• Hello, this board in now turned off and no new posting.
    Please REGISTER at Anabolic Steroid Forums, and become a member of our NEW community!
  • Check Out IronMag Labs® KSM-66 Max - Recovery and Anabolic Growth Complex

Entitlement America

Big Smoothy

Windy City
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
5,626
Reaction score
388
Points
83
Age
65
Location
Chicago
Not just Medicare and SS, and SSI, but.....

In Entitlement America, The Head Of A Household Of Four Making Minimum Wage Has More Disposable Income Than A Family Making $60,000 A Year


Link:
In Entitlement America, The Head Of A Household Of Four Making Minimum Wage Has More Disposable Income Than A Family Making $60,000 A Year | zero hedge

Tonight's stunning financial piece de resistance comes from Wyatt Emerich of The Clevelant Current. In what is sure to inspire some serious ire among all those who once believed Ronald Reagan that it was the USSR that was the "Evil Empire", Emmerich analyzes disposable income and economic benefits among several key income classes and comes to the stunning (and verifiable) conclusion that "a one-parent family of three making $14,500 a year (minimum wage) has more disposable income than a family making $60,000 a year." And that excludes benefits from Supplemental Security Income disability checks. America is now a country which punishes those middle-class people who not only try to work hard, but avoid scamming the system. Not surprisingly, it is not only the richest and most audacious thieves that prosper - it is also the penny scammers at the very bottom of the economic ladder that rip off the middle class each and every day, courtesy of the world's most generous entitlement system. Perhaps if Reagan were alive today, he would wish to modify the object of his once legendary remark.

From Emmerich:

You can do as well working one week a month at minimum wage as you can working $60,000-a-year, full-time, high-stress job.

My chart tells the story. It is pretty much self-explanatory.

Chart at link: not able to put here in IM.

Stunning? Just do it yourself.

Almost all welfare programs have Web sites where you can call up "benefits calculators." Just plug in your income and family size and, presto, your benefits are automatically calculated.

The chart is quite revealing. A one-parent family of three making $14,500 a year (minimu wage) has more disposable income than a amily making $60,000 a year.

And if that wasn't enough, here is one that will blow your mind:

If the family provider works only one week a month at minimum wage, he or she makes 92 percent as much as a provider grossing $60,000 a year.

Ever wonder why Obama was so focused on health reform? It is so those who have no interest or ability in working, make as much as representatives of America's once exalted, and now merely endangered, middle class.

First of all, working one week a month, saves big-time on child care. But the real big-ticket item is Medicaid, which has minimal deductibles and copays. By working only one week a month at a minimum wage job, a provider is able to get total medical coverage for next to nothing.

Compare this to the family provider making $60,000 a year. A typical Mississippi family coverage would cost around $12,000, adding deductibles and copays adds an additional $4,500 or so to the bill. That's a huge hit.

There is a reason why a full time worker may not be too excited to learn there is little to show for doing the "right thing."

The full-time $60,000-a-year job is going to be much more demanding than woring one week a month at minimu wage. Presumably, the low-income parent will have more energy to attend to the various stresses of managing a household.

It gets even scarier if one assumes a little dishonesty is throwin in the equation.

If the one-week-a-month worker maintains an unreported cash-only job on the side, the deal gets better than a regular $60,000-a-year job. In this scenario, you maintain a reportable, payroll deductible, low-income job for federal tax purposes. This allows you to easily establish your qualification for all these welfare programs. Then your black-market job gives you additional cash without interfering with your benefits. Some economists estimate there is one trillion in unreported income each year in the United States.

This really got me thinking. Just how much money could I get if I set out to deliberately scam the system? I soon realized that getting a low-paying minimum wage job would set the stage for far more welfare benefits than you could earn in a real job, if you were weilling to cheat. Even if you dodn't cheat, you could do almost as well working one week a month at minimum wage than busting a gut at a $60,000-a-year job.

Now where it gets plainly out of control is if one throws in Supplemental Security Income.

SSI pays $8,088 per year for each "disabled" family member. A person can be deemed "disabled" if thy are totally lacking in the cultural and educational skills needed to be employable in the workforce.

If you add $24,262 a year for three disability checks, the lowest paid welfare family would now have far more take-home income than the $60,000-a-year family.

