A question on bulking

[Cpt Awesome]

Since I started lifting I've always aimed for a strength based program. Working with heavy weights and working in a way that by the third set I max out at 6 reps. Diet was moderate with a lot of protein but not much more than probably 2500 calories. It was always the sort of, "Hey, I just learned how to eat healthy but I still like fast food so I'm just gonna try my hardest" sort of thing. Now that I've gotten my diet a lot more under control I want to do a bulk to put on some real size.

I understand that the basic principle behind a bulk is that in order to gain weight and more importantly, gain muscle; you have to eat more calories in a day than you burn off. So a bulk has you eating a ton of calories in a day, bust your balls in the gym and then you'll have strong gains.

My question is this: Since the whole point of the diet is to have the calories during the current day for the current workout and gains to follow. Would you be counteracting the whole point of doing a bulk by doing some heavy Cardio in the morning?

My Idea is that since fat loss is best in the morning and you're using your calories more to be there for post workout when your muscles need them, the cardio would be a good way of decreasing however much fat you would gain on your bulk. Is this correct or am I breaking from the main principle here? By burning a bunch of calories right away and also boosting metabolism does it mean I'm just going to have to eat even more later to make up for it?

Hopefully I didn't ramble too much, any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[N_I_C_K]

Since I started lifting I've always aimed for a strength based program. Working with heavy weights and working in a way that by the third set I max out at 6 reps. Diet was moderate with a lot of protein but not much more than probably 2500 calories. It was always the sort of, "Hey, I just learned how to eat healthy but I still like fast food so I'm just gonna try my hardest" sort of thing. Now that I've gotten my diet a lot more under control I want to do a bulk to put on some real size.

I understand that the basic principle behind a bulk is that in order to gain weight and more importantly, gain muscle; you have to eat more calories in a day than you burn off. So a bulk has you eating a ton of calories in a day, bust your balls in the gym and then you'll have strong gains.

My question is this: Since the whole point of the diet is to have the calories during the current day for the current workout and gains to follow. Would you be counteracting the whole point of doing a bulk by doing some heavy Cardio in the morning?

My Idea is that since fat loss is best in the morning and you're using your calories more to be there for post workout when your muscles need them, the cardio would be a good way of decreasing however much fat you would gain on your bulk. Is this correct or am I breaking from the main principle here? By burning a bunch of calories right away and also boosting metabolism does it mean I'm just going to have to eat even more later to make up for it?

Hopefully I didn't ramble too much, any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated, thanks!

Just throwing this out there, make sure you eat breakfast before you do heavy cardio.

Don't know if this is right. I understand what you're saying, but I believe if you do heavy carido in the morning you'll have to make up for those lost calories, regardless. So if your on a 300 calorie surplus and you burn 250 calories from your cardio in the morning your now only on a 50 calorie surplus so you have to make up those 250 calories. Which may seem easy, just make sure its not 'empty' calories.

 

[MDR]

Since I started lifting I've always aimed for a strength based program. Working with heavy weights and working in a way that by the third set I max out at 6 reps. Diet was moderate with a lot of protein but not much more than probably 2500 calories. It was always the sort of, "Hey, I just learned how to eat healthy but I still like fast food so I'm just gonna try my hardest" sort of thing. Now that I've gotten my diet a lot more under control I want to do a bulk to put on some real size.

I understand that the basic principle behind a bulk is that in order to gain weight and more importantly, gain muscle; you have to eat more calories in a day than you burn off. So a bulk has you eating a ton of calories in a day, bust your balls in the gym and then you'll have strong gains.

My question is this: Since the whole point of the diet is to have the calories during the current day for the current workout and gains to follow. Would you be counteracting the whole point of doing a bulk by doing some heavy Cardio in the morning?

My Idea is that since fat loss is best in the morning and you're using your calories more to be there for post workout when your muscles need them, the cardio would be a good way of decreasing however much fat you would gain on your bulk. Is this correct or am I breaking from the main principle here? By burning a bunch of calories right away and also boosting metabolism does it mean I'm just going to have to eat even more later to make up for it?

Hopefully I didn't ramble too much, any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated, thanks!

