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- Thread starter tenxyearsxgone
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im not sure what you are trying to establish bam, but your body adapts to a routine between 14-21 days, therefore changing the variables, ie what fibers you target through various percentages of your 1RM will keep the muscles responding and growing, at least thats what I gathered through readings such as those put forth by charles poliquin.
as far as detraining...when you are training certain fibers through a rep-range the ones that are not being trained are not being worked, laying dormant and not being recruited...by having shorter cycles you don't give your dormant fibers enough time to atrophy...so since my main goal is strength most of my training falls into the higher percentages of my 1RM...but i do however throw in a phase of hypertrophy so that I do not lose too much size while training for strength... does that make sense? all in all im trying to keep this converation in connection to my original post...thanks! any advice gopro?
as far as detraining...when you are training certain fibers through a rep-range the ones that are not being trained are not being worked, laying dormant and not being recruited...by having shorter cycles you don't give your dormant fibers enough time to atrophy...so since my main goal is strength most of my training falls into the higher percentages of my 1RM...but i do however throw in a phase of hypertrophy so that I do not lose too much size while training for strength... does that make sense? all in all im trying to keep this converation in connection to my original post...thanks! any advice gopro?
I thought The Size Principle of Recruitment implied that muscle fibers are recruited (despite desired force output) in order of their size. ie, Type 1 motor units are recruited first, as the force demands advance, Type IIa fibers are recruited, and finally Type IIb (which are easily fatigued, presumably explaining why you can't lift a heavy weight anaerobically indefitently).
This is of course a simplification, presuming there are 3 fiber types, but i'm just using an example. I didn't know you could train the fibers individually.
This is of course a simplification, presuming there are 3 fiber types, but i'm just using an example. I didn't know you could train the fibers individually.
you're right duncandonuts, all muscles fire based on order of recruitment, but everyone is set with a certain ratio of types I, IIa, & IIb.......force develops in the muscles based on the tension placed upon them, so if someone has more type I than type II, they wont be able to generate the same force........and studies are controversial about being able to change one type of fiber to another thru training, and as of yet we aren't able to have hyperplasia.........
as to adapting to a routine in 14-21 days, agree if you are going into the gym and performing the same 3 exercises for ex. chest every week with the same weight.....but as long as you change a variable to the training, you are fine, at least I have been and my clients have.......
as to adapting to a routine in 14-21 days, agree if you are going into the gym and performing the same 3 exercises for ex. chest every week with the same weight.....but as long as you change a variable to the training, you are fine, at least I have been and my clients have.......
If you are changing the variables that frequently then you are essentially changing the routine weekly...not every 4 weeks as you suggested. This is because the same muscle is not being worked weekly because you are substituting it for another exercise that will primarily focus on another muscle.
You could keep the schedule i've posted and for example on chest you could do flat bench week 1 incline bench week 2...you are going to do both of them in each workout but will alternated which one is first in the lineup and given a fuller workout...that will change what muscle is stressed on a weekly basis as well as what fibers are targeted every 2 weeks...
As I said my main goal is strength...50% of my program is devoted to developing strength (myofibrillar)...while 25% will fall in between strength/hypertrophy (myofibrillar/sarcoplasmic), and 25% will be hypertrophy (sarcoplasmic)
Again, this is how i interpretated some articles produced by Charles Poliquin. A routine like this can be either repeated or followed by his version of German Volume Training to increase hypertrophy/muscle mass. I think if you cycle 2-3, maybe even 4, programs continuously you'll be forever gaining in strength/size, although the amount may dwindle as you near your genetic potential.
month 1/2 = Strength Training (outlined above)
month 3/4 = Hypertrohpy (GVT)
month 4/6 = Powerlifting Training (www.joeskopec.com)
month 7/8 = Strength Training
month 9/10 = Hypertrophy (maybe HST, traditional 8-10, or GVT)
Month 11/12 = STrength Training
any ideas//comments guys?gopro?snf?
You could keep the schedule i've posted and for example on chest you could do flat bench week 1 incline bench week 2...you are going to do both of them in each workout but will alternated which one is first in the lineup and given a fuller workout...that will change what muscle is stressed on a weekly basis as well as what fibers are targeted every 2 weeks...
As I said my main goal is strength...50% of my program is devoted to developing strength (myofibrillar)...while 25% will fall in between strength/hypertrophy (myofibrillar/sarcoplasmic), and 25% will be hypertrophy (sarcoplasmic)
Again, this is how i interpretated some articles produced by Charles Poliquin. A routine like this can be either repeated or followed by his version of German Volume Training to increase hypertrophy/muscle mass. I think if you cycle 2-3, maybe even 4, programs continuously you'll be forever gaining in strength/size, although the amount may dwindle as you near your genetic potential.
month 1/2 = Strength Training (outlined above)
month 3/4 = Hypertrohpy (GVT)
month 4/6 = Powerlifting Training (www.joeskopec.com)
month 7/8 = Strength Training
month 9/10 = Hypertrophy (maybe HST, traditional 8-10, or GVT)
Month 11/12 = STrength Training
any ideas//comments guys?gopro?snf?
month 4/6 = Powerlifting Training (www.joeskopec.com)
At this site, check out the video of Tom Platz squatting 500 for 23 reps. Awesome!
At this site, check out the video of Tom Platz squatting 500 for 23 reps. Awesome!
yeah you see kaz in the back...good video...lots of good stuff on that site...
any other comments about the program?
any other comments about the program?