Best of all: being on welfare does not judge you if you are stupid enough not to take drugs all day, every day to make some sense out of this Mephistophelian tragicomedy known as living in the USA:

Most private workplaces require drug testing, but there is no drug testing to get welfare checks.

Alas, on America's way to to communist welfare, it has long since surpassed such bastions of capitalism as China:


The welfare system in communist China is far stringier. Those people have to work to eat.


We have been writing for over a year, how the very top of America's social order steals from the middle class each and every day. [/B]Now we finally know that the very bottom of the entitlement food chain also makes out like a bandit compared to that idiot American who actually works and pays their taxes. One can only also hope that in addition to seeing their disposable income be eaten away by a kleptocratic entitlement state, that the disappearing middle class is also selling off its weaponry. Because if it isn't, and if it finally decides it has had enough, the outcome will not be surprising at all: it will be the same old that has occurred in virtually every revolution in the history of the world to date.
 
there isn't one shred of credible data in that article it is written based on conjecture and opinion. there are far too many factors to determine and in this economy the single parent is most likely a high school dropout which have the higest unemployment numbers during recessions do double-dipping isn't even a factor today, lol

I don't know a single person/mother with several children on welfare that has money in the bank let alone any "disposable" income..LMAO
 
^ Thanks for the comments. There is a graph, but IM doesn't allow that the image on here.

If this data is flawed, I'll delete this thread.

But it caught my attention because "George4Title" first noted this.

I actually do not believe some of the stats, because they are not fixed, and may/may not apply in some cases.

But is this....exaggerrated or incorrect? Is this possible, in certain circumstances?
 
anything is possible. its the US
 
there isn't one shred of credible data in that article it is written based on conjecture and opinion. there are far too many factors to determine and in this economy the single parent is most likely a high school dropout which have the higest unemployment numbers during recessions do double-dipping isn't even a factor today, lol

I don't know a single person/mother with several children on welfare that has money in the bank let alone any "disposable" income..LMAO

I knew tons of them. My brother use to sling drugs after he was injured on a construction for the second time. Both times he ruptured a disc in his lower back. My mom and brother have degenerative disc syndrome. He couldn't get insurance to pay for back surgery the second time (pre existing condition) nor get disability benefits. So he resorted to selling drugs and made an easy $3,000 a month.

In that time, I met some real shitty people. A lot of the females had multiple kids that they didn't raze but collected checks for. Most used and sold drugs and cheated the system for every penny they could. Lets not forget that my brother and these worthless associates of his were selling drugs paid for by medicare and medicaid. They would drive from state to state doctor shopping and collecting all sorts of high dollar black market prescription drugs. Their future criminal kids usually lived with the mother's mother or grandmother. That left many dumb skank and fertile bitches to run around living the life. Meanwhile they are driving brand new cars with brand new cloths and I was working full-time, while going to school full-time, and praying my 8 year old car didn't breakdown.

I know this is anecdotal, but I saw a lot of that shit, so I assume there is a lot of it going on. That kind of shit makes me want to buy a plane ticket to another country. I am one of those people close to the $60,000 bracket. I am already making more than my dad was making in his 50s, yet I can't even begin to consider buying a small house. I don't really have enough for a car note and insurance. This is bullshit. I am burned out, mad ass hell, and on the edge of snapping and giving Uncle Sam the finger.
 
I know this is anecdotal, but I saw a lot of that shit, so I assume there is a lot of it going on. That kind of shit makes me want to buy a plane ticket to another country. I am one of those people close to the $60,000 bracket. I am already making more than my dad was making in his 50s, yet I can't even begin to consider buying a small house. I don't really have enough for a car note and insurance. This is bullshit. I am burned out, mad ass hell, and on the edge of snapping and giving Uncle Sam the finger.

I completely agree with your description above - because I know so many people in my family and and also friends I grew up with.

They work hard (and I assume you do also, Kelju). They do the right thing, as you do. You work a lot, learn, pay taxes, pay your bills, try to save.

You do the right thing.

But is there a pay off?

No.

Not for you and millions of others.

Because you, and my friends and family, are part of the old middle-class, which is a loose label, and honestly, $60,000 is not middle class today. What is, is hard to define.

Because of the payroll taxes, SS, state income taxes, sales taxes, user fees (licencing), and COL (Cost of Living) there is very little, if any or your pay left over - what goes into your pocket - to save on a house, or your future.

There is a transfer of wealth happening. And its coming not from the top 1-5% or the bottom, it's the middle class.

