Advice on full body routine please

[omerta2010]

Juggernaut, you know the old saying: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

mrchest, at least seriously do the SS program for the training, and wish you luck to attain your goals.

 

[mrchest]

LOL i want to do the program but i dont see why i need to cut before hand, i dont want to look skinny! im considered slim i dont want to be all skinny and horrible, i want to bulk then cut

 

[Anabolic5150]

LOL i want to do the program but i dont see why i need to cut before hand, i dont want to look skinny! im considered slim i dont want to be all skinny and horrible, i want to bulk then cut

I've read this whole thread and I feel like I need to comment.

mrchest, you asked for advice, juggernaut and others chimed in and offered what I feel was good, solid advice. But because it was not what you wanted to hear, you disagreed or attempted to counter it with faulty logic. So now you are on your own. Juggernaut is a great resource here, he offered assistance and you refused to take it. Do whatever you want to do, however you want to do it. But I fear that in your case, any further help is going to be a long time coming. Good luck to you.

 

[mrchest]

iv taken the advice about the program which is the most important thing surely. like i said can someone explain to me why i need to cut before hand why is it so necessary to this program i already am slim i dont want to be skinny if i loose any more weight then what i am i look horrible maybe i underestimated my body fat but im not fat im slim and i certainly do not want to be skinny looking!

 

[cshea2]

How about posting up a pic. I was thrown off because in your original post you said you were 16% bf, now you say your slim.

 

[Built]

iv taken the advice about the program which is the most important thing surely. like i said can someone explain to me why i need to cut before hand why is it so necessary to this program i already am slim i dont want to be skinny if i loose any more weight then what i am i look horrible maybe i underestimated my body fat but im not fat im slim and i certainly do not want to be skinny looking!

Hold up everybody, mrchest is asking a reasonable question - it's easy to forget this isn't common knowledge outside of physical culture.

mrchest, the reason juggs suggests cutting first is because the fatter you get, the worse you partition. As you become fatter, your insulin resistance increases and you get less fuel into your muscles. Also, aromatase expression increases, which means more of your testosterone is converted to estrogen. Yanno, the stuff that gives women boobs and hips? Yeah, that stuff.

You don't need or want to get ripped to the bone, but cut down a little, let your weight stabilize at whatever your maintenance calories turn out to be, and then ramp up your training volume a bit while you increase the calories.

While you drop some bodyfat, just focus as you have been told on the heavy compounds. Keep doing this as you move into a maintenance phase for say a few weeks or a month, and then as you ramp up your calories, you can consider tossing in some arm work if you find it helpful - some of us do seem to need a little bit of attention there - but you might be surprised at how little. Lately, I've been tossing in some tricep work on back days, and bicep work on pushing days. Seems to be helping me quite a bit, and without ever doing more than a few sets of arm work on any given day.

Does this help?

 

[mrchest]

it explains why it was suggested that i cut, I measured out my bf percentage and yes i am around 16% but this surely cant be classified as fat, im happy with the weight i am now untill i bulk then cut i used to be really skinny because i forced myself to loose a lot of weight and i comments from everyone saying i was far far to skinny and i did look "unhealthy" so i put on about a stone and a half and i am happy with that.

However, just because you have a bit of meat on you doesnt mean that you wont put on loads of muscle mass, i no tons of rugby players that are fat as a house, strong as an ox and bloody big in both ways and look at lots of strong men and powerlifters a lot of them are really fat and their still big and strong. Dont you think some of you guys are looking far too much into the fact im not skinny and have a bit of meat around me, so in essance an y program i run will be doomed to failure and wont get bigger or increase lean mass because i have a little bit of meat on me , i wear close and you cant tell i have a bit of fat on me at all, my gut does not stick out or anything. im slim man lol you dont have to be skinny to be considered "slim"

 

[juggernaut]

This thread is now an exercise in futility.

 

[mrchest]

right of course because anyone who has a body fat percentage of 16% and above wont gain quality muscle

 

[trapzilla]

right of course because anyone who has a body fat percentage of 16% and above wont gain quality muscle

thats not the point the guys and Built are trying to make to you. it is suggested you get down to a lower bf% before you bulk as it is easier to grow and manage your fat levels at a lower % than what you are currently it has nothing to do with looking skinny or being slim 16% is 16%.

