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Eating frequency

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One thing I would like to point out is the OP mentioned he eats from 8am to 8:30. That is indeed a lot to eat within 12 hours. Mine was spread out over 16 hours like this and they were smaller meals to get my 4000-5000 calorie, 250-300 protein intake for ectomorph/hardgainer. Pre workout was hardly a meal. Just a snack.

-6:00 am

-9:00 am

-12:00 pm

-2:45 pm

-4:45 pm (pre-workout)

-7:45 pm (post-workout)

-10:00-10:30 pm (before bedtime)

I did that 5 days a week (mon-fri) then on the weekend not as strict. This worked for me but as suggested....listen to Built.
 
EDIT...Cleared up some confusion.
Thanks for letting me know that we dont really have to eat 6 times a day. I was under the impression we needed to do that. Listen to Built she knows what she is talking about for sure.

Couldn't have said it better.
 
:rolleyes: There's always one... You do realize those are her abs in the avatar?
Don't take this personally newbie.. but I'm going with Built on this one.
Maybe you should pick up a book on the subject that was written in this century?

All right, as a couple others have said, there's more than one way to skin a cat, as there are different ways to get your calories. I said I prefer more meals and why I prefer it. There's all kinds of people on both sides of the issue claiming one way is best, so to say one way is the THE way is wrong. Everyone's bodies and goals are different and you need to find out and do what works best for you. And as far as picking up a book written in this century...don't be a moron. It's hard NOT to find a current book or article talking about frequent meals.
 
The only thing I'd say here is if you have a job interacting with people, you might want to spread out the carbs a bit (the other stuff doesn't matter as much).

It has absolutely nothing to do with metabolism, energy, or any of that bullshit. Large amounts of undigested carbs in the intestines = OH MY GOD GAS. I believe I'm a registered biological weapon on my carbups :)
 
All right, as a couple others have said, there's more than one way to skin a cat, as there are different ways to get your calories. I said I prefer more meals and why I prefer it. There's all kinds of people on both sides of the issue claiming one way is best, so to say one way is the THE way is wrong. Everyone's bodies and goals are different and you need to find out and do what works best for you. And as far as picking up a book written in this century...don't be a moron. It's hard NOT to find a current book or article talking about frequent meals.

Indeed. It's hard not to find a current book or article talking about how wonderful glutamine is (it doesn't do shit unless you're in a burn unit getting 40g of it a day through an IV), or how a high protein diet will wreck your kidneys (it won't, unless you have diseased kidneys in which case you're already terribly ill with wrecked kidneys), or how "muscle confusion" is the latest and greatest (here's a tip: you can't confuse your muscles. They don't think). It's hard not to find a current book or article extolling the virtues of a low fat diet and cardio-cardio-CARDIO for leanness, either.

Repetition doesn't equal fact.

We've said it before - the difference here is small - if you feel better, personally, if you're more comfortable and feel more "fed" eating frequent meals, go for it. There's no science to support its superiority over other eating patterns, and in fact there is science to support superiority over other eating patterns, but the advantages is small over simply eating the right amount of the right food for your body.

But the "debate" portion has been closed now since at least 1997.

Br J Nutr. 1997 Apr;77 Suppl 1:S57-70.

Meal frequency and energy balance.
Bellisle F, McDevitt R, Prentice AM.

INSERM U341, Hotel Dieu de Paris, France.

Several epidemiological studies have observed an inverse relationship between people's habitual frequency of eating and body weight, leading to the suggestion that a 'nibbling' meal pattern may help in the avoidance of obesity. A review of all pertinent studies shows that, although many fail to find any significant relationship, the relationship is consistently inverse in those that do observe a relationship. However, this finding is highly vulnerable to the probable confounding effects of post hoc changes in dietary patterns as a consequence of weight gain and to dietary under-reporting which undoubtedly invalidates some of the studies. We conclude that the epidemiological evidence is at best very weak, and almost certainly represents an artefact. A detailed review of the possible mechanistic explanations for a metabolic advantage of nibbling meal patterns failed to reveal significant benefits in respect of energy expenditure. Although some short-term studies suggest that the thermic effect of feeding is higher when an isoenergetic test load is divided into multiple small meals, other studies refute this, and most are neutral. More importantly, studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24 h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging. Finally, with the exception of a single study, there is no evidence that weight loss on hypoenergetic regimens is altered by meal frequency. We conclude that any effects of meal pattern on the regulation of body weight are likely to be mediated through effects on the food intake side of the energy balance equation.
PMID: 9155494 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


