Agreed.
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Broser vs Palumbo - battle of the keto diet
- Thread starter Arnold
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Agreed.
So this is why all the ethiopians have so much muscle mass.
It's why they don't die. Remember, said starving Ethiopians didn't start with much muscle mass to begin with.
I don't make this stuff up, dg - a quick google search will show this to you.
Eric, why do you keep asking me to "end this"? You claim your results speak for themselves. Okay, cool. Show me.
LOL, they die everyday. Point is, you will loose muscle in extended ketosis. If you have none to begin with, you can't loose it can you. To add or keep muscle mass, you have to eat alot of calories, carbs included. You have said it yourself on here many times. I think like the other poster stated, we are comparing apples to oranges. Eric referred to bodybuilders trying to diet for a comp. I agree 100% with him that there is no way in hell that if they did what you are referring to, they would not accomplish much if anything. Now if you are a regular person who cares not if you loose muscle mass, then it will work.
Yes I do, because it is getting old and is the the point of silliness. I really do not need to prove myself to a moderator of a discussion board. When I was asked for reasoning I gave it and it was dismissed. When I was asked for some studies, I gave them and they were dismissed. So, now I can post a bunch of people I got shredded and what then? You will all of a sudden agree with everything I say? Please, we both know that is not going to happen, so let's stop wasting time and move on. People have enough info to make their own choice about all of this now.
Do not post up personal experience. It does not count.
Wow! Im sorry but you cannot say that Built cant talk about personal experience. Your ENTIRE agrument is based on personal experience and that of those you have trained.
Okay.
<cancels delts, quads, lats>
Listen, Eric, so far I've posted up peer-reviewed journal articles and direct quotes from McDonald's work (which is based upon peer-reviewed research). I've prepped Merkaba, whose pictures are on this site (his avatar is one) and posted up his starting and ending weight, and his results. I posted up my friend, natural bodybuider Steve Holt as a champion competitive bodybuider who used UD2.0 to prep for contests, and I've posed up my own pics. I do at least TRY to back up MY claims.
So far you've made a lot of noise about your 20 years of experience. Surely you have SOME clients you would like to show off! I mean hell, my hairdresser has pix of her clients.
Put it this way - if I were to hire a professional online coach, I'd like something other than "Oh you can trust me, I've done this for 20 years, I don't need to prove anything". Surely you'd need more than this, too!
<cancels delts, quads, lats>
Listen, Eric, so far I've posted up peer-reviewed journal articles and direct quotes from McDonald's work (which is based upon peer-reviewed research). I've prepped Merkaba, whose pictures are on this site (his avatar is one) and posted up his starting and ending weight, and his results. I posted up my friend, natural bodybuider Steve Holt as a champion competitive bodybuider who used UD2.0 to prep for contests, and I've posed up my own pics. I do at least TRY to back up MY claims.
So far you've made a lot of noise about your 20 years of experience. Surely you have SOME clients you would like to show off! I mean hell, my hairdresser has pix of her clients.
Put it this way - if I were to hire a professional online coach, I'd like something other than "Oh you can trust me, I've done this for 20 years, I don't need to prove anything". Surely you'd need more than this, too!
is that like: Seacrest OUT!
Exactly...and when a potential client asks me for references and/or pics, he/she will get them (although this is rarely the case anymore)...but like I said, I have nothing to prove to a few people that post on a board. I would be disappointed in myself if I took this any further. The things I have achieved in this industry speaks loudly enough about my knowledge, experience and reputation of which I have worked my ass of for, and earned...and am very proud of AND in which I feel very blessed/grateful for.
On THIS particular topic...yes, GP is out. Glad that something posted with my name has remained so popular. Thanks Prince
Wrong...just had to point that out. You are a student...do some research (on what I already posted about)...the role in muscle growth of:
-cortisol
-IGF-1
-myogenin
-akt
-insulin
-carbs
That should give you some answers.
Now, see ya!
