do people overrate the basics too much?

[CowPimp]

I quit training biceps for 6 month just to see what would happen and lost 1 inch in my arms. And yes I was still doing heavy rows n chins and my weight remained unchanged. So for me the proof is in the pudding.

I call bullshit, but whatever.

I consider barbell curls a basic movement for the biceps. If you want big triceps, lying tricep extensions are equivalent to what the squats is for the quads. I am with Lee Priest and Manfred Hoeberl on the idea that rows and presses are not enough for the biggest guns possible!!!

I could not have grown 22 inch guns by using ONLY Back, Chest, and Shoulder work. I tried and failed miserably.

I don't necessarily disagree. I think for optimal arm size, oftentimes added isolation work is beneficial. Most people just overdo it. As well, I don't think an absolute beginner in resistance training needs to bother with isolation work.

 

[IRON MAN]

I call bullshit, but whatever.




I don't necessarily disagree. I think for optimal arm size, oftentimes added isolation work is beneficial. Most people just overdo it. As well, I don't think an absolute beginner in resistance training needs to bother with isolation work.

Are you calling me a liar or could it be you just don't like me ???

 

[IRON MAN]

I agree, but it takes a long time to build a solid foundation where any arm isolation movement is really worthwhile.

I understand what you mean.

The greatest bodybuilders of all time have consider bicep curls and tricep ext a Basic Movement.

Note: Heres a copy of the MWF Bulking Routine Arnold used in his GROWING days. Notice his exercise selection for "BASIC BUILDERS". Arms were included!!!

1.Bench press
2.Incline press
3.Rows
4.Chins
5.Overhead press
6.Bicep curls
7.Lying tricep ext
8.squats
9.calf raises

 

[GFR]

I quit training biceps for 6 month just to see what would happen and lost 1 inch in my arms. And yes I was still doing heavy rows n chins and my weight remained unchanged. So for me the proof is in the pudding.

I consider barbell curls a basic movement for the biceps. If you want big triceps, lying tricep extensions are equivalent to what the squats is for the quads. I am with Lee Priest and Manfred Hoeberl on the idea that rows and presses are not enough for the biggest guns possible!!!

I could not have grown 22 inch guns by using ONLY Back, Chest, and Shoulder work. I tried and failed miserably.

Sergio had 20 1/4 inch arms so please stop the 22 BS, if you are 6'5 and 30% body fat then fine.


Also If you lost 1 inch from stopping all isolation bicep work then you were off cycle of did not train and eat the same.....I have lifted for 25 years and I can take a 3 months off all lifting and not lose more than 1/8 of an inch on my upper arms.

 

[swordfish]

The only isolation i use are skull crusher/nosebleeds and calf raises. I have a dominating chest that takes over on cg bench and i think calfs are a muscle that isn't hit hard enough by squats or delfts. Do whatever power lifters or Olympic lifters are doing and you will get big. But please oh please just eat healthy massive amounts of food.

no bicep curls, step ups, walking lunges, overhead dumbell extensions, dumbell flyes, lateral raises, seated rows, pushdowns, concentration curls, leg extensions, leg curls, or reverse pec dec flye????

 

[CowPimp]

Are you calling me a liar or could it be you just don't like me ???

Yeah, I'm calling you a liar. I don't say that because I dislike you, but because your story sounds like a load of shit. Reason one, because an inch is an incredibly large amount of mass to lose on your arms in 6 months time while you are still lifting (Probably even without lifting if you are of decent training age). Reason two, because any sane bodybuilder would notice before an entire inch was lost and implement back in that direct arm work before it reached that point. Reason three, because muscles don't atrophy for no good reason.

 

[CowPimp]

I understand what you mean.

The greatest bodybuilders of all time have consider bicep curls and tricep ext a Basic Movement.

Note: Heres a copy of the MWF Bulking Routine Arnold used in his GROWING days. Notice his exercise selection for "BASIC BUILDERS". Arms were included!!!

1.Bench press
2.Incline press
3.Rows
4.Chins
5.Overhead press
6.Bicep curls
7.Lying tricep ext
8.squats
9.calf raises

Oh, great, Arnold's wealth of knowledge has been dispersed. The only person that dumbshit is fit to advise training wise is a juiced up genetic freak.

Again, I'm not discounting direct arm work. I think a reasonable volume of arm work that is intelligently implemented is good for a bodybuilder, but it has nothing to do with Arnold's basic builders.

 

[swordfish]

there is something very coincedental about the bodybuilers back in the 50s 60s and 70s, they all had big arms. sergio arnold larry robby robinson ferrigno and many others and guess what they did arms 2 times a week or more

 

[Brutus_G]

Ok i lied i do do bicep curls but very rarly and i do lunges and step ups. I just don't consider step ups and lunges really isolation. I also do shrugs once a blue moon but i find now deadlifts hit them but before i never felt them getting hit by deadlifts.

