Do you belive in God?

[crazy_enough]

Bio boy,

Dr. Kinsey abused no one - ever.

But "religious" people DO.

John H.

Hum, John, I must agree with bio on this one, damn, Kinsey did commit abuse and/or protect others who performed such acts.

I think its way too easy to claim that knowledge/science were the only reasons behind this "research", if it can be called that! Im still searching for the purpose or reasoning involved in knowing how many times a 1 yr old child can orgasm!

 

[gococksDJS]

Bio boy,

Dr. Kinsey abused no one - ever.

But "religious" people DO.

John H.

Shit John H, please explain to us how his studies contribute to anything? What does touching an 11 month old child benefit? How can you justify a man who claims that an infant can have a certain amount of orgasms in a certain amount of time? Would you submit your own children to his studies, and let him touch them for research purposes? I mean it's all in the name of science. Your one sick fuck.

 

[bio-chem]

surely crazy enough meets your requirements for open-mindedness. i dont think she qualifies as a close-minded, religious zealout by any stretch of the imagination.

by the way crazy im impressed with the photos youve posted. it shows your hard work has paid off

 

[devildog88]

if I had it in my power there are three things I would eliminate immediately from the face of the earth:

1) Child abuse - in any form by any one for any reason.

2) Religion - look at all of them closely, they are nothing more than gloried politics.

3) Politics. For obvious reasons.

Without these three this world would be so much better off. Truthfully.

Take Care, John H.[/QUOTE]
John Sounds like you were the son of a senator who Made you go to church and sexually abused you???????????

 

[mr_oo3]

Just like to say Hi, i'm 17, lifitng for 2 years.

Science, religion and philosophy will never agree, as all are by their nature incomplete.

Science due to both the course of time, and Hesinburgs uncertatnity principle, relgion due to its foundation on 'faith', which at times faith is the abandoment of logic, and philosophy due to the limits of human reason.

However, all three do seem to make room for each other, espcially science and religion.

One theory some athesists always say is the infamous Chaos Theory, the result of which is no free will. This theory has stood in the path of any religion that proclaims free will.

Now with the fruition of results of recent experiments, espcially the quatum physics spin on Youngs Experiment, science again allows room for a creator.

 

[John H.]

so are you defending child abuse then, by not calling it child abuse. what was the point of your story, that abuse is relative? thats fine if thats your arguement, i still say that by the accepted standards in american culture what dr kinsey supported is considered child abuse in todays america.

i mean it all comes down to definitions and if your saying your definition of abuse allows for what dr kinsey did, then you are also arguing what the unfortunate children had to suffer through at the hands of a few priests (not the majority) is also not considered child abuse.

Bio boy,

YOUR "point" is to try to FIND a way to discredit Dr. Kinsey and the work he and his Associates did. And you are not the first to try that.

Specifically, what college or university do you attend - the name of it and exactly where is it located? Is it accredited?

Re-read what I said, carefully and completely and accurately. If you can not or do not know how have one of your professors show you how. Are you learning disabled?

Dr. Kinsey and his Associates and the work they have done has stood the test of time over and over under extreme scrutiny. And for more than 50 years. They abused no one ever. Your mentioning you feel they did is your opinion and that of your "religion" and how you wish to "believe" and if you say it over and over and over again like you like to do you will talk yourself into reassuring your "beliefs" and perpetuating your "religion" however it is not based on the facts. Like I have told you many times before his work was under extreme scrutiny by people in law enforcement, teachers, social workers, psychiatrists, psychologists, Medical Doctors, etc. - people with far better credentials than yourself.

If you are "so sure" Dr. Kinsey and his Associates abused anyone take your complaint to law enforcement and have it investigated. And brought to court. You are not the first person to ask this and it has been investigated. And Dr. Kinsey and his Associates have been totally cleared of ANY wrongdoing.

What do you "call" your "religion"?

John H.

 

[John H.]

Hum, John, I must agree with bio on this one, damn, Kinsey did commit abuse and/or protect others who performed such acts.

I think its way too easy to claim that knowledge/science were the only reasons behind this "research", if it can be called that! Im still searching for the purpose or reasoning involved in knowing how many times a 1 yr old child can orgasm!

Crazy,

PROVE what you have just said. Others have questioned him and his work and that of his Associates and they all have been completely cleared of any wrongdoing.

If you are so "sure" he and his Associates did something wrong have it investigated. Follow through. You are not the first to question him and his work. Present your facts and accusations in a legal forum and have them proved or disproved. Stand by your personal attacks and take the consquences of your actions. Or do you always try to defame a person and their character and work of-hand without facts to back up your statements that can be proved in a court of law? He abused no one.

