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Banned Exercises ?

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That is not Ronnie Coleman's workout, despite what many publications (funded by supp companies of course) would have you believe.

Ronnie Coleman lifts using an extremely high volume Westside routine. I assume the volume is what it is because of the amount of drugs in his body.

And science would say that science doesn't lie. Let's look at one particular science (physiology) and the resulting studies done by Mel Siff and company. When this science is applied, what are the results? Every single elite level powerlifter on the planet and the pinnacle of bodybuilding, Ronnie Coleman. :)
 
Originally posted by Quadsweep
How big does the circumference of my thigh has to be before I am entitled to question Colemans training methods? I have not seen your pictures. Frankly, I don't care much about what you look like. (but I do wonder why Prince crop his avatar like that?)
Click to expand...

If you're not too lazy you can click on the little link under his post thats says gallery and you can see pics from his most recent competition :thumb:
 
Originally posted by Quadsweep
I have not seen your pictures. Frankly, I don't care much about what you look like. (but I do wonder why Prince crop his avatar like that?)
Click to expand...

It takes a genius to click on my pic gallery icon.

I cropped the pic so it would fit as an avatar. :wtf:


Some of My Pics: (April 3, 2004)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1367&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1366&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1355&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1354&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1352&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=2

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1353&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=2
 
My only problem with these statements is that you shouldn't "ban" any exercise from your routine. You should use a very wide variety of lifts. Just because one lift is not the best means nothing. If you stick with the same lifts just because they are considered the "best" then you will never get anywhere.

Declaring the bench press worthless for chest is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard. Just because it hits shoulders and triceps doesn't mean the chest doesn't do a lot of work. There are plenty of other lifts that people use for one purpose that server others (Deadlifts for example are done for the back, but the legs certainly do quite a bit of work). In addition, I would like to see the form the person used when they tested that. Very few people understand proper bench press form.
 
Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Proper in what sense?
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Very few people arch their back and pull their shoulder blades in when they bench press. They lie flat on the bench and push up, which is wrong.
 
I think the only thing that I agree on about that site is what he stated about the straight bar curls....
 
Well OD, since you are so open minded, why don't you go to his website and order his 'program' with all of these startling revelations for a mere $25? The article about why the bench press is bogus appeared in the Feb issue of Natural Bodybuilding, I'm sure you can get back issues.

I honestly think you'll find nothing new, just someone trying to make a buck promising easily obtainable muscular gains. Guys like this have been around since the days of Charles Atlas...



Originally posted by OceanDude
Well, I for one am willing to listen to alternative exercises when the science seems to suggest that the conventional wisdom is not as effective as we think. I keep having to ask how many other people out there could have had much better results if they were more effective with their technique and exercise. For every Ronnie Coleman there are probably 10,000 or so other young men and women who have dropped out due to injury or frustrated results. For most of us that are not %100 professional body builders and still slug it out in the gym routinely and that have other obligations I am personally all for getting more stimulus for less time in the gym. Just wish someone would take the bait and find out what the author is proposing as alternatives and let the rest of us know before we commit real for-gosh money to it. :hehe: Wait, a sec??? I can afford to pay real for-gosh money. Why am I worried about spending a few bucks for? Hmm, I am thinking that a lot of us in BB have a tendency to be cheapskates when we would rather put down $50 bucks to try a totally bogus product like NO2 but hesitate to put down $20 bucks to read a few new ideas. And this is coming from a traditionalist guys. Shame on you others.


-OD
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by JerseyDevil
... Guys like this have been around since the days of Charles Atlas...
Click to expand...

Don't tell me that Atlas's "Bull Twist Thingie" he use to sell when I was a kid didn't work for you? I think it cost like $10. Heck, I'm probably more buff looking than Atlas anyway and so are 80% of most gym-heads currently working out. I just want to make sure I am not gonna end up looking like Ronnie by accident by doing his routines...