The one study that shows a possible effect cannot be trusted because of dietary self-reporting, a problem that is rampant in these types of studies. You really have to lock people up and feed them weighed and prepared food if you really want to see the results - just like they have done with animals - where no effect has ever been noted.

My .02
 
Built - does the same thing hold true for bulking? I haven't done a lot of research on that and have much much more experience/knowledge about cutting at this point, so I don't know 100%.

I doubt it's a massive difference if any, just curious.
 
There are no good studies on meal timing, nutrient partitioning and bulking, sadly. My strong feeling is that there is a heirarchy to follow here:

  1. Make sure your intake is correct (ie calories, grams protein, carb, fat, fibre)
  2. Make sure you are comfortable
  3. Make sure your comfort isn't making you unhealthy/too fat/too thin. If it is, adjust your calories and your macros as per step 1.
  4. Take steps to maintain/improve insulin sensitivity (ie move, fool - also take creatine etc)
  5. NOW spend time micromanaging the other shit, stuff like the specific macronutrient mix that will lead to optimal hypertrophy; which type of microcellular casein-infused blah blah blah to take at bedtime yada yada yada.
 
All right, as a couple others have said, there's more than one way to skin a cat, as there are different ways to get your calories. I said I prefer more meals and why I prefer it. There's all kinds of people on both sides of the issue claiming one way is best, so to say one way is the THE way is wrong. Everyone's bodies and goals are different and you need to find out and do what works best for you. And as far as picking up a book written in this century...don't be a moron. It's hard NOT to find a current book or article talking about frequent meals.

Hey, I'm not trying to be a moron, I'm not saying eating often is the wrong way either. I'm saying it's a pain in the ass to eat that way and being inprisioned by the idea is pointless and needless.
You stated "if you eat the bulk of your calories later in the day and don't get enough during the morning hours after your body has fasted all night, what is your body gonna feed on? your muscle, that's what "
That's just outright wrong. So again, I say, read more recent science on the subject before making such statements.
That's not me being a moron. That's me helping you to not look like one.
 
With all due respect for those with the opinion that eating frequency makes no difference I beg to differ, at least as far as I am concerned.
For the last 3 weeks I went back down to 3 square meals a day + 1 protein shake and maintained around a 400 calorie deficit a day without changing my macros, I gained 6 pounds after going to bathroom in morning.
I noticed that the weight gain was all in my belly area, neck and face and it was obvious as day light, it was horrifying. I have put in a lot of effort and work into losing the weight.
I am back to eating 7 small meals a day again and already lost 2 pounds in 2 days and my energy is through the roof, also my gut appears smaller already.
Again, I am not trying to disrespect any of the experts here who had a different opinion but it seems the only way for me is the eating frequently option.
 
If you gained weight you were in a caloric surplus, there's no denying that.

If you're now losing weight, you're in a caloric deficit.

Try tracking your intake and eating the exact same amount over 3 meals that you're eating over 7 meals and I doubt you'll see any difference in weight gain. There are numerous articles in the literature denying any relationship between weight loss and meal frequency.

If you really did keep everything the same, then the only answer can be water retention. Losing 2lbs. in 2 days on a 400cal deficit is impossible.
 
Thanks for your input but I have been tracking everything I eat to the T for the last 4 months, I was not in surplus on any day during the 3 weeks. I am very puzzled about it. I have an appointment with my doctor who has a PHD as a Nutritionist, I am going to have blood works done. According to all the experts I should not have gained any weight, maybe stayed at the weight I was at but not gain.
 
Did you wait 3 weeks to weigh yourself or did I mis-read that somehow? I weigh in at least 1 time each week on the same day each week.
 
