Any exceptions on how often to train?

[dcsenger]

I have been working out hard and extremely dedicated for around 7 months now. I run by a very strict diet taking vitamins and a lot of B-12. I get the right amount of protein and everything. Now my question is that I don't seem to be seeing very good gains in my chest. I space my hands properly and I don't over train it. I do between 10-12 sets each time I work it and only work it every 72 hours. Each time I hit the gym I try to very my exercises but still limiting it to <12 sets. I was wondering if theres anything I can do to see better gains? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Machher]

lower it to <6 sets and <6 reps per set. Use a higher weight. Train each bodypart once a week.

 

[DOMS]

I've tried a simple technique that last three weeks that's seen some good results for my chest (and other body parts). Limit the amount of time between sets. What is your current amount of time between sets?

 

[dcsenger]

I normally wait about 1 min in between sets.

 

[seth042280]

but really wouldnt it come down to the individual on how to often to train. I hear some poeple talk about every 3 days and others say once a week . I just started something where I wait 5 days if I target the legs on monday then I work them again on saturday .

 

[crazy_enough]

I dunnop how many reps u do on each set and how heavy ur going, but with 12 sets, if u train heavy enough, u could try hitting it once a week for a while...The extra rest might be the edge u need to break thru...

 

[DOMS]

I normally wait about 1 min in between sets.

How long have you been doing one minute rests between sets?
How long is your rest between exercises?
How many exercises, sets, and reps do you do?

 

[Musclebeach]

If you have been working chest every three days, dont go to working it once a week. Since your eating right and such your chest will be able to handle training twice a week, enless you were doing true HIT.

Just my opinion.

Oh and how old are you? Or did I miss that?

-Jeff.

 

[dcsenger]

I've been doing one minute rests for about 7 months. I normally rest for 3 min between exercises. I try to get on my next exercise as soon as possible. I normally do 3 or 4 exercises for my chest. If I do 3 exercises I do 4 sets of each exercise. If I do 4 different exercises I do only 3 sets of each exercise. I'm 20yrs old if that helps at all. Also lately I have tried to change the exercises every time I go to the gym (EXB Flat bench, DB Incline & Decline one day then the next day I do chest I do cables instead of 2 exercises or replacing the DB's with BB's. Again thanks for the help.

 

[myCATpowerlifts]

I've been doing one minute rests for about 7 months. I normally rest for 3 min between exercises. I try to get on my next exercise as soon as possible. I normally do 3 or 4 exercises for my chest. If I do 3 exercises I do 4 sets of each exercise. If I do 4 different exercises I do only 3 sets of each exercise. I'm 20yrs old if that helps at all. Also lately I have tried to change the exercises every time I go to the gym (EXB Flat bench, DB Incline & Decline one day then the next day I do chest I do cables instead of 2 exercises or replacing the DB's with BB's. Again thanks for the help.

sounds pretty solid, but try decreasing workouts from once every 3 days to once every 5

try that for a few weeks and i bet you'll notice a difference

 

[DOMS]

I've been doing one minute rests for about 7 months. I normally rest for 3 min between exercises. I try to get on my next exercise as soon as possible. I normally do 3 or 4 exercises for my chest. If I do 3 exercises I do 4 sets of each exercise. If I do 4 different exercises I do only 3 sets of each exercise. I'm 20yrs old if that helps at all. Also lately I have tried to change the exercises every time I go to the gym (EXB Flat bench, DB Incline & Decline one day then the next day I do chest I do cables instead of 2 exercises or replacing the DB's with BB's. Again thanks for the help.

I about to start a "program" to increase the intensity of my workouts. With the exception of the squat, deadlift, and military press, I'm going to decrease my rest time between sets by 5 seconds each week for eight weeks. That will take me from my current 1 minute (like you) down to 40 seconds. That's my play anyway.

 

[Duncans Donuts]

With the exception of the squat, deadlift, and military press,

Why are you excluding these...