I call it, "treading water."

Working a lot, doing the right thing, but not getting ahead, financially.
 
there isn't one shred of credible data in that article it is written based on conjecture and opinion. there are far too many factors to determine and in this economy the single parent is most likely a high school dropout which have the higest unemployment numbers during recessions do double-dipping isn't even a factor today, lol

I don't know a single person/mother with several children on welfare that has money in the bank let alone any "disposable" income..LMAO

Don't let facts get in the way of opinion and conjecture. What would the powers that be do if we thought for ourselves?
 
I completely agree with your description above - because I know so many people in my family and and also friends I grew up with.

They work hard (and I assume you do also, Kelju). They do the right thing, as you do. You work a lot, learn, pay taxes, pay your bills, try to save.

You do the right thing.

But is there a pay off?

No.

Not for you and millions of others.

Because you, and my friends and family, are part of the old middle-class, which is a loose label, and honestly, $60,000 is not middle class today. What is, is hard to define.

Because of the payroll taxes, SS, state income taxes, sales taxes, user fees (licencing), and COL (Cost of Living) there is very little, if any or your pay left over - what goes into your pocket - to save on a house, or your future.

There is a transfer of wealth happening. And its coming not from the top 1-5% or the bottom, it's the middle class.

I call it, "treading water."

Working a lot, doing the right thing, but not getting ahead, financially.

There is indeed a transfer of wealth occuring. It's the transfer of wealth into the hands of the top 5%. What people get scamming welfare is diddly compared to what the top 5% get by scamming the system. When it's cheaper for you to hire a tax attorney than it is to pay your taxes then that's an indication of a problem in the system. An overall handful of welfare scammers isn't breaking the bank. Depending on where you live you probably encounter more people scamming the system than the next guy does.

KelJu's brother probably wouldn't be doing what he is had the system worked properly so he could get his back problem taken care of. But when you are in a bind you'd be amazed at the things you will do to take care of yourself and those who depend on you. You may say you wouldn't stoop to that, but you may find differently if you were in that situation. Doesn't make it right, but it is what it is.

You have to ask yourself who the bigger scammer is. The guy living off welfare and doing some shady things to get his income up a few thousand or the guy who can afford to pay someone several hundred thousand to keep millions more?
 
I know this is anecdotal, but I saw a lot of that shit, so I assume there is a lot of it going on. That kind of shit makes me want to buy a plane ticket to another country. I am one of those people close to the $60,000 bracket. I am already making more than my dad was making in his 50s, yet I can't even begin to consider buying a small house. I don't really have enough for a car note and insurance. This is bullshit. I am burned out, mad ass hell, and on the edge of snapping and giving Uncle Sam the finger.

If you are making 60k a year you should def be able to own a car and start at least saving for a house. At that annual income you should take home about 4k/month. Do you have a lot of credit card debt, school loans or any other debts? A decent car loan is only 350$/month. I don't know your current situation so I'm just basing it on what you said you make a year.
 
Take home on $60k a year is actually about $3200 a month.
 
Last edited:
Muscle Gelz Transdermals
IronMag Labs Prohormones
Man, this shit is depressing! :fire:
 
If you are making 60k a year you should def be able to own a car and start at least saving for a house. At that annual income you should take home about 4k/month. Do you have a lot of credit card debt, school loans or any other debts? A decent car loan is only 350$/month. I don't know your current situation so I'm just basing it on what you said you make a year.

I said I was close. After taxes I bring home home $2,900 per month. Claiming single and none means I get ass raped harder than you married and breeding people. Now, in a month I have a $450 Sallie Mae Loan, $700 house I rent, utilities are about $350, a $200 phone bill because damn near everyone in my family has a cellphone that I pay for, my commute cost me about $100 in gas, another $100 for car insurance, and $400 I spend on groceries. I also have a $3,000 balance on a discover card that I ran up during college. It was up to $6,000 at one time, and I am still paying that shit at the tune of $200 per month. That leaves me a whooping $400 per month. You know what you do with $400 a month? I'll tell you what you do with $400 a month, NOT SHIT!

I prop up my bank account and wait for the random shit that pops up every month to whittle it down. Last month I had to spend about $300 to get my radiator repaired. This month I had $400 vet bills. I can't wait to go back to Alabama for thanksgiving to get dogshit drunk with my old friends and probably smoke some weed and smile for the first time in months.