 

[largepkg]

Sergio had 20 1/4 inch arms so please stop the 22 BS, if you are 6'5 and 30% body fat then fine.


Also If you lost 1 inch from stopping all isolation bicep work then you were off cycle of did not train and eat the same.....I have lifted for 25 years and I can take a 3 months off all lifting and not lose more than 1/8 of an inch on my upper arms.

This is why I love you Foreman! You call BS when you see it.

OK... Go ahead and say I'm ghey now.

 

[CowPimp]

there is something very coincedental about the bodybuilers back in the 50s 60s and 70s, they all had big arms. sergio arnold larry robby robinson ferrigno and many others and guess what they did arms 2 times a week or more

You cannot compare juiced up genetic freaks to your average weekend warrior. That is just asinine. Of course, these guys also did a lot of the basics. If you really want to use them as a comparison, then you have to take that into consideration.

Eastern bloc weighlifters often train 10-12 times each week as well. They don't overtrain. Maybe we all should? Hell no. An extremely small percentage of the population is capable of handling that kind of training frequency.

These people are capable of doing things that you and I cannot. If you have amazing genetics then go wild. I don't. I'll continue to train smart and spend my time more efficiently in the gym with the basic compound exercises.

Ok i lied i do do bicep curls but very rarly and i do lunges and step ups. I just don't consider step ups and lunges really isolation. I also do shrugs once a blue moon but i find now deadlifts hit them but before i never felt them getting hit by deadlifts.

Lunges and stepups are the basics in my book. If you don't consider them basic, then you need to stop living in a purely bilateral world. Also, just because it's a good idea to do some isolation work doesn't make the big compound exercises any less effective.

 

[myCATpowerlifts]

I quit training biceps for 6 month just to see what would happen and lost 1 inch in my arms. And yes I was still doing heavy rows n chins and my weight remained unchanged. So for me the proof is in the pudding.

I consider barbell curls a basic movement for the biceps. If you want big triceps, lying tricep extensions are equivalent to what the squats is for the quads. I am with Lee Priest and Manfred Hoeberl on the idea that rows and presses are not enough for the biggest guns possible!!!

I could not have grown 22 inch guns by using ONLY Back, Chest, and Shoulder work. I tried and failed miserably.

BAD use of hyperbole.

 

[IRON MAN]

Oh, great, Arnold's wealth of knowledge has been dispersed. The only person that dumbshit is fit to advise training wise is a juiced up genetic freak.

Again, I'm not discounting direct arm work. I think a reasonable volume of arm work that is intelligently implemented is good for a bodybuilder, but it has nothing to do with Arnold's basic builders.

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!!!!!!How big are your arms?

 

[IRON MAN]

Yeah, I'm calling you a liar. I don't say that because I dislike you, but because your story sounds like a load of shit. Reason one, because an inch is an incredibly large amount of mass to lose on your arms in 6 months time while you are still lifting (Probably even without lifting if you are of decent training age). Reason two, because any sane bodybuilder would notice before an entire inch was lost and implement back in that direct arm work before it reached that point. Reason three, because muscles don't atrophy for no good reason.

You just proved to me your not as smart as you put on. Now flame away...

 

[fufu]

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!!!!!!How big are your arms?

Wait.....you are a trainer and you are the playing the "my arms are bigger than yours" game? Are you serious?

 

[IRON MAN]

Wait.....you are a trainer and you are the playing the "my arms are bigger than yours" game? Are you serious?

Thats the whole point bro. COW PIMPLE is starting to be a real pain in the ASS. Where does he get off thinking he knows how my biceps repsond better than I. His arms are problaby 19 inches or less. With that being the case they won't shrink down like a 22 inch arm when you stop training them direclty because a smaller muscle is easier to maintain. The larger you become the harder it is to maintain that status. Trust me Ive been there!!! Better yet, COW claims I only know how to train juiced up freaks?? IS HE SERIOUS?? I don't see how he can be seeing my routine is designed for natural bodybuilders.

Note: Yeah I know what COW-FUNK are trying to do. It's not my program that's the problem, but the same old story in the end ever time I post in the training section. Based on the way they've been acting over the weeks shows me its not muscle building they're really looking for, it's "attention" and to always start something "new syndrome" LOL

 

[GFR]

Thats the whole point bro. COW PIMPLE is starting to be a real pain in the ASS. Where does he get off thinking he knows how my biceps repsond better than I. His arms are problaby 19 inches or less. With that being the case they won't shrink down like a 22 inch arm when you stop training them direclty because a smaller muscle is easier to maintain. The larger you become the harder it is to maintain that status.