 

[CowPimp]

Just experiment. Increase the intensity and lower the volume. Try training the chest once per week, or try training it 3 times per week with less volume. Try different rep ranges. Just try stuff... Also, make sure your diet is actually as good as you think it is. Most of the time when people think they are eating right, they aren't.

 

[Yanick]

Also, make sure your diet is actually as good as you think it is. Most of the time when people think they are eating right, they aren't.

write down everything you eat in a typical day, then sit down with a macro/kcal chart and figure out exactly how much of what you are getting.

for example, even though i've been living a BB lifestyle for the better part of 4 years or so (on and off but always with a BB mentality) the last time i started really dieting i just started eating 6-7x/day gettin P/C/F at every meal etc thinking that i was fine. Then when i sat down and really figured out how much i was eating it was like 2k cal, thats what fat couch potato women eat daily. so make sure your diet is good.

 

[DOMS]

Why are you excluding these...

Mudge, in another thread, seem to indicate that he did not decrease the time of the first two exercises of a body part (perhaps workout?) and did decrease the resting time for the following three exercises.

Mudge does (at least) five exercises while I only do three. I'm pretty easy going about altering a plan or idea to fit my routine instead of changing my routine to meet the new idea or plan. In this case, I could have increased my exercises to five so that I could match Mudge's example, but instead I opted to decrease my resting period on all of me exercises except the 'core' exercises such as Bench Press, Deadlift, and Squat.

If there is a flaw in my logic or an obvious way to do it better, I'd like to hear your advice.

Thanks.

 

[Yanick]

Mudge, in another thread, seem to indicate that he did not decrease the time of the first two exercises of a body part (perhaps workout?) and did decrease the resting time for the following three exercises.

Mudge does (at least) five exercises while I only do three. I'm pretty easy going about altering a plan or idea to fit my routine instead of changing my routine to meet the new idea or plan. In this case, I could have increased my exercises to five so that I could match Mudge's example, but instead I opted to decrease my resting period on all of me exercises except the 'core' exercises such as Bench Press, Deadlift, and Squat.

If there is a flaw in my logic or an obvious way to do it better, I'd like to hear your advice.

Thanks.

you can do it either way really, unless you are looking for a strength aspect in your routine then you should definitely keep RI's higher in your 'main' lifts.

 

[Mudge]

10-12 sets every 72 hours is not overtraining? Which steroids are you on?

Chest is not a large muscle group.

 

[Duncans Donuts]

Mudge does (at least) five exercises while I only do three. I'm pretty easy going about altering a plan or idea to fit my routine instead of changing my routine to meet the new idea or plan. In this case, I could have increased my exercises to five so that I could match Mudge's example, but instead I opted to decrease my resting period on all of me exercises except the 'core' exercises such as Bench Press, Deadlift, and Squat.

Depending on your objectives, I suppose, it might be considered simply preference. It does seem somewhat inconsistent. For example, I am currently taking various rest intervals between actual exercise (based on the demanding nature of the exercise, i.e. squats being more demanding than barbell curls) but keep strict coordination of actual time between each sets (e.g. 1 minute between 3 sets, or 45 seconds between 2 sets, etc.)

This seems to be what you are doing, too. Not doing the same thing for these primary movers doesn't make sense to me...also,

I about to start a "program" to increase the intensity of my workouts

Technically speaking the program would increase demands, not intensity.

 

[JoeR.]

10-12 sets every 72 hours is not overtraining? Which steroids are you on?

Chest is not a large muscle group.

Thats the first thing I noticed. 20-24 sets for chest?

 

[DOMS]

Depending on your objectives, I suppose, it might be considered simply preference. It does seem somewhat inconsistent. For example, I am currently taking various rest intervals between actual exercise (based on the demanding nature of the exercise, i.e. squats being more demanding than barbell curls) but keep strict coordination of actual time between each sets (e.g. 1 minute between 3 sets, or 45 seconds between 2 sets, etc.)