Thanks for your input but I have been tracking everything I eat to the T for the last 4 months, I was not in surplus on any day during the 3 weeks. I am very puzzled about it. I have an appointment with my doctor who has a PHD as a Nutritionist, I am going to have blood works done. According to all the experts I should not have gained any weight, maybe stayed at the weight I was at but not gain.

Water weight then... Or maybe you got a haircut.

There is no possible way, on a 400 calorie deficit, that you lose 2lbs. in 2 days. It's just not metabolically possible.
 
Did you wait 3 weeks to weigh yourself or did I mis-read that somehow? I weigh in at least 1 time each week on the same day each week.
I weighed myself every 3 days or so and figured I might be just fluctuating then when I did hit the 6 pound gain I just had to stop and change back to frequent eating.


Water weight then... Or maybe you got a haircut.

There is no possible way, on a 400 calorie deficit, that you lose 2lbs. in 2 days. It's just not metabolically possible.

I am finding that dieting is not an exact science, we all react differently to similar diets. Built stated in several posts I have seen that the body can fluctuate up to 4 pounds over night. So why is it so impossible that I lost 2 pounds in 2 days?
 
With all due respect for those with the opinion that eating frequency makes no difference I beg to differ, at least as far as I am concerned.
For the last 3 weeks I went back down to 3 square meals a day + 1 protein shake and maintained around a 400 calorie deficit a day without changing my macros, I gained 6 pounds after going to bathroom in morning.
I noticed that the weight gain was all in my belly area, neck and face and it was obvious as day light, it was horrifying. I have put in a lot of effort and work into losing the weight.
I am back to eating 7 small meals a day again and already lost 2 pounds in 2 days and my energy is through the roof, also my gut appears smaller already.
Again, I am not trying to disrespect any of the experts here who had a different opinion but it seems the only way for me is the eating frequently option.

I weighed myself every 3 days or so and figured I might be just fluctuating then when I did hit the 6 pound gain I just had to stop and change back to frequent eating.
I am finding that dieting is not an exact science, we all react differently to similar diets. Built stated in several posts I have seen that the body can fluctuate up to 4 pounds over night. So why is it so impossible that I lost 2 pounds in 2 days?

It can fluctuate four - or more - pounds from a dump or water-weight. Or glycogen depletion/loading. Or hormones.

Fat - nope. 3500 calories = one pound of bodyfat. No way to gain or lose four of those overnight.

Daily meal frequency does not impact metabolic rate.

It may, however, impact upon appetite.
 
It can fluctuate four - or more - pounds from a dump or water-weight. Or glycogen depletion/loading. Or hormones.

Fat - nope. 3500 calories = one pound of bodyfat. No way to gain or lose four of those overnight.

Daily meal frequency does not impact metabolic rate.

It may, however, impact upon appetite.

I never suggested that I gained 6 pounds of fat but what is on my face, belly and neck? :barf:
I am not trying to dispute anything with anyone I am just sharing my experience and frustration. It might be all water and I hope it is but why did I gain so much water? I am drinking 64 oz of water plus coffee and other liquids through out the day, that has not changed in the last 4 months so what happened to cause me to gain 6 pounds of whatever? I know it is not muscle mass because I measured and even though I am getting more definitition I have not gained any muscle size in the last 3 weeks.
The only change is the eating frequency or there is something physically wrong with me :twitch: this is why i am having the physical and blood tests done.
 
Many people who make a change to their eating program note that they "gain weight" - the body takes a while to accommodate the change. I'm not sure 3 weeks is proof of anything. The weight change may be +/- 1-2 lb of "fat" but is more likely water weight. Not sure I'd read a lot into that.

Personally I've found I'm happy at 6 meals / day (or however many my body tells me I need. I've cut successfully several times down to 6-7% bf on the 5-6 meals/ day approach. I'm also conditioned to start feeling ultra depleted when I hit about 2.5 hrs between meals.
 