Like I said sergio had 20 1/4 inch arms so drop the 22 inch BS, and all you have to do is look at CowPimps pics to see how big he is. I met Paul Dillet when I was 260 and had true 19 3/4 inch cold arms at 11% body fat, Paul was about 305 and the same body fat and he told me his arms were 21 1/2 cold, and Paul was 6'1 just like I am.....and after training at Golds Venice for 3 years I never saw a bigger arm in my life.

 

[IRON MAN]

Like I said sergio had 20 1/4 inch arms so drop the 22 inch BS, and all you have to do is look at CowPimps pics to see how big he is. I met Paul Dillet when I was 260 and had true 19 3/4 inch cold arms at 11% body fat, Paul was about 305 and the same body fat and he told me his arms were 21 1/2 cold, and Paul was 6'1 just like I am.....and after training at Golds Venice for 3 years I never saw a bigger arm in my life.

Foreman I mean no disrespct but "believe what you want". I have 22 inch arms when pumped not cold!!!They are 21 when cold.

Note: I refuse to be involved in anymore DRAMA period, "end of story"!!! I was invited to this board to help train bodybuilders who are very SERIOUS about their goals, not to get involved in everyones personal life. I will be staying in my own forum from here on out. If anyone needs me they know were to find me.

 

[GFR]

Foreman I mean no disrespct but "believe what you want". I have 22 inch arms when pumped not cold!!!They are 21 when cold.

Note: I refuse to be involved in anymore DRAMA period, "end of story"!!! I was invited to this board to help train bodybuilders who are very SERIOUS about their goals, not to get involved in everyones personal life. I will be staying in my own forum from here on out. If anyone needs me they know were to find me.

I doubt that, post a pic of your arms then.

 

[CowPimp]

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!!!!!!How big are your arms?

What does it matter? My arms aren't that big, but I'm not a bodybuilder. I could care less how big my arms are.

Why fuck me? Just because I think Arnold's training advice is crap?

You just proved to me your not as smart as you put on. Now flame away...

I'm just calling you out on what I think to be a lie, or at least an embellishment. I'm not the only one here who thinks that statement is loaded with BS.

Thats the whole point bro. COW PIMPLE is starting to be a real pain in the ASS. Where does he get off thinking he knows how my biceps repsond better than I. His arms are problaby 19 inches or less. With that being the case they won't shrink down like a 22 inch arm when you stop training them direclty because a smaller muscle is easier to maintain. The larger you become the harder it is to maintain that status. Trust me Ive been there!!! Better yet, COW claims I only know how to train juiced up freaks?? IS HE SERIOUS?? I don't see how he can be seeing my routine is designed for natural bodybuilders.

My arms may not be big, but that doesn't change the fact that muscles don't atrophy just beacuse you stop isolating them. That's ridiculous. Also, I never said you only know how to train juiced up freaks. I was referring to Arnold's training advice, not your own.

Note: Yeah I know what COW-FUNK are trying to do. It's not my program that's the problem, but the same old story in the end ever time I post in the training section. Based on the way they've been acting over the weeks shows me its not muscle building they're really looking for, it's "attention" and to always start something "new syndrome" LOL

You just have a lot of different training ideas, and I disagree with a lot of them. I think I've been quite civil discussing them with you, but now I think you're lying so I said something about it.

Foreman I mean no disrespct but "believe what you want". I have 22 inch arms when pumped not cold!!!They are 21 when cold.

Oh, backpedaling now are we?

 

[Tough Old Man]

Well guys I jump in for just one second. I have a few pic's of Iron Man. I also have one with a tape around his right bicep before he tore it 6 months ago. Can you lose 1" off an arm after having major surgery on it, I think so.

But anyhow the arm in the pic measures 22" and when foreman gets to my house next week, I will show him a pic of Iron's Arm if that's ok with Iron Man. But if he ask me not to, I won't.

By the way guys, Iron man is not a little guy at 6" and 275 lbs

Want to see what a bicep tear looks like a couple weeks after surgery. Enjoy






Tough

 

[CowPimp]

Losing size on your arms as a result of inactivity post surgery and losing size on your arms because you stopped isolating those muscles are two different scenarios. One sounds like nonsense, the other doesn't.

 

[faller]

Well i went and checked out your pic's cow pimp, and no disrespect bro, but if that is the net result of all your training philosophy i think i'll pass. You seem to have all the terminology in place, but imo if a little more time was spent on training instead of punching on a key board, you might accually see some results.