Do as Built's suggested and just drop a couple of % it won't take long and then allow yourself to grow.

It will be more rewarding as you train to see the muscle grow as opposed to just the limb if you get me?

but this does seem a bit like

 

[mrchest]

yh okay i understand its easier to manage fat levels at a lower body fat percentage but i feel confident in my own ability to sort out any diet issues with regards to bulking and not putting on too much fat.

I want your guys help of cours but your way cant be the only way, i dont want to lose anymore weight because i dont like the look of it. Its one thing to lower body fat percentage and have a solid base of muscle but if i dont have a good solid base of muscle then fopr me personally i dont like it

il cut when i bulk thats my choice but just because i dont follow one way of doing it doesnt mean im wrong or your wrong for that matter. i just want to bulk for now LOL then cut thats the way i want to do it

 

[lincoln]

Reading through this thread gave me an idea. From the sounds of it I have a very similar body type and lifting experience as the original poster. juggernaut, I'm willing to take any advice you give me. the original poster can do it his way and as the guinea pig I'll do it juggernaut's way - and we'll come back and compare progress

juggernaut, if this sounds good let me know and I'll start a training log thread with any info you need to get started

 

[Gazhole]

yh okay i understand its easier to manage fat levels at a lower body fat percentage but i feel confident in my own ability to sort out any diet issues with regards to bulking and not putting on too much fat.

I want your guys help of cours but your way cant be the only way, i dont want to lose anymore weight because i dont like the look of it. Its one thing to lower body fat percentage and have a solid base of muscle but if i dont have a good solid base of muscle then fopr me personally i dont like it

il cut when i bulk thats my choice but just because i dont follow one way of doing it doesnt mean im wrong or your wrong for that matter. i just want to bulk for now LOL then cut thats the way i want to do it

Your way will require you to cut more fat at the end of your bulking cycle. This will either take longer, or require you to cut more aggressively. Both of those things have a higher chance of you losing more muscle than you'd like during the cut.

Juggernaut + Builts way (read: the right way) will have you cutting a bit at the start and a bit at the end rather than a lot at the end, maximising muscle gain during the bulk and minimising muscle loss during the final cut because you'll end up with less fat to cut.

This makes perfect sense even without the science that Built touched on in terms of partitioning and aromatase activity. Don't be a retard, and do it properly. Yes - you will get smaller at first but who the fuck cares since you'll be immediately bulking afterwards?

Are you that petrified of losing half an inch off your guns for 6 weeks? Who else but you is going to notice? Why does it even bother YOU when YOU know you'll end up bigger and more ripped in the end if you do this correctly? Wear a goddamn longsleeve top for a month if it bothers you so much.

 

[juggernaut]

Reading through this thread gave me an idea. From the sounds of it I have a very similar body type and lifting experience as the original poster. juggernaut, I'm willing to take any advice you give me. the original poster can do it his way and as the guinea pig I'll do it juggernaut's way - and we'll come back and compare progress

juggernaut, if this sounds good let me know and I'll start a training log thread with any info you need to get started

Done. Check your inbox.

 

[saff]

sensible advice gashole given from a different perspective...come on mrchest, you're making us uk boys look silly here. lol

 

[juggernaut]

Your way will require you to cut more fat at the end of your bulking cycle. This will either take longer, or require you to cut more aggressively. Both of those things have a higher chance of you losing more muscle than you'd like during the cut.

Juggernaut + Builts way (read: the right way) will have you cutting a bit at the start and a bit at the end rather than a lot at the end, maximising muscle gain during the bulk and minimising muscle loss during the final cut because you'll end up with less fat to cut.

This makes perfect sense even without the science that Built touched on in terms of partitioning and aromatase activity. Don't be a retard, and do it properly. Yes - you will get smaller at first but who the fuck cares since you'll be immediately bulking afterwards?

Are you that petrified of losing half an inch off your guns for 6 weeks? Who else but you is going to notice? Why does it even bother YOU when YOU know you'll end up bigger and more ripped in the end if you do this correctly? Wear a goddamn longsleeve top for a month if it bothers you so much.

wurd.