This seems to be what you are doing, too. Not doing the same thing for these primary movers doesn't make sense to me...also,


Technically speaking the program would increase demands, not intensity.

OK, since I trust you, I'll drop the rest interval for all excerises.

I'll also try different rest intervals for different exercises. I've been using a minute rest period for all exercises to date.

As for demand versus intensity, I'm still unclear on the differences. Could you either provide some detail yourself or point me to a website that can?

Thanks.

 

[dcsenger]

So all of you recommend cutting down to only 10-12 sets a week? I'm not saying that I am over training or that I'm not. When i researched the topic it seemed that some people said that every 72 hours is a good rest period and others said a week is better. I was just wondering what is best for chest? If I'm reading right i should limit myself to 10-12 sets a week. Is this Correct?

 

[DOMS]

So all of you recommend cutting down to only 10-12 sets a week? I'm not saying that I am over training or that I'm not. When i researched the topic it seemed that some people said that every 72 hours is a good rest period and others said a week is better. I was just wondering what is best for chest? If I'm reading right i should limit myself to 10-12 sets a week. Is this Correct?

Try it. What can it hurt? I only do 9 sets for pecs each week and I've seen some good growth. If dropping that low bothers you, try doing a dropset on one of those exercises. I did a dropset of flies and the pump and pain was outrageous. Also, you can simply start by dropping your rest period down from one minute to 30 seconds.

 

[Duncans Donuts]

I'm not necessarily demeaning the rest intervals between each exercises; indeed, that is a great way to INCREASE demands (demands being work output per unit time, amount of muscle inroading- instead of intensity, which is defined by most as physical exertion relative to capacity at the moment; in that regard, 100 percent intensity can not be exceeded, so if one were to train at 100 percent intensity it would be obvious that they could subsequently further increase to 101% - that's impossible), although the weight being used will likely be lower.

Perhaps I misspoke. It would make sense to me that all potential variations have value, though relative to the individual, in varying degrees. This means that if you have rest intervals between each exercise, and the sets, that is a good way to increase demands. The same can be said for not using timed rest intervals between each exercise, but exclusively between sets. Either method is probably a good way to avoid biological homeostasis in a system that adapts very quickly and very specifically to stress.

However, for progress to be tracked affectively, there needs to be at least one constant among the variations. This can be anything, but remember that related affects (such as fatigue from timing rest intervals at a rate, e.g. one minute, will influence the amount of weight used) may render it difficult to track progress based solely on certain variables, such as the load and reps performed, unless REST INTERVALS ARE THE SAME EVERY WEEK (a constant). Essentially, the best way to gauge actual progress would be as follows:

Two set training
Reps: 8 reps (3/3 cadence)
Load: 100 pounds

Rest Interval: 1 minute

Reps: 6 reps (3/3 cadence)
Load: 100 pounds
-
Now assume at the next workout you performed the following workout:

Reps: 11 reps (3/3 cadence)
Load: 100 pounds

Rest Interval: 1 minute

Reps: 8 reps (3/3 cadence)
Load: 100 pounds
-

We now can be absolutely certain that progress was made, because results were achieved through identical (at least according to values we can control) means. Now assume that, instead of timing the rest intervals and not tracking cadence (3 seconds up 3 seconds down), this following workout was performed:


Reps: 9 reps (no set cadence, rest pause on last rep)
Load: 100 pounds

Rest Interval: 4 minute

Reps: 8 reps (no set cadence, rest pause on last 2 reps)
Load: 100 pounds
-

Reps: 10 reps (no set cadence, rest pause on last two reps)
Load: 100 pounds

Rest Interval: 8 minute

Reps: 7 reps (no set cadence, rest pause on last rep)
Load: 100 pounds

Clearly, progress potentially has been made, but biomechanical factors (like locking the joints and removing tension) and physical energy replenishment (rest intervals diverse in their quality) might have stunted progress because, while more work was performed, the exercise becomes less demanding. Or, perhaps, no positive or nevative changes occured in the system. The point is it's impossible to tell affirmatively.