John H.

 

[John H.]

Shit John H, please explain to us how his studies contribute to anything? What does touching an 11 month old child benefit? How can you justify a man who claims that an infant can have a certain amount of orgasms in a certain amount of time? Would you submit your own children to his studies, and let him touch them for research purposes? I mean it's all in the name of science. Your one sick fuck.

Gococks,

You have never read and comprehended his work. You know nothing of his research and the reasons behind it.

READ CAREFULLY his work and research the reasons behind it completely, accurately and honestly. Anything you question or do not understand ask The Institute for Research in Sex, Gender and Reproduction at Indiana Unversity at Bloomington, Indiana, at www.indiana.edu/~kinsey

Let Dr. Kinsey and those that have followed his work explain it all to you so you will understand it from the source. And the reason(s) why. And how.

And if you have any accusations to level, level them directly to the source and take it to law enforcement. And the courts. And be prepared to present your facts and be able to back them up with facts. And remember you will also be under extreme scrutiny and that when you or anyone else trys to defame a person and their character you have to answer in a court of law for those words and suffer any consequences.

You say you are so "sure", then back up what you are saying with proof in a court of law.

John H.

 

[John H.]

if I had it in my power there are three things I would eliminate immediately from the face of the earth:

1) Child abuse - in any form by any one for any reason.

2) Religion - look at all of them closely, they are nothing more than gloried politics.

3) Politics. For obvious reasons.

Without these three this world would be so much better off. Truthfully.

Take Care, John H.

John Sounds like you were the son of a senator who Made you go to church and sexually abused you???????????[/QUOTE]

Hi Devil,

No, not at all - not even close.

I have seen the results of each in my own lifetime which is why I feel there is no real need or even purpose for any of those I mentioned.

Personally, no, not me. Not at all. I have never been abused nor have I abused anyone ever! Nor would I.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

To clarify, this thread is about whether someone believes in God. I have said I believe in a Supreme Being (call Him what you will). I have no use for "religion" which is man-made and because of their past and present practices which have not changed over time and "religion" to me is nothing more than "glorified politics".

I say the above to put this back on the subject of the thread.

Take Care, John H.

 

[gococksDJS]

You say you are so "sure", then back up what you are saying with proof in a court of law.

John H.

John H, what makes you so "sure" that he didn't molest children? Where's your proof in the court of law? What makes you so sure that he didn't touch little children because he was a sick fuck, and covered it up by saying he was doing a study? Is it because he is for the same thing you are for? I don't give a shit what someone says their motives are, touching children and finding out how many orgasms they can have is WRONG, no matter how "open minded, and fully" you want me to look at it. What if Michael Jackson was performing a study? The fact of the matter is that Michael Jackson and many Catholic Priests have done the same thing as your idol Dr. Kinsey, but they didn't claim it was for research. It sounds to me like your looking for approval for a problem of your own, and Dr. Kinsey and his sick "research" gives you that approval, and the ability to look in the mirror and tell yourself that it's not wrong to touch children. Jeffrey Dahmer performed experiments on his adolescent victims. He would drill a hole in their head and pour acid in, in an attempt to make them into zombies, he would then rape their corpses and dismember their bodies. Is this not a study? So is he wrong in your eyes? Look at his research "FULLY AND OPEN MINDED" John H.

 

[crazy_enough]

Crazy,

PROVE what you have just said. Others have questioned him and his work and that of his Associates and they all have been completely cleared of any wrongdoing.

If you are so "sure" he and his Associates did something wrong have it investigated. Follow through. You are not the first to question him and his work. Present your facts and accusations in a legal forum and have them proved or disproved. Stand by your personal attacks and take the consquences of your actions. Or do you always try to defame a person and their character and work of-hand without facts to back up your statements that can be proved in a court of law? He abused no one.

John H.

I am not making personal attacks John(while I admit u seem to be taking this very personaly), we are discussing beleifs, and it is my beleif that this person, his actions, motives and those of his associates were out of place and plain disgusting!
I do not beleive that those "studies" were necessary and feel that the "discoveries" or "advancements" made could have been attained in a different manner!
I always stand by what I think or say and take responsibility for my words and actions! Im not sure where that comment was coming from!?

Sincerely, I think that you are the one who should stand by his words and assume the conscequences...U are telling everyone to take these people to court if they aint happy with their practices and so on...Why the heck arent u taking every single church, reverend, priest etc to court then?? Ure always bitching and moaning about them! "Or do you always try to defame a person and their character and work of-hand without facts to back up your statements that can be proved in a court of law?" U see what Im getting at with this??

