Carbs and fats

[PreMier]

so are you a parrot for siding with emma?

get over yourself jake.

Where did I side with anyone? I asked a question, I was merely curious

And language, fuck you

Will you find it funny when Leah shows up all of a sudden?

Listen, don't start talking about parrotting here, since I've got quite a counter to that.

Kristen has learned mostly from me most likely. Does that make her a parrot? Because some of what she says might sound similar to some of what I might say? Do 'students' learn from 'teachers'? Do you know how many parrots post on message boards? Even here? Everyone learns from someone else.

Nope, I wont.. she was stating what worked for her, thats great. Plus Leah has been her far more than either of you.. so maybe she does actually read IM
If you look above, I was merely asking a question. And like I said before, I thought it was just funny that you start posting here again after she became a mod. I know she has her own opinion, and she is an intelligent woman.. but you being her coach and then popping in all of a sudden when she is debating with people made me wonder if you were telling her what to say or not is all.

 

[PreMier]

I actually own two parrots, and they have more intelligent things to say than the crap you're posting in this thread.

Thanks Prince, I love you too. Sorry you didnt like my opinion earlier, but I might as well be honest with ya.


Im done with the bickering here.. its pointless, and it will continue on forever over small technicalities.

 

[wild]

Where did I side with anyone? I asked a question, I was merely curious

And language, fuck you

What happened to frick?

 

[Thunder]

Nope, I wont.. she was stating what worked for her, thats great. Plus Leah has been her far more than either of you.. so maybe she does actually read IM

Not too likely.

If you look above, I was merely asking a question.

I'm aware of this.

And like I said before, I thought it was just funny that you start posting here again after she became a mod. I know she has her own opinion, and she is an intelligent woman.. but you being her coach and then popping in all of a sudden when she is debating with people made me wonder if you were telling her what to say or not is all.

1. She told me she became a mod here, yes.
2. I came over, looked around, posted a couple times.
3. She told me about this thread ... after she was already involved in it. I came over to read it and replied. Anything wrong with voicing my two cents?
4. I can honestly tell you that I did not feed her what to say Jake.

 

[Arnold]

Thanks Prince, I love you too. Sorry you didnt like my opinion earlier, but I might as well be honest with ya.

as I am being honest with you.

 

[The13ig13adWolf]

you being her coach and then popping in all of a sudden when she is debating with people made me wonder if you were telling her what to say or not is all.

right...because i all of a sudden lost the ability to think for myself

 

[wild]

Hi Prince

(just thought I'd say hi while I'm here )

 

[Arnold]

Hi Prince

(just thought I'd say hi while I'm here )

hi, nice abs!

 

[wild]

hi, nice abs!

Old pic...they got better...but thanks

 

[Thunder]

Old pic...they got better...but thanks

Post one from this morning ... er, wait, don't do that.

 

[wild]

Post one from this morning ... er, wait, don't do that.

ha

ha

ha


...ok...they got better...and then they got really bad...whatever, there's no photographic evidence of fatness

 

[P-funk]

Is it true you should avoid combining carbs and fats in the one meal?

I always combine them....and look how great I turned out!!

 

[myCATpowerlifts]

Dang, some major ownage being passed out in this thread.

I think it is smart to lessen carbs slightly when you are hours away, or hours after activity, as carbs are mainly a source of energy during activity.
While fat is (from what I have read) predominately used as energy while at rest.
So during times when not training, fat should be used more.

However, trying to split the macro's in every meal, is just plain moronic, and goes against our own bodies.

PreMier ownz.

 

[Jodi]

I always combine them....and look how great I turned out!!

 

[Emma-Leigh]

Damn it... That is what I get for living on the other side of the world - I miss all the action!

 

[The13ig13adWolf]

Damn it... That is what I get for living on the other side of the world - I miss all the action!

...i'm actually ready for a nap.

 

[remmy]

And language, fuck you

Been lurking here a few days, and I can already tell who the little bitch is on this board...

 

[Seanp156]

Well, that was an entertaining read...

 

[Pirate!]

The point isn't really to have 0 carbs in a fat meal or 0 fat in a carb meal as like you said, that's almost impossible to do. The take home point with that 'method' is to minimize (not eliminate) carbs in fat meals and minimize (not eliminate) fats in carb meals for example, which again, of course is definitely not necessary to success.

I understand this and I understand the logic behind the method, which I used for about 3 months. The orginal question asked if something is true and the answer to that is no. I think one should do whatever works for that person, but there is obviously a danger in dealing with absolutes. True/False quesitons simply don't work for many issues.

I have discussed this issue with some of the top nutritional scientists at the University of Texas, where I am working on completing a B.S. in Nutrition and Health, and I can assure you that this theory of not eating fat and carbs together providing any benefit (anabolism, fat loss, nutrient partitioning, health improvement etc) has been tested and holds no water at all. Having said that, I still find nothing wrong with it if that is what one prefers.

BTW, I'm surprised to see you on this board, Thunder. I thought I was on a lot of boards, but you are everywhere I go.

 

[Pirate!]

Been lurking here a few days, and I can already tell who the little bitch is on this board...

LOL, someone used their first post to call PreMier a bitch.

 

[Thunder]

I understand this and I understand the logic behind the method, which I used for about 3 months. The orginal question asked if something is true and the answer to that is no. I think one should do whatever works for that person, but there is obviously a danger in dealing with absolutes. True/False quesitons simply don't work for many issues.