Maybe you are better with money than I, but I don't exactly see myself as being irresponsible with my spending.
 
I knew tons of them. My brother use to sling drugs after he was injured on a construction for the second time. Both times he ruptured a disc in his lower back. My mom and brother have degenerative disc syndrome. He couldn't get insurance to pay for back surgery the second time (pre existing condition) nor get disability benefits. So he resorted to selling drugs and made an easy $3,000 a month.

In that time, I met some real shitty people. A lot of the females had multiple kids that they didn't raze but collected checks for. Most used and sold drugs and cheated the system for every penny they could. Lets not forget that my brother and these worthless associates of his were selling drugs paid for by medicare and medicaid. They would drive from state to state doctor shopping and collecting all sorts of high dollar black market prescription drugs. Their future criminal kids usually lived with the mother's mother or grandmother. That left many dumb skank and fertile bitches to run around living the life. Meanwhile they are driving brand new cars with brand new cloths and I was working full-time, while going to school full-time, and praying my 8 year old car didn't breakdown.

I know this is anecdotal, but I saw a lot of that shit, so I assume there is a lot of it going on. That kind of shit makes me want to buy a plane ticket to another country. I am one of those people close to the $60,000 bracket. I am already making more than my dad was making in his 50s, yet I can't even begin to consider buying a small house. I don't really have enough for a car note and insurance. This is bullshit. I am burned out, mad ass hell, and on the edge of snapping and giving Uncle Sam the finger.

when construction was high in the country I'm sure there were "some" people double dipping but is part of that problem not on the employer for paying low skilled workers under the table? any changes in employment are supposed to be reported to welfare so they can adjust the benefits accordingly. and people do get caught because I know I girl who just did and they cut her food stamps in 1/2 because she didn't report part-time income for last jan-feb, her food stamps for her family of 4 were cut from $700 to $350 for an year for what they called an "involuntary" violation.

anyone who has read enough sociology studies on the subject would know that the vast majority of poor people do not wish to rely on the government for financial assistant. that ones that do are simply reciting the same old "anti-poor" rhetoric from the far right
 
Last edited:
in regards to the article also you have to look at the federal poverty level which for a family of 4 is 22k a year for 2009 in 48 states, Alaska's is slightly higher. you would pretty much have to quadruple that number in most states just to have any "disposable" income after housing expenses, energy costs, etc.
 
when construction was high in the country I'm sure there were "some" people double dipping but is part of that problem not on the employer for paying low skilled workers under the table? any changes in employment are supposed to be reported to welfare so they can adjust the benefits accordingly. and people do get caught because I know I girl who just did and they cut her food stamps in 1/2 because she didn't report part-time income for last jan-feb, her food stamps for her family of 4 were cut from $700 to $350 for an year for what they called an "involuntary" violation.

anyone who has read enough sociology studies on the subject would know that the vast majority of poor people do not wish to rely on the government for financial assistant. that ones that do are simply reciting the same old "anti-poor" rhetoric from the far right


Like I said, it was anecdotal. I have no way of knowing how many people cheat the system willingly.
 
I said I was close. After taxes I bring home home $2,900 per month. Claiming single and none means I get ass raped harder than you married and breeding people. Now, in a month I have a $450 Sallie Mae Loan, $700 house I rent, utilities are about $350, a $200 phone bill because damn near everyone in my family has a cellphone that I pay for, my commute cost me about $100 in gas, another $100 for car insurance, and $400 I spend on groceries. I also have a $3,000 balance on a discover card that I ran up during college. It was up to $6,000 at one time, and I am still paying that shit at the tune of $200 per month. That leaves me a whooping $400 per month. You know what you do with $400 a month? I'll tell you what you do with $400 a month, NOT SHIT!

I prop up my bank account and wait for the random shit that pops up every month to whittle it down. Last month I had to spend about $300 to get my radiator repaired. This month I had $400 vet bills. I can't wait to go back to Alabama for thanksgiving to get dogshit drunk with my old friends and probably smoke some weed and smile for the first time in months.

Maybe you are better with money than I, but I don't exactly see myself as being irresponsible with my spending.

You have, what sounds like, a normal situation that most people in their mid to late twenties have. You have a good job now. You will most likely keep making more money. I would just get that discover bill paid down and then work on your sallie mae bills. I know sallie mae is a low interest rate but 450$/ month is a lot. Set out some goals to get this crap paid off. Get rid of anything that is costing you money that you do not need to be spending.
 