 

[bio-chem]

crazy enough's arguement is sound john. the name of my school? is it accredited? am i learning disabled? what do i call my religion? from these questions it shows your getting all worked up john. the fact is your now just reaching for any baseless atttacks in an effort not to discuss the real issues. or answer the tough questions posed to you.

you were the one to bring up kinsey on this thread so it is hard to act like we're all bringing this off subject. come out of your little world john boy and join the rest of us

and to show you ill answer any question you pose (unlike you will do for others)
i am a bio-chemistry major at Brigham Young University located in Provo, Ut its accredited in case you are wondering, and well respected thoughout industry. feel free to look up its rankings. as to my religion, i am a christian. though the question your asking i think you want to know is the name of the church i belong to. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. and as to any learning disabilities grow up john this isnt elementary school anymore.

 

[buff_tat2d_chic]

Maybe John H is really Dr. Kinsey... incognito.

 

[John H.]

John H, what makes you so "sure" that he didn't molest children? Where's your proof in the court of law? What makes you so sure that he didn't touch little children because he was a sick fuck, and covered it up by saying he was doing a study? Is it because he is for the same thing you are for? I don't give a shit what someone says their motives are, touching children and finding out how many orgasms they can have is WRONG, no matter how "open minded, and fully" you want me to look at it. What if Michael Jackson was performing a study? The fact of the matter is that Michael Jackson and many Catholic Priests have done the same thing as your idol Dr. Kinsey, but they didn't claim it was for research. It sounds to me like your looking for approval for a problem of your own, and Dr. Kinsey and his sick "research" gives you that approval, and the ability to look in the mirror and tell yourself that it's not wrong to touch children. Jeffrey Dahmer performed experiments on his adolescent victims. He would drill a hole in their head and pour acid in, in an attempt to make them into zombies, he would then rape their corpses and dismember their bodies. Is this not a study? So is he wrong in your eyes? Look at his research "FULLY AND OPEN MINDED" John H.

Gococks,

I did not bring up the subject of Dr. Kinsey on this thread. The subject of this thread was whether you believe in God or not.

Dr. Kinsey and his Associates in research were never found guilty of having done anything inappropriate with anyone nor did they abuse anyone. What you are insinuating has been fully discussed before over the last 50 years and by the highest of authority. The books that were a result of their research are directed to law enforcement, medical professionals, teachers, sociologists, scientists, psychologists, psychiatrists, etc. The books ended up being on the Best Seller list - the first time that had ever happened for books of this type and were very popular and well received in general - except not by the "religious" types. Anyone that had any questions about their methodology have already asked very direct questions to that end. Over the last 50 years or so and the work has stood the test of time and extreme scrutiny.

If you feel something wrong has been done take it to the prosecutors of jurisdiction and let them take care of your concerns. Based on my research and learning about Dr. Kinsey and the Institute nothing wrong was done. And I looked very closely. Go to the website for the Institute for Research in Sex, Gender and Reproduction at www.indiana.edu/~kinsey and ask them directly and see what information is available on the subject.

Other than being
Human Males, Dr. Kinsey, Jeffrey Dahlmer and Michael Jackson have NOTHING in common with each other. Not even close.

John H.

 

[bio-chem]

Gococks,


Other than being
Human Males, Dr. Kinsey, Jeffrey Dahlmer and Michael Jackson have NOTHING in common with each other. Not even close.

John H.

well that and they all touched children in a sexual way.

 

[John H.]

I am not making personal attacks John(while I admit u seem to be taking this very personaly), we are discussing beleifs, and it is my beleif that this person, his actions, motives and those of his associates were out of place and plain disgusting!
I do not beleive that those "studies" were necessary and feel that the "discoveries" or "advancements" made could have been attained in a different manner!
I always stand by what I think or say and take responsibility for my words and actions! Im not sure where that comment was coming from!?

Sincerely, I think that you are the one who should stand by his words and assume the conscequences...U are telling everyone to take these people to court if they aint happy with their practices and so on...Why the heck arent u taking every single church, reverend, priest etc to court then?? Ure always bitching and moaning about them! "Or do you always try to defame a person and their character and work of-hand without facts to back up your statements that can be proved in a court of law?" U see what Im getting at with this??

Crazy,

Are your "beliefs" based on the FACTS surrounding the research and those involved? Accurate, honest facts.

And how is it that the same questions have been brought up even before the research was published and has been checked out by the authorities and found groundless. The "religious right" has had as their aggenda to try to discredit Dr. Kinsey and his Associates' work since they first heard about it and especially when the research was published because his work debunks what the "religious right" has tried to get others to believe about Human Sexuality. Read the books for yourself and do your own research into the writing of these Books.