Many people who make a change to their eating program note that they "gain weight" - the body takes a while to accommodate the change. I'm not sure 3 weeks is proof of anything. The weight change may be +/- 1-2 lb of "fat" but is more likely water weight. Not sure I'd read a lot into that.

Personally I've found I'm happy at 6 meals / day (or however many my body tells me I need. I've cut successfully several times down to 6-7% bf on the 5-6 meals/ day approach. I'm also conditioned to start feeling ultra depleted when I hit about 2.5 hrs between meals.

I do like the feeling of being depleted, eating 3 times a day I was feeling stuffed and bloated all the time and my sleep got messed up, in the mornings I felt like crap. I am like you frequent eating is the way to go for me.
 
If it's more comfortable for you to eat six times than to eat three times, why did you change to three?
 
:rolleyes: There's always one... You do realize those are her abs in the avatar?
Don't take this personally newbie.. but I'm going with Built on this one.
Maybe you should pick up a book on the subject that was written in this century?
LOL. Sometimes it would be prudent for thes new folks to hang around the forums a bit longer and learn a few things they don't know.The first thing is DON'T argue with Built.
 
Muscle Gelz Transdermals
IronMag Labs Prohormones
If it's more comfortable for you to eat six times than to eat three times, why did you change to three?

Convinience, I am very busy with work and stopping to eat 7 times a day was a little annoying even though it was satisfying plus I saw many posts on these forums saying it did not matter how many times you ate and I wanted to try what you guys said. I hope I did not offend you by stating my experience.

LOL. Sometimes it would be prudent for thes new folks to hang around the forums a bit longer and learn a few things they don't know.The first thing is DON'T argue with Built.

:hmmm:
 
Why would I be offended by your sharing of experience?

You clearly bloated, this part is obvious. I don't know why you bloated, but there's no way you gained more fat from eating this way - not unless your calories went up.

What macros did you run, out of curiosity? And what were your food choices? I wonder if you have some sort of food intolerance that doesn't bug you if you eat small portions at a time, but flares up when you eat a lot of it all at once? I'm like this with lactose, for instance. If I trickle in a little milk in my tea etc through the day, I'm fine. I knock back a glass of milk all at once, and, well, let's just say it's amazing the paint doesn't peel off walls! And wheat, in large quantities, makes me bloat so bad I once gained 13 lbs over the course of a long weekend. Just water of course, but it was pretty unpleasant!
 
Many people who make a change to their eating program note that they "gain weight" - the body takes a while to accommodate the change. I'm not sure 3 weeks is proof of anything. The weight change may be +/- 1-2 lb of "fat" but is more likely water weight. Not sure I'd read a lot into that.

Personally I've found I'm happy at 6 meals / day (or however many my body tells me I need. I've cut successfully several times down to 6-7% bf on the 5-6 meals/ day approach. I'm also conditioned to start feeling ultra depleted when I hit about 2.5 hrs between meals.

I'm the exacty same way, sassy.

I can't believe all of this. I mean, I guess I have to. I had always read and been taught that after too long without eating our body's go into a catabolic state, and cortisol is released. When I haven't eaten in more than 5 or 6 hours I get extremely hungry, I lose focus, and I can even get angry. I guess, as Built, said this is more just appetite.

I just can't imagine that it's equally healthy to eat 4000 calorie once a day right before bed than it is to eat those calories steadily and evenly throughout the day.

This goes again everything I've learned about fitness and health. This is bizarre. I'm going to take it upon myself to read as much as possible. I trust all our renowned members, but I need to prove this to myself.
 
Why would I be offended by your sharing of experience?

You clearly bloated, this part is obvious. I don't know why you bloated, but there's no way you gained more fat from eating this way - not unless your calories went up.

What macros did you run, out of curiosity? And what were your food choices? I wonder if you have some sort of food intolerance that doesn't bug you if you eat small portions at a time, but flares up when you eat a lot of it all at once? I'm like this with lactose, for instance. If I trickle in a little milk in my tea etc through the day, I'm fine. I knock back a glass of milk all at once, and, well, let's just say it's amazing the paint doesn't peel off walls! And wheat, in large quantities, makes me bloat so bad I once gained 13 lbs over the course of a long weekend. Just water of course, but it was pretty unpleasant!