:rofl: :funny:


-OD
 
Originally posted by OceanDude
I think it cost like $10. Heck, I'm probably more buff looking than Atlas anyway and so are 80% of most gym-heads currently working out.
Click to expand...

yeah, but wasn't that $10 back in the 1940's or 50's?

how much would that be in today's dollars? $100? :p
 
I agree JD, OD should spot the $25 and break it down for us... any good information in there or is it just a big dud like most of us think it is.

Since you volunteered... :p
 
Bah, you buys your tickee and youz takes yer chances...

No free info for jou!

-OD
 
Prince: Nice upper body :thumb:

However, please crop your pictures. It leaves a better impression. Too much of leg extensions and lunges. You asked for it by posting your pics.


On the more serious side, I never got any explanation why Lunges work wonders?

The Lunge is in every aspect infererior compared to the mighty squat and humble leg press. Lunges is a waste of ammo.

Is it the "I feel it syndrome"?





OceanDude:
I just want to make sure I am not gonna end up looking like Ronnie by accident by doing his routines...
Click to expand...
Stay clear of roids :D

I also think bench press is just fine. Maybe he wants to sell us the idea of doing some kind of a low pulley cable combined flye and press???

"While it is true that people like Arnold and Ronnie have had phenomenal success in applying the "old school" exercises (which I too have embraced) we will never know how many other men and women could have exceeded or matched their physical achievement if they had not become injured at an early age and dropped out."
Click to expand...

True, bodybuilding is 95% genetics. Genetics that allows you to lift unbelieveable amount of weight in the most stupidious ways without getting injured.

Yesterday, I visited a clinic for physiotherapy and rehabilitation of paralyzed and quadriplegic patients. The will power and effort exerted by those patients made Ronnie Coleman and his "unbelievable" pale in comparison. To some extent it all comes down to what you've got.
 
Originally posted by Quadsweep
On the more serious side, I never got any explanation why Lunges work wonders?

The Lunge is in every aspect infererior compared to the mighty squat and humble leg press. Lunges is a waste of ammo.

Is it the "I feel it syndrome"?
Click to expand...

I don't think lunges work wonders. However, I do feel that they are a useful exercise. They are especially useful for me because I workout at home so my range of exercises is limited, particularly for my back and legs.

For me, it's the "I saw strength/size gains syndrome."
 
Guess I never addressed lunges...

Lunges are okay, I do them about every 3rd or 4th leg work-out for something different, my main focus is squats and leg press. I do not like to do lunges often due to the glute emphasis, my ass is already big enough from deep squats! :)

Honestly, I am not real fond of any single leg exercise, in fact lunges would be the only leg exercise I do that is single leg and like I said I do not even do them very often.

I only brought up Ronnie doing lunges because I read that he was quite fond of them, and I was being sarcastic as far as the author of that article telling Ronnie that lunges are a waste of time.

If anyone asks me what they should do for big legs my answer is always the same: Free weight barbell squats, the deeper and heavier the better!
 
Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
I have not read all of it, but I was reading what he said about lunges, and I would like for him to tell Ronnie Coleman what a waste of time lunges are. :)
Click to expand...

:thumbup:
 
Originally posted by OceanDude
Bah, you buys your tickee and youz takes yer chances...

No free info for jou!

-OD
Click to expand...

Pretty please with protein on top?
 
Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
I heard that Ronnie likes to walk across the gym parking lot doing dumbbell lunges, what a waste of time, huh?
Click to expand...

no no no!

he only uses 185 on a barbell.

i don't know the whole premise behind all this argueing, but lunges DO work.
 
i don't know the whole premise behind all this argueing, but lunges DO work!
Click to expand...
he only uses 185 on a barbell
Click to expand...
Ok now I am convinced....