As to the abuses of pastors, priests, etc. that has in some cases been brought to court and there have been those that were prosecuted but there has also been cover-up by the Catholic Church. In Cleveland, Ohio, it was recently revealed by the Churchs' own secular "investigative team" that all the records which had information about errant priests for example - and priests were not the only offenders - has disappeared and no one knows where it all went.

John H.

 

[bio-chem]

john the accusations were not found to be groundless. the original statiticians who checked dr kinseys work disagreed with his methods and felt the way he handled his samples led to faulty conclusions. dr kinsey however disagreed and published his book anyways. so your information is not correct. regardless of ones feelings on whether what he did was ethical or not(something only you believe on this forum) scientifically much of what dr kinsey did is and was incorrect. scientifically speaking only.

 

[John H.]

crazy enough's arguement is sound john. the name of my school? is it accredited? am i learning disabled? what do i call my religion? from these questions it shows your getting all worked up john. the fact is your now just reaching for any baseless atttacks in an effort not to discuss the real issues. or answer the tough questions posed to you.

you were the one to bring up kinsey on this thread so it is hard to act like we're all bringing this off subject. come out of your little world john boy and join the rest of us

and to show you ill answer any question you pose (unlike you will do for others)
i am a bio-chemistry major at Brigham Young University located in Provo, Ut its accredited in case you are wondering, and well respected thoughout industry. feel free to look up its rankings. as to my religion, i am a christian. though the question your asking i think you want to know is the name of the church i belong to. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. and as to any learning disabilities grow up john this isnt elementary school anymore.

Bio boy,

It seems to me if I remember correctly in the past you said you were going to a "university" in the "south". On one occasion you told me when I used the word "college" you got upset and said "no, university" - do you remember that? Are you a republican?

Now you say you are a Mormon. And going to college in Utah. Which is it - the "south" or "Utah" and a "college" or "university"? Mormons believed in multiple wives. And had "visions". Some still do and some still have them so they say. And multiple wives. And like Gococks has also said and you just did, I never brought up Dr. Kinsey on this thread - you two did. I was answering the topic of this thread which is whether you believe in God. As a Mormon you hate people that are Homosexual and BiSexual. Your religion teaches that bigotry and hatred. God never said anything like that and neither did Christ.

John H.

 

[chuckufarley]

I also believe in the woman who lived in a shoe.
And I am close personal friends with the 3 Blind Mice, man they got it rough. ​

 

[bio-chem]

wrong john. find the post where i said i went to a university in the south. i didnt. i also never got upset over the difference between a college and a university. you have me confused with someonte else.

while i agree philisophically with rebublican grass roots ideals, i consider myself an independent and vote based on the candidates presented to me. i am originally from washington state (spent my first 18 years there) lived 2 years in the philippines and now have lived in ut going to college for the rest.

as a mormon dont tell me what i believe because like a fool you assume. mormons dont hate homosexuals. ask crazy enough if she thinks i hate her. mormons do not still practice polygamy, and we still believe in continued revelation from God in present time. if you want to have a discussion on mormonism feel free to start a thread and id be happy to discuss it. untill then dont assume, it doesnt help your case at all

 

[John H.]

john the accusations were not found to be groundless. the original statiticians who checked dr kinseys work disagreed with his methods and felt the way he handled his samples led to faulty conclusions. dr kinsey however disagreed and published his book anyways. so your information is not correct. regardless of ones feelings on whether what he did was ethical or not(something only you believe on this forum) scientifically much of what dr kinsey did is and was incorrect. scientifically speaking only.

Bio boy,

Have YOU READ - READ ENTIRELY - the two books yourself in their entirety? Each is about 800 pages in length. The first was published in 1948 and the second 1953. And reprinted in 1998 by Indiana University Press.

There was disagreement over the USE OF the statistics and where those statistics came from. It was found that the statistics utilized in the reports were based on facts and they were known to be correct in the first place and they were not in error. Also statisticians and Dr. Kinsey did talk to each other over the methodology utilized. Dr. Kinsey and his Associates were the authors of the works SEXUAL BEHAVIOR IN THE HUMAN MALE and SEXUAL BEHAVIOR IN THE HUMAN FEMALE. These books have stood the test of time and extreme scrutiny. Period. Even by their peers.

Go to www.indiana.edu/~kinsey where this subject is brought up and discussed. It is the web-site of Indiana University's ALFRED C. KINSEY INSTITUTE FOR RESEARCH IN SEX, GENDER, AND REPRODUCTION.

John H.