One thing that I will say that I think is impressive is Dave Palumbo can produce 100's of national level and top level IFBB PRO bodybuilders he has trained. He is so well known for his successful contest prep he is one trainer that does NOT have to say a word or say a name because its well known that he is a successful trainer of top pros.
I am not doubting your knowledge or abilities in training and contest prep at all Eric, but I do think its fair if asked to give some names of competitors you trained for a show, even if its just an amateur NPC state show where we can go check some pics of them. I would also think you might want to put these before and after pics on your website.
I am not doubting your knowledge or abilities in training and contest prep at all Eric, but I do think its fair if asked to give some names of competitors you trained for a show, even if its just an amateur NPC state show where we can go check some pics of them. I would also think you might want to put these before and after pics on your website.
Eric, When ever asked for a research, study or before after photos you manage to post a drawn out reply but never post what's actually requested.
If you have trained so many clients, then I don't understand why is it SO hard for you to digg up few pics and just post.Ok, we know you don't go by studies n trials n research but your personal experience, then post some pictures AT LEAST.
Prince, Hope this one doesn't get locked like the other one.
If you have trained so many clients, then I don't understand why is it SO hard for you to digg up few pics and just post.Ok, we know you don't go by studies n trials n research but your personal experience, then post some pictures AT LEAST.
Prince, Hope this one doesn't get locked like the other one.
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Wrong...just had to point that out. You are a student...do some research (on what I already posted about)...the role in muscle growth of:
-cortisol
-IGF-1
-myogenin
-akt
-insulin
-carbs
That should give you some answers.
Now, see ya!
What has any of that got to do with using personal experience?
As for the list above, I’m not here to do your work for you. I’ve read the research and know what the facts are and I’m afraid they don’t agree with your take on things. You have had a very hard time backing up any of your claims, with your favourite line being that your 20 years of experience conquers all.....sorry but it doesn’t, at least not here. Any rational person would have posted up a few studies (peer reviewed, not ones you have written yourself) and a couple of before and after shots on the first page of this thread and be done with it. Why didn't you?
You also described how you dieted and trained when you were trying out keto diets. And I think most people came to the conclusion that you were overtraining, so I went and found a good article listing some of the negative effects of overtraining, check it out:
Bodybuilding.com - Eric Broser - Overtrain If You Don't Want To Gain!
Did you see the parts about loss of strength, increased recovery time and muscle loss? Pretty interesting stuff, I sure as hell wouldn’t want to overtrain on a cut.
So you lost more muscle mass than you would have like during keto because your volume was too high for the amount of calories you were taking in. Just thought I would post this, from Lyle's website bodyrecomposition.com:
''Training for these athletes, therefore, must revolve around the same types of training that they are doing for their sport. As noted above, at least some volume of heavy training should be done while dieting to maintain current strength and muscle mass levels. However, research clearly shows that the volume and frequency of training can be cut back rather significantly.
Reductions in both of up to 2/3rds (so total sets and/or days of training can be reduced) are fine but ONLY if the intensity (weight on the bar) is maintained. So an athlete who was doing 6 sets of 3 in the back squat could conceivably cut back to 2 sets of 3 as long as he keeps the weight on the bar the same. If the intensity is cut back, strength and muscle mass will suffer. Again, some volume of heavy work must be kept in.''
And here’s the link if you want to read the full article:
Fat Loss for Athletes: Part 3 | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald
Sorry I haven’t posted the specific study that he is talking about (I have read it but didn’t note done where it was from) but vie got exams at the minute and can’t take too much time away from studying.
I think it’s fair to say that having your clients use the same volume during a cut as they would during a bulk is incorrect, and will hamper their results in the long run. But that’s between you and your client and is none of my concern.
Anyway I’m bored of this thread now, you’ve sucked all the fun out of it.
Have a good day and wish Rantorcha all the best for his upcoming competition.
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Great post, Moondog. See, I've read this so many times: while cutting, reduce training volume and keep the iron on the bar!
Marion wrote about Schwarzenegger's experience with it here:
T-Nation.com | Ripped, Rugged, and Dense
And I blogged about it, here: Got Built? » Keeping it going - the evolutionary process of fat loss
It's how I was able to, at the tender age of forty two and having been soft and fat though 20 years of overtraining, finally lean out enough to have the abs you see in my avatar.
