I am not very educated on lifting I guess because I always train to failure on just about every set and every lift. So I guess my question is if I don't train to failure how do I know when to stop doing reps.
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CNS and training to failure.
- Thread starter GFR
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tonybaloney said:
you choose a rep range to work with and then you use that. You need to really know your lifts and what you use as far as weights go.
For example If tomorrow is an 8 rep day for you and you are going to squat. You would take a weight you can squat comfortably for 10 reps and bang it out for 8 reps for multiple sets (3-4), allowing fatigue to accumulate over the course a a few sets rather then just going until failure and stressing out your system and also destroying your energy for the next couple of sets. For example, lets say you kick out your squats...lets say 315lbs to failure at 11 reps. Your total amount of weight moved was 3465lbs. Not bad! Now, I go at it with the same weight (315lbs) and go for 8 reps for three sets. Well, my total amount of weight moved is 7560lbs. Now, I have just moved more weight without pushing my CNS into a stressed state so I have more room to grow and get stronger over the next few weeks instead of stressing myself and risking over training. Be sure to keep all your vairables constant, things like rep speed and the very important rest interval, as they will help to show you how well you are progressing....IE....315/8reps x 3 sets with 60sec rest interval is not the same as 315/8reps x 3 sets without knowing your rest interval since you can't tell how hard you are actually working from set to set if you are resting longer and longer every set. Also, 315/8 reps x 3 sets with a constant tempo (1/0/1) down 1, up, down 2, up, etc...is not the same as breathing squats down 1, up, stand and pause, down 2, up, stand and pause for longer, etc..
emunah said:
Actually, training to failure will result in a greater number of stimulated muscle fibers, particularly type IIb fibers. This is because your central nervous system "pull out the stops" in an effort to get the set completed. This is more important if your goals are strength, but it can certainly be beneficial if you are going for hypertrophy as well.
As well, there should theoretically be a greater hormonal response when training to failure.
Krelian said:
what is recovering is the bodies neurological system and endocrine system as it has reached a state of fatigue and can no-longer keep up with the intense level of training being placed on it.
When you train you create stress. After your workout, in order to handle this stress your body "supercompensates" in an effort to get back to homeostatis. So, you have adapted to a new level of stress. As you train over weeks and weeks your body contiuously increases its level of fitness, in order to keep up with the stress, but that level of fitness is increased at a slower pace then the level of fatigue which is being built up, do to the stress and adaptation cycle taking place to get back to homeostatis. You then move into over reaching. You have slighty passed your point of recovery or your are just able to recover between workouts and your CNS is starting to burn out. This can be charecterized by fatigue or loss of strength. Usually people say don't allow yourself to lose anymore then a 10% drop in strength in an over reaching period before dropping the volume so that you can allow for a greater time for recovery and allow your fitness level to increase and catch up to and pass by your level of fatigue (the fitness fatigue model) since there is a lag time between the two. If you keep pushing through this you get into an state where your body can no-longer recover to homeostasis and reaches a state of heterostasis. This is called overtraining. There are many characteristics of over training...loss of strength, fatigue, tired, moody, immune system compromised, excessive sorness, dis interest in training, etc....Basically, the point of no return.
Ok so if I do the 3 sets of 8 like you say, should my last set always be to failure to make sure I push my muscles to the limit. Say I can get 9 on the last set should I do that or just stop at 8. And if I stop at 8 how often should I train to failure and go those extra reps.
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P-funk, what is the usual time needed for the CNS to recover? Does caffine shorten the time needed?
DOMS said:
there is no way to answer that. Depends on the person, their unqiue ability to recover and ofcourse how overtrained they are. Some people would need a few weeks. To be safe, planning an unloading week inbetween blocks of training would be a goo dthing.
not sure about the caffeine. maybe dale?
DOMS said:
In addition to what P said about individual genetics, this does depend somewhat on the routine you are performing. Your standard bodybuilding routine is not all that demanding unless you hit failure excessively. However, a routine like Westside is very demanding of the CNS: it involves working at a very high intensity (ME work), implementing compensatory acceleration (DE work), and a very high volume (Accessory/Modified RE work).
I was reading an article by James Smith, a natural powerlifter subscribing to the conjugate method, who deloads for 1 week for every 3 weeks of hard training. During his deloading weeks he uses a lot of higher repetition stuff, bodyweight stuff, and uses 70% of his working weight for similar set/rep schemes on a lot of movements.