 

[I Are Baboon]

Every damn thread turns into the same discussion.

 

[Vieope]

Funny how the grammar experts didn´t complain about "belive" in the topic title.

 

[bio-chem]

nope like i said i only read the first book. and having spent many hours in the lab and becoming intimately used to the scientific method, i can agree with the original statiticians who found kinseys methods flawed and his conclusions biased.

 

[Muscle_Girl]

No, I don't believe there was a certain supernatural being that created us. In my own mind, I believe in evolution, just makes more sense than some dude walking on water and shit. So we came from apes.. and monkeys.. and before that all the way to parasites.
I do believe there is more out there in the universe and I do believe there are other beings. (not to mention we are (as humans) bring ourselves to our own destruction, thats another thread)

 

[John H.]

wrong john. find the post where i said i went to a university in the south. i didnt. i also never got upset over the difference between a college and a university. you have me confused with someonte else.

while i agree philisophically with rebublican grass roots ideals, i consider myself an independent and vote based on the candidates presented to me. i am originally from washington state (spent my first 18 years there) lived 2 years in the philippines and now have lived in ut going to college for the rest.

as a mormon dont tell me what i believe because like a fool you assume. mormons dont hate homosexuals. ask crazy enough if she thinks i hate her. mormons do not still practice polygamy, and we still believe in continued revelation from God in present time. if you want to have a discussion on mormonism feel free to start a thread and id be happy to discuss it. untill then dont assume, it doesnt help your case at all

Bio boy,

Somewhere in one of your original posts to me in response to what I had said you did correct me on the use of the "college"/"university" thing and you did tell me you were going to college down "south" as I remember - unless I am wrong and it was Gococks. You are similar in thought and action.

On TV not long ago there was a piece I think on 20/20 talking about a large town (I forget the name right now) in Utah were Mormons still practice having multiple wives, the town is surrounded by a wall and no one that is not "approved" is allowed in or out... And the population is about 100,000 if I remember right. The State Attorney General of Utah was investigating one of your members having a 15 year old wife that was one of his children if I remember right. (The program was awhile ago)...

As far as the LDS church they do not like Homosexuals and BiSexuals and do damn them. Thus the hatred and the bigotry. Maybe YOU do not but as an institution they do and it has even been discussed on TV about this.

I will say that the LDS church in Salt Lake City DOES HAVE a TREMENDOUS CHOIR and Temple and Organ and Organist. World reknown and justly so! And one of their early churches still stands in Kirtland, Ohio, I have seen it.

John H.

 

[crazy_enough]

Crazy,

Are your "beliefs" based on the FACTS surrounding the research and those involved? Accurate, honest facts.

And how is it that the same questions have been brought up even before the research was published and has been checked out by the authorities and found groundless. The "religious right" has had as their aggenda to try to discredit Dr. Kinsey and his Associates' work since they first heard about it and especially when the research was published because his work debunks what the "religious right" has tried to get others to believe about Human Sexuality. Read the books for yourself and do your own research into the writing of these Books.

As to the abuses of pastors, priests, etc. that has in some cases been brought to court and there have been those that were prosecuted but there has also been cover-up by the Catholic Church. In Cleveland, Ohio, it was recently revealed by the Churchs' own secular "investigative team" that all the records which had information about errant priests for example - and priests were not the only offenders - has disappeared and no one knows where it all went.

John H.

WTF John, beleifs are just that beleifs!! U beleive in some form of a higher being right??? "Are your "beliefs" based on the FACTS? Accurate, honest facts?" I think not, beleif is pretty another word for opinion....

I dont really care if the pope, president or prime minister of Guatemala said the research was all fine and dandy, I personaly, from what I have read (and watched) about this fella and his so called research, disagree with the methods used and BELEIVE that they were wrong! What important breakthru did these "studies" provide to humanity?? If one's only concern in life is sex, I can see why this would be so damn imperative, but I dont see how this benefited our scientific knowledge as a society!
So we know that children orgasm....Woopdeefuckingdoo!!!! How does this advance our comprehension of sexual behaviour?? Do you ever consider the repercussions of these "experiments" on the children(and families) involved?? Perhaps U should read into that as well...

 

[Muscle_Girl]

I vote he just STFU.. who is with me?

 

[crazy_enough]

No, I don't believe there was a certain supernatural being that created us. In my own mind, I believe in evolution, just makes more sense than some dude walking on water and shit. So we came from apes.. and monkeys.. and before that all the way to parasites.
I do believe there is more out there in the universe and I do believe there are other beings. (not to mention we are (as humans) bring ourselves to our own destruction, thats another thread)

That pretty much sums it up for me as well....