If I'm bulking-I want to use my energy in the gym to lift. Might do a bit of light cardio, but that's about it.

 

[midwest216]

cardio is out for me, I couldn't run from the couch to the dinner table. But when I get there I'm eatting everything...lol. Eat more than you burn, protein whey, creatine, and lift heavy, and rest.

 

[Cpt Awesome]

To Nick: Ya, I know about the whole "make sure you eat breakfast thing so your metabolism can kick back up for exercise" thing. But ya, thanks for mentioning it all the same, it's a good thing to remember.

It sounds like the general consensus is that: Yes, if you do cardio straight away or at any time you're going to be reducing your calorie surplus and thus reducing your potential gains. I suppose I'll just have to suck it up and wait till after the bulk to lose the fat.

 

[Phineas]

Calories in vs. calories out

Don't refrain from cardio when bulking. It has too many benefits to ignore. Just replace the calories lost. It's simple.

It doesn't matter when you eat your meals or when you do your cardio. How many calories you're consistently taking in over a period will determine if you're anabolic.

Go for a run in the morning. What an average bulker considers to be "cardio" is usually light jogs or some quick time on the ellipitcal. In either you might burn 300 calories. How hard is that to replace? 3 tablespoons of olive oil and you're over that; 2 oz cheddar cheese; some PB; etc...

And, there's much more to diet than protein. The whole protein obsession has gotten ridiculous in people bulking.

Can you post your diet with portion sizes and calories and grams of protein,carbs, fat? Enter into fitday.com and report back to us.

 

[bodyman]

At least 30 minutes of continuous cardiovascular exercise should be done first thing in the morning, before you take your breakfast. Even if you are not a morning person, you should try and get up early for your daily routine. Aerobic exercise before taking breakfast has several benefits such as releasing endorphins, giving you a natural "high" feeling. The body glycogen levels are also low early morning, which help in burning extra fat from the body. Moreover, an intense morning cardio session keeps your metabolism rate elevated for several hours and helps to continue to burn body fat even after the workout session is complete. Make sure you take proteins in the form of protein powder, protein shakes or proteinbars before, during and after your training sessions.

 

[Cpt Awesome]

Hey A lot of great input here. Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to my own thread, I've been reading all of the posts as they get to my phone. Just been very slow at actually responding dues to school and such kicking back up round now.

Ya I'm feeling the big factor to look at here is calories in vs. calories out. But Phineas, you had a real great point of how easy it is to replace those lost calories from cardio. You can probably get a lot of the great cardiovascular benefits from cardio without worrying too much about calories really.

And ya bodyman, I had heard that first thing in the morning you want to eat something real quick but small. Like a piece of fruit just to kick up the metabolism and then you hit up the cardio. Something to do with your metabolism being fastest in the morning?

If you're still interested in seeing a diet plan, I should be able to post one a bit later tonight for anyone that's till looking here. I'll be honest, diet might be a little experimental for my first week here until I get things really figured out.

 

[Phineas]

If you want cardio to be useful -- and not just to burn extra calories -- keep it short and sweet. I don't agree with a lot of people here who say keep it to only sprints. Sprints are great, but some faster-paced steady-state cardio is also very beneficial. Don't go on 45 minute jogs, but 15-20 at a high-intensity 1-3 times a week will do the body plenty good.

Also, while a lot of people say don't worry about the lost calories I disagree. It may not be significant, but especially if you're bulking clean -- that is tracking calories and creating a smaller, more controlled surplus -- the calories lost from the cardio might be enough to bring your daily total near or even below maintenance. Do that a few times a week and suddenly you're shifting in and out of minor catabolism. You might not see muscle loss necessarily, but it will make weight gain less likely.

If I go for a fast-paced 15 minute run, I might add 250-300 calories to my day. Unless you happen to be equipped with certain medical devices, there's no way to know how many calories you burn from cardio. But, you're bulking; you can be more lenient, and even if you end up netting more calories from the cardio compensation food it wouldn't be anything significant. If you burn 200 cals in your run and eat 300 extra you net 100 extra for the daily total. It would take 35 days for those extra calories to amount to 1 pound of fat.