BD bench press question

[kingfish]

Hello all,

I have been a silent observer of this forum for a month now, and I have to say this is a great site and I have learned lots from you all.

I have a question, can anyone tell me the different benefits between DB bench press with palm facing in vs. palm facing out? I can feel the difference when I do them, but was wondering if one works the chest better then the other.

Thanks

 

[Mudge]

I assume you mean palms facing in (together)? It would take some load off the shoulders, probably use the triceps a bit more, and make the movement more difficult.

If you want to hit the triceps, use a reverse grip bench, bring the bar to nipple or slightly higher, and use a smith machine.

 

[Josh]

Originally posted by Mudge
If you want to hit the triceps, use a reverse grip bench, bring the bar to nipple or slightly higher, and use a smith machine.

Hmm...firstable, sorry to Kingfish, this question will not pertain to your original concern on DB bench press.

Mudge, I'm not familiar with your mentioned reverse grip bench. How does it compared to CG bench press (which I assume is overhand) which also emphasizes triceps? What about the grip distance for this reverse grip bench, is it like normal overhand bench press or close like CG? I'm currently attempting to work on my triceps so that I can improve my chest bench as well, so your info will be much appreciated.

- Josh

 

[Mudge]

Grip is similar to standard bench (I go a tad wider than shoulder width), just reversed hands. It MUST be on a smith because you end up expending effort pushing wish your triceps. Bring the bar to nipple level or higher, as long as you feel it in the triceps the whole way through.

Alot of people consider this the #1 tri mass builder.

 

[Yanks20]

Mudge, i have been doing this for some time now but don't use the smith machine at all (try to avoid it as much as possible). only problem i have is once the weight gets above 250 it is dam near impossible to get the liftoff without a spotter.

have been using them as the beginning lift on tri's for some time now!

 

[Brad224]

So, let me get this straight, Mudge. You do it just the same as a regular bench press, but with the palms facing your head instead of your feet? I've never tried it, but in my mind that seems awkward.

 

[Mudge]

I know what you mean, I get close to under the bar, although how easy that is depends on the type of bench your using, with a smith its pretty easy obviously

The guy that said use ONLY a smith, is 6'1" 287, so I figure I'll listen and see how it goes Previously I've been a regular nose buster, he claims that its unsafe (also how Dorian tore his triceps), due to the weight you use - I know on that I go to 125, FWIW.

It could be he says use the smith because he includes rest pauses and 20 second static holds in his workouts, he has weird theories of only doing 1 working set, but balls to the wall, my first day on the program was yesterday. This guy started out as a 137 pound weakling.

Instead of just pushing STRAIGHT up with your arms, on a smith you also are pushing towards your feet, hence using the triceps more...

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by Brad224
So, let me get this straight, Mudge. You do it just the same as a regular bench press, but with the palms facing your head instead of your feet? I've never tried it, but in my mind that seems awkward.

Exactly, a reversed grip. Awkward, hmm. You cannot use the same weights as a normal bench (at least I'm not, yet), and you do not use the same position when you lower the weight as far as where you hit the chest. It really isn't awkward if you do it right, although it may require a couple light sets to get the hang of which is recommended on any new excersize for you anyway. I did a quick warmup and a regular set with about 80% of my normal bench working set weight, I will try for about 90% next time.

 

[Brad224]

Thanks, Mudge. I'll give that a try tonight since it's triceps night. You say this is supposed to be a great mass builder, eh? Would you use it as the first tricep exercise or would it matter if it is the finisher?

 

[Yanks20]

definately use it at the beginning of the workout. you will not have enough left to use it as a finisher unless you plan on doing it really light. just make sure that you keep you elbows in close and don't let them flair out! you'll love em!

 

[Mudge]

Yep, as the primary mass builder that is always your #1 priority, other (lighter) excersizes are "finishers".

Generally thats the rule of thumb, if you did benches and flys for chest, bench is #1 generally and flys #2, as an example.

 

[Brad224]

Ok, that's pretty consistent with the way I do my routines - big stuff first, lighter stuff last. Guess I'll use this in place of the behind-the-back-dips, and maybe alternate week to week.