Like I said, nowhere did I say it was the end all be all. I said it was one method and it is NOT about macro splitting but about timing macros around periods when they're most efficiently used. I agree with you however, that each person has to find out what works best for themselves.

I have discussed this issue with some of the top nutritional scientists at the University of Texas, where I am working on completing a B.S. in Nutrition and Health, and I can assure you that this theory of not eating fat and carbs together providing any benefit (anabolism, fat loss, nutrient partitioning, health improvement etc) has been tested and holds no water at all.

John Ivy? Richard Kreider?

Tested? There's published research on macro splitting? Not aware of this. Do you have a reference? Thanks.

 

[thajeepster]

and the end all answer to the question in the first place????

Some things work for some and some work for others.... experiment and find what works for you.

I know i have no "cred" like many of the other poster's here, but common sense should dictate that every one is different, and no single nutritional program will work for everyone.

 

[Thunder]

and the end all answer to the question in the first place????

I guess the answer to the original question would be no, you don't have to separate carbs and fats.

I know i have no "cred" like many of the other poster's here, but common sense should dictate that every one is different, and no single nutritional program will work for everyone.

Indeed.

 

[Pirate!]

Kreider is at The University of Memphis, and if Ivy is at UT, I have yet to come across him. I intended to say in my last post that I don't have studies for reference.

I'm not contenting that people shouldn't split their macro-nutrients if that is what they want, but I can tell you that the vast majority of those with formal education in nutrition would not answer yes to the orginal question.

There will always be fads, lore, and opinions when it comes to this kind of stuff. In a few years, there will be something just as big that takes the place of the last thing.

It isn't hard for one to find studies on the benefits of eating some fat with a meal that has a significant amount carbohydrates. In fact, the epedimic of obsesity in the Former Soviet Union is in large part contributed to this. Just looking at the GI aspect of things, reasonable amounts of healthy fats help to keep blood sugar from spiking when ingesting carbs. This is just one example of the benefits from having fat with your carbs. There are many more, which are supported by research.

 

[The13ig13adWolf]

well, that was easy enough

 

[Emma-Leigh]

I guess the answer to the original question would be no, you don't have to separate carbs and fats....

Didn't I say that in my first few posts??!

don't get me wrong - I never said the diet doesn't work... Infact, the diet can work... But this is because it is working 'despite the macro seperation' rather than because of it... In reality, anything that provides appropriate calories, sufficient protein, some healthy fats and some fibre and is not completely stupid will work...

All I am saying there is no real (applicable, reliable, peer-reviewed, scientific) evidence for the suggestions at all.

That is: Do it if you want - if you are getting what you need it will work... But no, you don't have to do it.



ps: if you want a few studies on food combining (basic ones, but studies none the less) then look at the post I posted above with all the links.... there are a few studies on the difference between balanced and food combining diets and they do not show a difference.

 

[The13ig13adWolf]

Didn't I say that in my first few posts??!

you actually called separating carbs and fats bollox...which is the ONLY reason i had a problem with your original post.

 

[Thunder]

Kreider is at The University of Memphis, and if Ivy is at UT, I have yet to come across him. I intended to say in my last post that I don't have studies for reference.

Memphis? Last I talked to him he was at Baylor heading up the ESN lab. Ivy is at UT and is the head of the Kines. & Health Education department there.

Out of curiosity, who are the top nutritional scientists you're referring to? I'm pretty good with names on the academic side.

Didn't think there was a reference given your post stated that basically it was already tested and disproved ...

I'm not contenting that people shouldn't split their macro-nutrients if that is what they want, but I can tell you that the vast majority of those with formal education in nutrition would not answer yes to the orginal question.

No arguements there.

But let's remember (just for fun) that it is not those with university education in nutrition that are the leaders in sports nutrition - it's exercise physiologists. Most of the big names in academia/industry are exercise physiologists. University nutrition programs do not really teach 'sports nutrition'. Most are preparatory programs for a future dietetics/RD classification.

Again though, there is no magic to macro splitting. No doubt. But it is not illogical to time macros (ie eat most of your carbs around workouts or during periods of higher IS for example) when you need them, and eat less carbs when you don't need them.

Just looking at the GI aspect of things, reasonable amounts of healthy fats help to keep blood sugar from spiking when ingesting carbs. This is just one example of the benefits from having fat with your carbs. There are many more, which are supported by research.

The GI is completely overrated in the grand scheme of things in my opinion (not from a health standpoint as low GI carbs tend to be 'healthy' carbs). Delayed gastric emptying does not automatically equal suppressed insulin response. You could look at the corresponding II for various low GI foods as an example. But again, doesn't really matter to this discussion, but interesting food for thought.

Good discussion.

 

[emunah]

not arguing either side, but the both of the food combining studies were done on obese subjects and only measure weight loss, not LBM. Results then can't really be extrapolated to bodybuilders or non-obese subjects who are looking to gain LBM while either losing or gaining minimal fat. the other studies only talk about overall ratios not individual meals.

 

[Emma-Leigh]

you actually called separating carbs and fats bollox...which is the ONLY reason i had a problem with your original post.

Yes - which is just my short hand way of saing "no, you do not need to seperate carbs and fats. There is no scientific evidence to suggest it is necessary in the least and it is not going to instantly turn you into a marshmellow should you combine the two".