I'm all for cutting the costs in certain social services but we first have to identity the causes for the major problem areas and actually act on a solution to see a decrease in the need for funding in those areas before costs can be cut. simply cutting the budget for certain programs isn't going to cause the problem to go away or resolve itself in anyway shape or form, that would have to be the most illogical solution to any social or economic problem.
 
I'm all for cutting the costs in certain social services but we first have to identity the causes for the major problem areas and actually act on a solution to see a decrease in the need for funding in those areas before costs can be cut. simply cutting the budget for certain programs isn't going to cause the problem to go away or resolve itself in anyway shape or form, that would have to be the most illogical solution to any social or economic problem.

What if we "got rid" of the people, who are able to work, but are not working. All the prisoners, that are serving life too. Anybody who basically is a strain on the society that we live in. I think that would help. Trim the fat, so to speak.

Also, birth control should be put in our water system. That way you have to take a pill to get pregnant. In order to get that pill you have to go in front of a judge and state your case why you are capable of raising a family.

I should probably just run for president:)
 
What if we "got rid" of the people, who are able to work, but are not working. All the prisoners, that are serving life too. Anybody who basically is a strain on the society that we live in. I think that would help. Trim the fat, so to speak.

You mean like the people in Congress, the Senate and even the prez.

I shouldn't say that, because they do work, just not for you or I.
 
didn't read the article and don't know the facts and statistics, but I think everyone can agree that a lot of americans do have entitlement issues.
 
I'm all for cutting the costs in certain social services but we first have to identity the causes for the major problem areas and actually act on a solution to see a decrease in the need for funding in those areas before costs can be cut. simply cutting the budget for certain programs isn't going to cause the problem to go away or resolve itself in anyway shape or form, that would have to be the most illogical solution to any social or economic problem.

One problem is the culture of poverty that the expansion of the welfare state breeds. The more assistance that is available, the more people will want to be on it. IDK what the stats are, but if you look @ countries like Sweden, which has some of the most generous programs in the world, you will see a much higher % of the population taking advantage of them. They had unemployment benefits with no time limit, a larger home provided for a family (i.e. extra bedroom) for each additional child a couple had, nannies and baby formula provided, all at the taxpayer's, expense. People on govt subsidies had no incentive to work.

It became so commonplace that, over time, no one even saw much shame in it. Now, it's gotten out of control and cuts are having to be made, and yes, before finding a way to relieve the problems causing people to get on the payroll in the first place. The system itself was the problem.
 
The system itself was the problem.

the "system" you are talking about was started way back in the colonies during the 1800's and was called the British Poor Laws.

if we really want to get technical about making budget cuts then we should do away with the EITC and all "entitlements" or tax credits for families. after all people should only have enough children that they can afford based on their income right? persons with no children should also have to pay less property taxes, etc. after all why should "they" be paying extra taxes to fund the public education for someone elses children?

I'm wondering exactly what type of darwinistic society many of you desire to have here in the US..:hmmm:
 
Last edited:
after all people should only have enough children that they can afford based on their income right? persons with no children should also have to pay less property taxes, etc. after all why should "they" be paying extra taxes to fund the public education for someone elses children?

Couldn't agree more. I lived in an apt before I had kids and guess what. My property taxes were much lower than they are now. If I had 5 kids, god forbid, I'd probably have to move into a bigger house and my property taxes would go up. Perhaps they could be much lower if we got rid of the federal bureaucracy know as the dept. of Ed. That'd be a good start IMO.
 
Perhaps they could be much lower if we got rid of the federal bureaucracy know as the dept. of Ed. That'd be a good start IMO.

and in place of it? and the effects of this would be?
 
Nothing will replace it. We got by just fine with it till Jimmy Carter signed it into law in 1980. Did the overall quality of education in the USA improve as a result? Or, did it just create another giant $trillion bureaucracy to encroach on state sovereignty?
 
I want sum that free cheese
 
these numbers don't warrant total elimination

U.S. Department of Education | The White House

It's not so much that it's THE most costly bureaucracy, but it's just one of many that we could do without. I don't see how overall test scores across the country, drop out rates, and quality justify it. It seems something that can be handled at the state level just fine.

But, I will take some of that govt cheese, on the other hand.
 
Back
Top