About to do first cycle - is this workout too much?

[kynk]

Hello all, I'll probably start first cycle in 6-8 weeks, and getting down some training info first. How much can I up the training? Right now I'm on 5/3/1 and was wondering if I could double it up so to speak.

Mon - Legs/Shoulder/Bi
Tue - Chest/Back/Tri
Wed - Off
Thur - Legs/Shoulder/Bi
Fri - Chest/Back/Tri
Sat/Sun - Off

Each workout would prob take 1.5 hour + 20ish mins cardio (jump rope mostly) and I'd add weight more than standard 5/3/1 (though not too fast because my joints have been known to be picky)

Info:

I'm 24, 6'2", 190 lbs @ 12% BF (inb4 too young too small....)

First cycle plan

Week
1-12 - 250mg Test-E 2x/week
1-12 - .25mg Arimidex EOD (Will up as needed)
3-12 - 250iu hcg 2x/week
13-14 - 500iu hcg ED for 10 days
15-18 - 50mg clomid ED
15-18 - 20mg Nolvadex ED


All advice on the topic appreciated.

 

[longworthb]

Training doesn't look very good at all. Your going to over train for sure. Try a simple split such as chest tris, back bis, shoulders, legs abs. You hitting the same body parts twice a week and ur not going to give urself a chance to recover. Recovery will be better on cycle but still bro u need rest. Cycle looks good tho seems like u did ur research so props on that. Eat train sleep repeat. Bust ur ass and u will see some good results. How's the diet look? Lift to failure bro

 

[LAM]

You hitting the same body parts twice a week and ur not going to give urself a chance to recover.

that's exactly what you want to do. hit each body part 2x in a 7 day period. anything less and you can forget about stimulating maximum hypertrophy.

 

[longworthb]

I agree blasting the same body part twice a week can be of benefit but if your sore when u go to hit it the second time I switch it up

 

[longworthb]

I've been known to over train because i hate being out of the gym and taking time off but it can also lead to injury and do more harm then good. If on the second day of the same body part u are pretty damn sore try to switch it up bro. Different people respond better to different things. Try it the way u have it set up and if it doesn't work for you then switch it up. Good luck bro and u should see some nice gains from this cycle. Stay motivated and dedicated and hit that shit hard bro

 

[LAM]

if there is still "extreme" soreness when it's time for that 2nd workout then you just decrease your working loads to 50-65% of the 1RM and use it as an active recovery session.

 

[Gissurjon]

If you still need to go online and ask if your program is ok you might not be ready to be using gear anyway, in my humble opinion.

 

[Gissurjon]

Hello all, I'll probably start first cycle in 6-8 weeks, and getting down some training info first. How much can I up the training? Right now I'm on 5/3/1 and was wondering if I could double it up so to speak.

Mon - Legs/Shoulder/Bi
Tue - Chest/Back/Tri
Wed - Off
Thur - Legs/Shoulder/Bi
Fri - Chest/Back/Tri
Sat/Sun - Off

Each workout would prob take 1.5 hour + 20ish mins cardio (jump rope mostly) and I'd add weight more than standard 5/3/1 (though not too fast because my joints have been known to be picky)

Info:

I'm 24, 6'2", 190 lbs @ 12% BF (inb4 too young too small....)

First cycle plan

Week
1-12 - 250mg Test-E 2x/week
1-12 - .25mg Arimidex EOD (Will up as needed)
3-12 - 250iu hcg 2x/week
13-14 - 500iu hcg ED for 10 days
15-18 - 50mg clomid ED
15-18 - 20mg Nolvadex ED


All advice on the topic appreciated.

You don't wanna learn how to gain some muscle naturally first? Make sure you have a solid foundation....

 

[kynk]

Thanks all for the replies. I will try the workout and if I feel over trained I'll go ahead and reduce training/add more deload sessions.

To gissurjon - I do have a foundation, I do know how to put on muscle naturally. I know exactly how many cals (naturally, will experiment on cycle) I need for cut/bulk/maint. If I can *safely* get the muscle faster, I'm going to.

I know what workouts work for me naturally, I have never been on cycle before and don't fully know how much faster recovery is, hence the question. Of course I won't know 100% how fast my recovery is until I do it, but I can get a good idea by asking people, if you think that means I'm not ready...thanks for the input anyway

 

[Z499]

If you still need to go online and ask if your program is ok you might not be ready to be using gear anyway, in my humble opinion.

Fo sho bro

 

[mrbjoiner]

I wouldn't hit each body part 2x a week until u have a good foundation ur not a pro bb yet lol. testosterone is great but I have feeling u watched too many YouTube videos where a doc states ur recovery time is blah blah hours or days. Don't over do it u got plenty of time and a test only cycle is great for starters but still if u gotta come on here and ask then maybe ur not ready

 

[Gissurjon]

Thanks all for the replies. I will try the workout and if I feel over trained I'll go ahead and reduce training/add more deload sessions.

To gissurjon - I do have a foundation, I do know how to put on muscle naturally. I know exactly how many cals (naturally, will experiment on cycle) I need for cut/bulk/maint. If I can *safely* get the muscle faster, I'm going to.