Thanks for the help, guys.

 

[Josh]

Thanks, Mudge, for your explanation, I'll try this in my next tri day.

- Josh

 

[Brad224]

Ok, so I tried this last night and it was ok, but didn't give me the pump that I get from the behind-the-back dips. I think I probably should have used more weight - on my last set I was at 160 and it wasn't much of a strain.

The only problem with going heavier, and here's where maybe you can help me out, was by the end of each set I was getting a serious stabbing pain in my lower left lat, toward the middle of my back. I'm sure I must've been doing something wrong in form, but I can't figure out what. Any suggestions?

 

[Mudge]

This isn't about pump, its about building meat. If you want a serious pump, try to find the pink weights, and do about 200 reps

Drawing a blank on the lats, the bottom portion of the bench will hit the lats however. Keep the form like a normal bench other than reverse grip, touch the bar to about nipple level or slightly higher when doing reverse grip.

 

[Brad224]

Pink weights - 200 reps?!?!?!? Hardy har....

I realize it's about building meat, that's just always how I've gauged (although incorrectly, I'm sure) whether or not I'm getting any work done. I guess it's because I can't actually watch my muscles grow and I just want some indication that it's happening. Everyone around here seems to always mention the "serious burn" they get after a particular exercise and I was just expecting that. (pink weights, man, I'm still laughing.....)

 

[Mudge]

Yep, pump doesn't mean a whole lot. Give it 2-4 weeks if your willing, and see how it goes. So far as I have heard from everyone this is the #1 triceps meat builder.

 

[Brad224]

I'll give it a month and see where I'm at.

This WAS my routine:

Skullcrushers - 3 sets of 8
Lying extension - 2 sets of 8
Behind-the-back dips - 3 sets of 8

Would you use this to replace the skullcrushers? Or put it at the top, keep the skullcrushers and remove another exercise?

 

[Mudge]

The guy that got me doing the rev grip bench, says he does not do skull crushers anymore due to the weight used, I know I was up to 115 or so for reps, this is also how Dorian tore his tricep which is the final injury that retired him.

I would use this as the backbone of my program, the primary mass builder, so I spose its a good sub for the crushers.

Do you mean dumbell kickbacks when you say lying extention? Skull crushers/nose busters/french press/lying tricep extention are the same thing

This movement is probably not too different from behind the back press/dips as far as being a heavy movement.

 

[Brad224]

I guess I'm not really sure of the name of what I called "lying extensions" but they aren't skullcrushers.

What I do is take the EZ bar, lie on a bench with my arms in a position similar to how they would be if I were going to do a pull-over. Instead of doing a pull-over, I push my arms into a straight back behind the bench position so they are fully extended, then pull them back up close to the bench. It is about the same thing as a seated extension, except you are lying down.

You have to be careful because if you use a lot of weight it sometimes makes the bench tilt once your arms are extended, which can be scary when you're lifting!

 

[Mudge]

Sounds like an intensified skull crusher, some people put thier elbows at a slightly backward angle to keep tension on the triceps.

 

[Brad224]

These are different in that the bar isn't lowered to the head, it's positioned behind the head at all times and pushed back. Picture a military press done behind the neck and lying down, except bending at the elbows and keeping the top portion of the arm still.

I wish I knew the name of it - it works the triceps really good but it's really hard to describe.

 

[Mudge]

I gotcha, I actually touch the back of my head or go slightly further back when I do these, for me they are not true "nose busters", because they hit my triceps harder if I angle the elbows back further, not as far back as your talking, because doing it the way your doing it (not knocking the movement) it only is difficult during maybe 1/2 of the range, and is probably putting a good strain on your pecs too, in what I might guess to be a dangerous way but who knows.

When you do skull crushers, angle your elbows back maybe 6" from straight up, and you will finish the movement with a good contraction and still maintain strain on the triceps through a good deal of the rest of the movement, to do this I end up behind the head with the bar.

In essence what your doing is a 2 arm kickback, except lying down.

 

[Brad224]

Cool. Thanks Mudge. And I see what you mean by the strain. I will modify my crushers like that - once I'm done doing the reverse grip bench cycle.