Oh, and ya i know i don't have a lot of posts, ( working/family/training) but make no mistake about it, i have been in the iron game for longer than you have been alive. And at 21 i could'nt write a desent program to save my life, but when i took my shirt off there was no mistakeing that lifting iron was a passion for me.

Again, no disrespect intended, just my 2 cents worth

 

[Dale Mabry]

Well i went and checked out your pic's cow pimp, and no disrespect bro, but if that is the net result of all your training philosophy i think i'll pass. You seem to have all the terminology in place, but imo if a little more time was spent on training instead of punching on a key board, you might accually see some results.

Oh, and ya i know i don't have a lot of posts, ( working/family/training) but make no mistake about it, i have been in the iron game for longer than you have been alive. And at 21 i could'nt write a desent program to save my life, but when i took my shirt off there was no mistakeing that lifting iron was a passion for me.

Again, no disrespect intended, just my 2 cents worth

A good physique does not equate to knowledge. And just imagine what your physique would have been like with the appropriate program.

Gear and other things come in to play. Iron Man, I got no beef with you, but comparison of arm circumference between you and he is ridiculous, you train for size, he doesn't. For example, if I were to challenge you to a vert leap test or a 40 yd sprint, it would not even be close, same as your arm being bigger than mine. Cow trains performance as do I , as does P.

If we are all being honest, some of the stuff you have stated is incorrect wrt physiological response/adaptations and shit like that. For the most part your program is sound, but there are issues here and there that just don't jibe with the literature. That is where P and Cow are coming from, as well as myself. I just don't care enough to post about it, would rather download porn or something.

 

[tucker01]

What do pics have to do with someones understanding of Kiniesiology, and biomechanics.

Cowpimp has a completely different goal then Ironman. (Training for performance, strength compared to asthetics) Add to the fact that genetics and drugs, make huge differences.

That is a competely ingnorant stance to base an opinion on.

 

[largepkg]

Well i went and checked out your pic's cow pimp, and no disrespect bro, but if that is the net result of all your training philosophy i think i'll pass. You seem to have all the terminology in place, but imo if a little more time was spent on training instead of punching on a key board, you might accually see some results.

Oh, and ya i know i don't have a lot of posts, ( working/family/training) but make no mistake about it, i have been in the iron game for longer than you have been alive. And at 21 i could'nt write a desent program to save my life, but when i took my shirt off there was no mistakeing that lifting iron was a passion for me.

Again, no disrespect intended, just my 2 cents worth

Faller, not defend CP because he can do that for himself but what does the size of one's muscle and knowledge have to do with one another? CP has more than held his own in the knowledge department. This is why he's a MOD. His goals are not the same as mine or yours apparently. Size doesn't equate to intelligence. Just look at your above comment about how you were at 21.

 

[Dale Mabry]

What do pics have to do with someones understanding of Kiniesiology, and biomechanics.

Cowpimp has a completely different goal then Ironman. (Training for performance, strength compared to asthetics) Add to the fact that genetics and drugs, make huge differences.

That is a competely ingnorant stance to base an opinion on.

Faller, not defend CP because he can do that for himself but what does the size of one's muscle and knowledge have to do with one another? CP has more than held his own in the knowledge department. This is why he's a MOD. His goals are not the same as mine or yours apparently. Size doesn't equate to intelligence. Just look at your above comment about how you were at 21.

You guys can quit biting my shit now and come up with material for your own posts.

 

[largepkg]

You guys can quit biting my shit now and come up with material for your own posts.

How did I know this was coming???

 

[GFR]

Well i went and checked out your pic's cow pimp, and no disrespect bro, but if that is the net result of all your training philosophy i think i'll pass. You seem to have all the terminology in place, but imo if a little more time was spent on training instead of punching on a key board, you might accually see some results.

Oh, and ya i know i don't have a lot of posts, ( working/family/training) but make no mistake about it, i have been in the iron game for longer than you have been alive. And at 21 i could'nt write a desent program to save my life, but when i took my shirt off there was no mistakeing that lifting iron was a passion for me.

Again, no disrespect intended, just my 2 cents worth

Your 2 cents are worth about 1 cent in Mexican currency.

 

[faller]

I would not take my truck to a mechanic that runs a broken down beater. Nor would i take someones training principles that look like they have never lifted a weight in their life, no matter how sound the philosophy.

Don't get me wrong, it seems to me that cow pimp has the respect of a lot of ppl on this board, he has obviosly earned it. It's not the first time he has run down IRON's training principles though. I use it, works great. I'm 47, and he has managed to put on a nice solid 13lb. on my frame. Getting up to a solid 235 at my age is no small feat, and its all due to IRON's training principles.

Mexican currency is on the rise.