Kinda makes me think of this old chestnut:
"The better I train and the better I eat, the better my genetics seem to get!"
Marion wrote about Schwarzenegger's experience with it here:
T-Nation.com | Ripped, Rugged, and Dense
And I blogged about it, here: Got Built? » Keeping it going - the evolutionary process of fat loss
It's how I was able to, at the tender age of forty two and having been soft and fat though 20 years of overtraining, finally lean out enough to have the abs you see in my avatar.
Kinda makes me think of this old chestnut:
"The better I train and the better I eat, the better my genetics seem to get!"
reducing volume in a period of caloric deficit is critical to preventing over-training.
Training increases tissue breakdown/trauma. During a "diet", we are taking in less calories which limits our ability to recover from high amounts of tissue trauma created by high(er) volumes of training which may potentially lead to over-training. I did a research review on this a few months back. HERE
Patrick
Training increases tissue breakdown/trauma. During a "diet", we are taking in less calories which limits our ability to recover from high amounts of tissue trauma created by high(er) volumes of training which may potentially lead to over-training. I did a research review on this a few months back. HERE
Patrick
That's a nice way to back up your claims....as usual....typical Eric..
I just want you all to know...I love you guys! You are so much fun!
Now, carry on!
I just want you all to know...I love you guys! You are so much fun!
Now, carry on!
You can love me as much as you want....
....but I still think you're full of shit.
Eric, that's an incredibly professional reply to all of the researched information that we've just received. Way to show professional integrity and respect to your peers.
Awww, they have formed a little anti-gopro gang! Crap, this is terrible for me. Guess I will have to go back to the drawing board again and start my life over. 
Please guys...I posted an article with like 20 article references on this very subject which explains basically everything I have been talking about. You choose to ignore that plus my 20 years of experience and work with hundreds of clients whose main goals are body transformation.
Just lighten up now and either continue the discussion or let it go. Built seems to have all the answers and Moondogg does not want to research hormones and genes which have EVERYTHING to do with why constant-state-keto-diets are detrimental to muscle.
Listen, its your body(ies) not mine, so if you have it all figured out then I am happy for you!
I have said all I need to about this subject and am 100% confident in all of it. Shit, I have no stake in what type of diet works best. Dave Palumbo has a huge stake in keto-diets because that is what his whole supplement line is based on, and it is the diet he gives to EVERY SINGLE client. I am only concerned with what works best, which differs somewhat from person to person. Hell, I even tweak my PRRS and FDFS protocols for each individual based on their specific needs, goals, experience, strengths, weaknesses, etc! Cookie cutter I am not.
Anyway, enjoy. See you around the boards!
Please guys...I posted an article with like 20 article references on this very subject which explains basically everything I have been talking about. You choose to ignore that plus my 20 years of experience and work with hundreds of clients whose main goals are body transformation.
Just lighten up now and either continue the discussion or let it go. Built seems to have all the answers and Moondogg does not want to research hormones and genes which have EVERYTHING to do with why constant-state-keto-diets are detrimental to muscle.
Listen, its your body(ies) not mine, so if you have it all figured out then I am happy for you!
I have said all I need to about this subject and am 100% confident in all of it. Shit, I have no stake in what type of diet works best. Dave Palumbo has a huge stake in keto-diets because that is what his whole supplement line is based on, and it is the diet he gives to EVERY SINGLE client. I am only concerned with what works best, which differs somewhat from person to person. Hell, I even tweak my PRRS and FDFS protocols for each individual based on their specific needs, goals, experience, strengths, weaknesses, etc! Cookie cutter I am not.
Anyway, enjoy. See you around the boards!
You are the last person that should use the word respect.
Awww, they have formed a little anti-bullshit gang! Crap, this is terrible for me. Guess I will have to go back to the drawing board again and start my life over.
There we go, I fixed that for you.
We all know about your 20 years...
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