Never take any advice from an IFBB pro. You might end up doing lunges in a parkin lot with dumbells weighing 40-45 pounds :headbang:

What Cutler has to say about Lunges:

"I do these year-???round, because they allow me to develop a lot of detail :headbang: in the off-season," says Jay "Most pros will limit lunges to the time they???re preparing for a big contest." Jay uses dumbbells that weigh 40-45 pounds :headbang: in each hand, and his lunges see him take a step with one leg, return to the starting position, and then do the same with the opposite leg. "I???m not real big on walking lunges, for 2 reasons," says the Night of Champions winner: "It???s far more difficult to keep your chest erect and your head up, which is essential to the movement, and you???re constantly having to make sure you have clear sailing ahead, or you have to stop your forward movement." Some fast calculating confirms his concerns: Jay does 9-11 reps. At 30" of forward movement per lunge, that would work out to 90 to 110 feet of needed clear straight-ahead runway.
Click to expand...

Massive Quads with jay cutler

Try to do this. Do lunges and legextension only for a period of time and watch how your legs atrophy at the speed of light. :)
 
The author wasn't saying that these exercises don't work, only that they were a waste of time. I think he used the wrong terminology and meant to put that they are a less efficent use of time.

Also, he put that whole graph on the chest portion but failed to put an accompanying graph of another exercise for perspective. First off, who the hell puts up a graph without a scale. Is the y-axis percent recruitment, wattage, etc. Sure, according to that graph it would seem that the chest is not used much in certain portions of the lift, but where is the graph of the movement he recommends for comparison. You wouldn't choose between 2 cars having only seen the specs on one of them.

Let me ask a question, what exercises generally elicit the greatest training response? The multi-joint ones (Squat, Deadlift) that work multiple muscles. He is equating how isolated a movement is to the growth response associated with it. I imagine he recommmends some sort of flye or crossover movement since that would more isolate the pec. You can work on that and see how big you get, I will continue with the multi-joint movements.

Also, his description of the Bench press and overhead shoulder press being the same is absurd, they are in completely different planes. It would be like saying the Lat pulldown and Barbell row are exactly the same. I would love to see a graph showing these exercises to be exactly the same, but it ain't gonna happen.
 
Originally posted by Quadsweep
What Cutler has to say about Lunges:

Massive Quads with jay cutler

Try to do this. Do lunges and legextension only for a period of time and watch how your legs atrophy at the speed of light. :)
Click to expand...

You know I never cared much for Jay Cutler, but at my last show he was the guest poser, and I decided to buy his DVD just cause I thought seeing a monster like that train would be inspirational (and it was).

But after watching his double DVD set I gained a new respect for Jay, not only is a pretty cool and down to earth guy, but he defied so many odds and became one of the top pro bodybuilders today.

Not to mention the guy really does live bodybuilding 24/7, and yes I realize he takes a boatload of drugs, but there is no way in hell I could do half of this guy work-out! It was pretty unbelievable, and after watching the DVD I realized why Jay is one of the top IFBB pros today. He is 100% dedicated, and has complete discipline beyond what 99% of people have, yet he still ensures that he makes time for all of his fans, charity events, and his wife.

I give Jay a :thumb:

So, you can make fun of him, and his article or whatever, but the fact of the matter is you will never be at his level (or even close)of success in bodybuilding.
 
when is ronnie coming?
 
Originally posted by Quadsweep
Ok now I am convinced....

Try to do this. Do lunges and legextension only for a period of time and watch how your legs atrophy at the speed of light. :)
Click to expand...

hey wiseass,
i wasn't saying only do lunges and leg extensions if you want big quads. obviously squats are the best ex. you can do.

but what i WAS saying was that lunges DO work as a nice supplement.
 
Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
But after watching his double DVD set I gained a new respect for Jay, not only is a pretty cool and down to earth guy, but he defied so many odds and became one of the top pro bodybuilders today.

yes I realize he takes a boatload of drugs, but there is no way in hell I could do half of this guy work-out!
Click to expand...

i never really liked him either (only cuz i love Ronnie...in a completely heterosexual way haha) until i saw his video just like you. i also gained respect for him, for the same reasons as you.

but as to your second part, honestly, you have no idea how "much" you can train when juicin. you finish your workout and feel like you can go run a marathon. during your w.o., you get an indescribable feeling of wanting to train. the best comparison is when you take time off. say you take a month off, and your literally almost going through lifting withdrawals you want in the gym so bad.........that's how you feel before/during/after wo's while juicin.
 
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