My 3 kids are all Celiacs so maybe I am as well, I never bothered to have myself checked. I know I am lactose intolerant. In the 3 weeks I did change my diet somewhat and was eating 3 larger meals, there was fried food a couple of times a week and that is breaded with wheat. I was staying in a different town as well away from home for most of that period but I did keep track of my total calories as close as possible. I did not take a scale with me to restaurants but I have learned to estimate the size of what I am eating and I made it a purpose to eat less than what I thought I should.
I will look into the wheat thing, it could be I am a Celiac as well.
I can't say exactly what my macros were during the 3 weeks but I know Protein and fat were substantially higher than Carbs during the entire time.
Now that I am back on my plan I am doing 45/35/20 P/F/C
 
I'm the exacty same way, sassy.

I can't believe all of this. I mean, I guess I have to. I had always read and been taught that after too long without eating our body's go into a catabolic state, and cortisol is released. When I haven't eaten in more than 5 or 6 hours I get extremely hungry, I lose focus, and I can even get angry. I guess, as Built, said this is more just appetite.

I just can't imagine that it's equally healthy to eat 4000 calorie once a day right before bed than it is to eat those calories steadily and evenly throughout the day.

This goes again everything I've learned about fitness and health. This is bizarre. I'm going to take it upon myself to read as much as possible. I trust all our renowned members, but I need to prove this to myself.

I think you can condition yourself to eat any particular way - all the way thru HS (living at home), of course we always ate 3 meals / day. When I was in college I wouldn't eat until noon because I spent all morning in class and I found that if I ate food and then sat for 4 hrs, I'd have a worse stomach ache than if I ate nothing. We adapt.

But I've been following a "many small meals" schedule since the early 90s so I'm adapted to it. In fact I'm so in tune w/ how much I metabolize within a given amount of time - forget getting hungry - I start getting light-headed because I'm completely depleted - and I can anticipate this happening within 5 min of it actually happening based on how long its been since I last ate, and based on what I last ate. It would be very hard for me to change where I'm at - also because I'm conditioned to eat a competition diet where it does matter that i'm burning everything efficiently. But I will also eat something if I feel a crash coming on - I know I'm depleted, so eat or suffer the consequences (which for me is an agonizing stomach ache and a pounding headache that will stay w/ me for 3 days --> I hold tension in the base of my head and it doesn't go away.
 
My 3 kids are all Celiacs so maybe I am as well, I never bothered to have myself checked. I know I am lactose intolerant. In the 3 weeks I did change my diet somewhat and was eating 3 larger meals, there was fried food a couple of times a week and that is breaded with wheat. I was staying in a different town as well away from home for most of that period but I did keep track of my total calories as close as possible. I did not take a scale with me to restaurants but I have learned to estimate the size of what I am eating and I made it a purpose to eat less than what I thought I should.
I will look into the wheat thing, it could be I am a Celiac as well.
I can't say exactly what my macros were during the 3 weeks but I know Protein and fat were substantially higher than Carbs during the entire time.
Forgive me, but were I to summarize what you just said, it would sound like "Although I did not weigh my food and cannot tell you what my actual calories were, much less macronutrient breakdown, I gained weight when I ate three times a day in restaurants rather than six times a day from home-made food."

You see my problem.
Now that I am back on my plan I am doing 45/35/20 P/F/C
Calories and grams please. Percentages tell us nothing.


I think you can condition yourself to eat any particular way - all the way thru HS (living at home), of course we always ate 3 meals / day. When I was in college I wouldn't eat until noon because I spent all morning in class and I found that if I ate food and then sat for 4 hrs, I'd have a worse stomach ache than if I ate nothing. We adapt.

We really do.
 
Sassy, When you say competitive, is that bodybuilding?
 
Have you seen her avatar??? lol

Avatars dont necessarily mean it is the person posting, several other members have women in their Avatars but they are men!

Sassy is there a link for pictures of you in competition? Interesting to see the condition of the folks I am getting advise from!
 
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