Another way to track progress would to have the load, reps and/or TUT constant (as I believe P-Funk does) and improve rest intervals (e.g. improve by 5 seconds every week). The point of this convoluted diatribe is simply that progressive overload isn't exclusively related to the load being moved, time under muscular tension, or repetitions performed; it can also be related to the physical work (force generated to cause displacement) or metabolic work (energy expended) divided by the time.

 

[DOMS]

I'm starting to understand. Thanks for the help.

I've been a freak about recording my workout on paper thus far. How does this new one look?

 

[Duncans Donuts]

5 sets is a whole lot

 

[DOMS]

The table will simply repeat on both side of a piece of paper. I put 5 sets because I've never done more than 5 sets of anything. The only exercise that I do five sets of is calves (three time a week).

 

[LAM]

So all of you recommend cutting down to only 10-12 sets a week? I'm not saying that I am over training or that I'm not. When i researched the topic it seemed that some people said that every 72 hours is a good rest period and others said a week is better. I was just wondering what is best for chest? If I'm reading right i should limit myself to 10-12 sets a week. Is this Correct?

10-12 working sets should be plenty. personally I don't count warm up sets or any sets were I use loads that are less than 60% or my 1RM

 

[ALBOB]

So all of you recommend cutting down to only 10-12 sets a week? I'm not saying that I am over training or that I'm not. When i researched the topic it seemed that some people said that every 72 hours is a good rest period and others said a week is better. I was just wondering what is best for chest? If I'm reading right i should limit myself to 10-12 sets a week. Is this Correct?

What you need to stop and understand is that overtraining is different for everyone. 100 sets every other day may be just fine for you. It would bury most of us humans though. What all the suggestions you've received so far have been saying is that you have to experiment. Your objective EVERY time you walk in the gym is to be stronger than the last time you were in the gym. If you improve by a single rep, any extra weight, whatever; it means you got stronger. If you're NOT getting stronger then you have to find out why. Based on your current workout the logical reason would be that you're not giving your chest enough time to recover and get stronger; overtraining. You also, as was mentioned, need to take a close look at your diet. When it comes to growing bigger and stronger diet comes FIRST, training is second. You mentioned that you're getting the right amount of protein. Says who? What's right for someone else may not be right for you. Yes, the general rule of thumb to build muslce is to consume 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight every day. That may not be enough for you. Experiment and find out.

Now, on to a different subject. I've read most of the posts about decreasing time between sets. When building size and strength, why would you want to do that? I can see how it would increase cardio capability but, how does it increase anerobic ability? I've always been under the impression that you should take as much time as you need between working sets so that you can give the next set 100% effort without having your cardio-vascular system give out before the working muscle.

 

[Duncans Donuts]

When it comes to growing bigger and stronger diet comes FIRST, training is second.

Training always has to come first, because without the stimulus there can be no response. Eating to get big without the stimulus to provide growth will make one fatter.

I've read most of the posts about decreasing time between sets. When building size and strength, why would you want to do that? I can see how it would increase cardio capability but, how does it increase anerobic ability?

Because it is a function of progressive overload. Assume you work at 100 percent intensity during a 2 set, 1 exercise training method with one minute rest intervals between the set. Now assume you perform 8 reps the first set, and 5 reps the second set. Both times you trained to anaerobic fatigue. The rest interval is merely a way of tracking increased or decreased (adjusted, rather) demands.

 

[Duncans Donuts]

When building size and strength, why would you want to do that?

I wouldn't use this method if I were attempting to inrease "strength" (at least in terms of establishing "strength" in a certain exercise; e.g. a bench press), but it is a potentially adequate variation to instigate biological shifts away from homeostasis (wherein it takes a rather "shocking" shift from common conditions to imply such a change) - hence, such techniques can be beneficial for "mass".