Because you don't understand powerlifting "protocols" I will explain. Rep ranges, fr hypertrophy, don't matter. Eat and train, and you will grow. So, in theory, you could train every single lift to a 1RM and grow. We know this is untrue in practice because the CNS will refuse to bear such a load for such a time. Powerlifting "protocol" is simple. You train the big 3 lifts, through varieites of the lifts, to always keep the CNS from adapting. But the CNS is only part of it. You'll see from the Hypertrophy Formula that your body cannot lift a weight that it simply cannot lift. Though the CNS creates barriers, physical ability does as well.
But we've established that the CNS cannot handle an entire session in the 90-100% intensity range.So powerlifters are constantly changing up their intensity levels throughout a training session. Once the main work is done, anything is fair game. 8 sets of 3, 4 sets of 6, 3 set of 15, 2 sets of 20, whatever! Are these optimal for strength gain? Of course not. Prilepin's Table dictates very accurately what is "optimal" for strength training. But the Hypertrophy Formula also states very accurately what is required to achieve hypertrophy. In a very simple wording, you simply need to lift enough tension for enough time, but the amount of tension must be minimally stimulating.
I don't know where you got the idea I thought everyone should stick to one rep range all the time. If you have ever taken a look into my journal, you'll realize I'm changing up rep ranges all the time.
Here are some fundamental differences between what I do and what P/RR/S does (and everyone will please remember I've never knocked P/RR/S, I simply differ on ideas and generally differ on everything with its creator
):P/RR/S is a periodized program, based on 2 week cycles. (P cycle, RR cycle, S cycle).
Westside is a periodized program, based on daily cycles. (every session includes power work, every session includes rep range work, shock work isn't very common but then GoPro doesn't recommend doing it all the time either).
P/RR/S peaks in the 4-6 rep range. (correct me if I'm wrong) This range falls into the 70% intensity level. It spends RR time in the 60% rep range. Enough to stimulate hypertrophy in most lifters, but not a solid intensity level for strength training.
Westside peaks at 1RM. (100% intensity) Accessory work ranges from 60% to 100%. Enough to stimulate hypertrophy (across the intensity levels) but also enough (at 70% or higher) to stimulate strength gains.
I think I once mentioned this before, but let's have some guinea pigs step forward. Maybe 4 people. 2 guys, 2 gals. Here are the 2 criteria for this test. You have to take pictures before, in the middle and after. You also have to test your 1RM on the big 3 before, in the middle and after. We can even potentially do this twice to reverse the order.
Test 1RMs and take before pics.
Do 6 week run of P/RR/S.
Test 1RMs and take during pics.
Do 6 week run of Westside.
Test 1RMs and take after pics.
-optionally, though I hope we can get a guinea pig for 6 months-
Take 1 week off.
Do 6 week run of Westside.
Test 1RMs and take during pics.
Do 6 week run of P/RR/S.
test 1RMs and take after pics.
This wouldn't be to discredit anything. This would simply show 2 things. What is best for strength gains, and what is best for hypertrophy. Perhaps hypertrophy will develop equally. perhaps strength will. But this would be one shot for the entire forum to see. But we'd need a guinea pig.
Trust me, I've noticed how the 'powers that be' have pretty much ignored the request to review your program. I think they should 'take it outside' and spar in their own threadtenxyearsxgone said:
.To be honest man, I have worked out for many years, but I leave the 'what works best' to the so called experts. I am old enough to say it changes every couple of years.... not just workouts, but diet.
I have read this entire thread, and IMO the most meaningful thing said was CowPimp's comment.
CowPimp said:
In my own training, I do rotate rep schemes. I like to alternate 10-12, 8-10, 6-8, 4-6, triples, doubles and singles (not necessarily in that order). I only do this with compound movements like squat, deadlift and bench, and their variations. For accessory lifts I never go under 5. Plain and simple, but it works for me
.
To answer the detraining fibers stuff, You don't detrain specific fibers. By using a specific fiber type, the body adapts to which fibers you are using most by producing more of the enzymes that produce energy in that way. What is theorized is that this causes the Type IIa fibers to act more like Type I or Type IIb, depending on the system being used.
As a side note, I hear there are more fiber types than originally thought, which is far too involved for me.
As a side note, I hear there are more fiber types than originally thought, which is far too involved for me.
tenxyearsxgone said:
according to whom ?
bambam613 said:hey gopro.........dont make me come over to the cheesy east coast of sunny florida and shock & awe your ass.........
Miss talkin to u bud
You know I was just playing bro...stay over there on your side of Florida where the dumbells only go up to 120s, as we know you can't handle more than that!
LOL...seriously, bambam is not only one of the most knowledgable people on all things bodybuilding/strength training related, but he is built like a Mack Truck, but with symmetry and proportion. He is one of the strongest and most well-bulit natural bodubuilders I have ever had the privilage to work with. His lifts at his bodyweight/bodyfat % are astounding! If you saw him in person you would immediately assume STEROIDS, but this once chubby kid has never touched em in his life and never will. He is a freak!
Saturday Fever said:
In my version of P-RR-S, my power week is more like 1-6 reps. Rep range and shock weeks are 8-12. I don't follow any program 100% as described. I always tweak based on my body and my goals.
thanks for nothing you freaking bums!!! no real advice or replys, sick forum!
Looks alright to me. The only thing I would suggest is replacing and/or supplementing leg curls with another hamstring targeted lift that is more compound. My favorite is SLDLs. Romanian deadlifts are also nice, but I can pull a little more weight when doing SLDLs.
Be sure to change your exercises each cycle.
Be sure to change your exercises each cycle.