 

[lincoln]

Done. Check your inbox.

BOOM

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/online-journals/132096-lincolns-guinea-pig-log.html#post2335632

 

[Built]

Reading through this thread gave me an idea. From the sounds of it I have a very similar body type and lifting experience as the original poster. juggernaut, I'm willing to take any advice you give me. the original poster can do it his way and as the guinea pig I'll do it juggernaut's way - and we'll come back and compare progress

juggernaut, if this sounds good let me know and I'll start a training log thread with any info you need to get started

Done. Check your inbox.

Props to you both - it's great that this thread wasn't a waste of good advice.

 

[juggernaut]

BOOM

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/online-journals/132096-lincolns-guinea-pig-log.html#post2335632

yeah buddaaay we got some growing to do!

 

[JennyB]

LOL i want to do the program but i dont see why i need to cut before hand, i dont want to look skinny! im considered slim i dont want to be all skinny and horrible, i want to bulk then cut

iv taken the advice about the program which is the most important thing surely. like i said can someone explain to me why i need to cut before hand why is it so necessary to this program i already am slim i dont want to be skinny if i loose any more weight then what i am i look horrible maybe i underestimated my body fat but im not fat im slim and i certainly do not want to be skinny looking!

it explains why it was suggested that i cut, I measured out my bf percentage and yes i am around 16% but this surely cant be classified as fat, im happy with the weight i am now untill i bulk then cut i used to be really skinny because i forced myself to loose a lot of weight and i comments from everyone saying i was far far to skinny and i did look "unhealthy" so i put on about a stone and a half and i am happy with that.

However, just because you have a bit of meat on you doesnt mean that you wont put on loads of muscle mass, i no tons of rugby players that are fat as a house, strong as an ox and bloody big in both ways and look at lots of strong men and powerlifters a lot of them are really fat and their still big and strong. Dont you think some of you guys are looking far too much into the fact im not skinny and have a bit of meat around me, so in essance an y program i run will be doomed to failure and wont get bigger or increase lean mass because i have a little bit of meat on me , i wear close and you cant tell i have a bit of fat on me at all, my gut does not stick out or anything. im slim man lol you dont have to be skinny to be considered "slim"

yh okay i understand its easier to manage fat levels at a lower body fat percentage but i feel confident in my own ability to sort out any diet issues with regards to bulking and not putting on too much fat.

I want your guys help of cours but your way cant be the only way, i dont want to lose anymore weight because i dont like the look of it. Its one thing to lower body fat percentage and have a solid base of muscle but if i dont have a good solid base of muscle then fopr me personally i dont like it

il cut when i bulk thats my choice but just because i dont follow one way of doing it doesnt mean im wrong or your wrong for that matter. i just want to bulk for now LOL then cut thats the way i want to do it

I would have to agree in that you gave up a wicked opportunity to GROW and learn from Jugs and Built BUT it sounds like your stubborn ways may get you to where you want to go.

FYI do some research on the maximum number of lbs you are able to gain without using steroids in one year. It will surprise you. Cutting now versus cutting once your done bulking is a bad idea in my opinion as well. The more cutting you need to do once you have bulked will most likely lead you to loose the few lbs of muscle you have worked your ass off to put on. So basically you have choosen to work harder rather than smarter.

We are all tough and strong in our opinions because we are proof in the pudding and have more than 60 years experience between us! That is a lot compared to your one year .. dont you think?

With that being said there are hundreds of people waiting to listen and learn and not take the easy way out and grow from the process.

Sure there may be another way .. its called old school get fat bodybuilding method and then work your ass off (sometimes literally) until you cut. When you cut you will realize the same "skinny" kid is left.

Some people misunterpret what "cutting" and "bulking" actually means. I hope that your idea of bulking isnt eating like a pig and drinking to gain. I just had to put that out there because a lot of people think that is what bulking is all about.

On the topic of looking "skinny" when you cut. You actually tend to APPEAR bigger because you look more cut. I am pretty sure no one wants you to drop to 8% at your weight ... but cutting down to at least 12% would be wise. But again you seem to be stuck in your ways ... without the experience, knowledge and years behind it.

All the best.

 

[juggernaut]

Jenny...YouTube - ‪You Complete Me‬‏