I know what workouts work for me naturally, I have never been on cycle before and don't fully know how much faster recovery is, hence the question. Of course I won't know 100% how fast my recovery is until I do it, but I can get a good idea by asking people, if you think that means I'm not ready...thanks for the input anyway

Yea, I didn't mean to sound like a dick or anything but 6'2, 190 lbs at 24 says you are not ready more than anything. And no you don't know what works for you naturally or you wouldn't weigh 190 lbs at 6'2 and 12 % BF. we are the same height, age, and BF% but 30 lbs difference and I am far from being genetically gifted. Allot of guys use gear the right way, juicing up because you are impatient and don't know what you are doing naturally is dumb though.

It's cool that you believe in yourself and think that you got it figured out but your stats and that split you posted strongly speak to the contrary. If you can't break 200 lbs at 6'2 you haven't figured out sh** yet.

 

[jshredz]

How many years have you been training?
How much gains have you made naturally?
What's your diet looking like?
Are you getting enough calories?

Jshredz

 

[LAM]

I wouldn't hit each body part 2x a week until u have a good foundation ur not a pro bb yet lol.

why not?

in 30 years I've not seen a single person pack on any real amount of muscle hitting each bodypart only 1x a week even with the bests of diets.

 

[Z499]

I hit chest and bi's today and tomorrow is tri's and training a guy on legs

 

[chocolatemalt]

why not?

in 30 years I've not seen a single person pack on any real amount of muscle hitting each bodypart only 1x a week even with the bests of diets.

Do you think Dorian Yates is misleading people with his advice for a 6- or 7-day cycle in his Blood & Guts series? He mentions it first thing in this vid:

Dorian Yates' Blood & Guts Trainer: Dorian's Tips - Bodybuilding.com - YouTube

 

[LAM]

I couldn't find that in the vid that you posted. are you sure it's in that segment of the series?

IFBB pro's have freak genetic profiles and they all use massive amounts of gear, much closer to the side of abuse vs use. I would not recommend following anything but the general diet and/or training routine of any IFBB pro. I know several and have trained a few. I used to train right next to Cutler in Vegas at Gold's for years before his won his first O, nothing spectacular at all about his workouts but when it comes to the diet, he's a fucking machine.

in that vid above from Dorian he gives sound advice especially when talking about the concentric/eccentric phases of bodybuilding movements, he's spot on. the eccentric phase is were the majority of micro-trauma is caused to skeletal muscle. as a matter of fact, all of the info in that vid is spot on. you would be surprised how little some IFBB pro's know about training and nutrition, many of them rely on trainers for all that info. Dorian who was always one of my personal favs definitely seems to know his stuff.

 

[chocolatemalt]

I couldn't find that in the vid that you posted. are you sure it's in that segment of the series?

IFBB pro's have freak genetic profiles and they all use massive amounts of gear, much closer to the side of abuse vs use. I would not recommend following anything but the general diet and/or training routine of any IFBB pro. I know several and have trained a few. I used to train right next to Cutler in Vegas at Gold's for years before his won his first O, nothing spectacular at all about his workouts but when it comes to the diet, he's a fucking machine.

in that vid above from Dorian he gives sound advice especially when talking about the concentric/eccentric phases of bodybuilding movements, he's spot on. the eccentric phase is were the majority of micro-trauma is caused to skeletal muscle. as a matter of fact, all of the info in that vid is spot on. you would be surprised how little some IFBB pro's know about training and nutrition, many of them rely on trainers for all that info. Dorian who was always one of my personal favs definitely seems to know his stuff.

The 6- or 7-day suggestion is at the front of the vid, around the 20-second mark. He says some will need even longer to recover, and avoiding overtraining is key.

This may only be for the intermediate lifters targeted by the Blood & Guts series... I'm sure his own competition schedule was more aggressive, particularly with quicker recovery on anabolics and GH.

 

[kynk]

Been training 1.5 years. Started at 155lbs ~ 14% bf. My maintenance is right about 2750. I eat 95% whole foods. Right now cutting ~4 more lbs, cutting at 2250 cals. 200protein/65-90 fat/rest carbs. I haven't missed a workout in over a year. I have only not counted/met calories/macros 3-4 times in the last year.

Gissu, I understand where you're coming from, however I will maintain, I do think I know my body. I do NOT think I am at my genetic max. I believe I could hit 200 lbs naturally training the same way I have been. I also believe (after months of research), I can hit it faster, safely, on cycle, without penalty. I understand it is optimal to wait until your natural gains have ceased, but my gain has slowed, and I want to pick the up pace.
I know how to do it naturally (well, I think I do), I'm just choosing a different route.

But honestly, I'm not asking for advice on whether or not I'm ready, just on how much is over-training on gear.

Thanks all for the answers, seems to be debatable how much faster the recovery time is. I'll experiment and find out for sure. Thanks all once again

 

[jshredz]

Seems you have already made up your mind, but I'll share ny input anyway.
You have only been training 1.5 therefore you have not trained long enough to know what works for you and what doesn't or what is too much training. You have not developed enough tendon strength.

So my advice is to train the same way you have been training. You will get stronger and put on muscle mass. Again this is just my opinion based on your training experience. Others might chime in with better advice.

Jshredz