supinated, pronated, and neutral) to get the most out of your pulling movements.

lastely,
~Do I now need to add Hamstring Dominant exercises to both days, or are the squats and normal deadlifts enough to cover the hamstrings?
If I do need to add a hamstring dominant exercise to each day, are there two different ones that you would suggest?

One day contains a hamstring dominant movement, the other a quad dominant movement. Both of these exercises stimulate the hamstrings and quads though, so in the end they get stimulated on both days. One days just emphasizes one muscle group over the other. Also, hyperextensions involve your hamstring and glutes as well. Some of the ab work you do will include the rectus femoris (One of the heads of the quadriceps) as a hip flexor as well.

However, it wouldn't hurt if you wanted to toss in some extra lower body work on each of these days. I'm sure you could handle it. Just make sure the routine doesn't get to the point where it takes too long to complete each session.

-
I just want to make sure that I'm balanced, but it seems when I balance push/pulls I will always have two back exercises working primarily the same muscles. Is this silly of me?

No. A lot of the same muscles will get used, however, the emphasis will shift depending on the various factors I already mentioned. Plus it's smart to train the various functions of these muscles. When you do pressing movements, the same musculature is often used as well. It's still good to train the different functions of these muscles though, and you also want to have those extra movements in to raise the volume enough to induce hypertrophy.



Your routine looks pretty good though. Hopefully I didn't go into too much detail, and please feel free to follow up with more questions if you so desire. Good luck, and happy lifting.

 

[NMOY]

Awesome. I appreciate your time and thoroughness, you didn't run on at all.
-Im gonna keep those back extensions in there, and refrain from adding and additional leg work untill I try it out. *if anything, I think some lunges on friday would be good, because I have 3 days to recover, which is mooore than enough.
-I figure after Two weeks, if I don't feel I'm getting enough lower body, Ill add in some lunges somewhere, but I agree; I don't want this routine to grow and grow till it is far to much, and really appreciate time efficiency.
Thanks for the back workout explanation - I def try to alternate grips regularly.
I cant wait to try it!

~Z

 

[CowPimp]

Good luck bud. I hope you enjoy the workout. Full body sessions are great.