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fighting shape...what do i need to train most?
- Thread starter stonev16
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It's no "Hollywood theory." Your legs are much stronger than your arms. Why not use them? Besides, you're talking about actual sports. Those aren't fights to the death. If I were fighting for my life, you bet I'd be kicking and punching, not just standing there boxing someone.
Ever wonder why kick boxers never make it as true Boxers?????Squaggleboggin said:
The movies and the spin of martial arts is cool..................but a good boxer and a good wrestler will kick the shit out of any style martial artist....9x out of 10
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So you're saying that someone trained in the art of fighting, who knows pressure points, the weaknesses and strong points of the body, and how best to implement them, would lose to someone who can simply punch? Something about that seems strange to me...
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Why would he be kicking if he were a boxer? 
From what data are you basing this fact? How could someone trained to kill lose to someone trained to punch? Seriously, it's like saying an army Ranger would lose to an average soldier. Sure, the soldier has basic training, but the Ranger's training is much more specific and deadly.
From what data are you basing this fact? How could someone trained to kill lose to someone trained to punch? Seriously, it's like saying an army Ranger would lose to an average soldier. Sure, the soldier has basic training, but the Ranger's training is much more specific and deadly.Grow up..................van Dam and his ilk are pussy's!Squaggleboggin said:Why would he be kicking if he were a boxer?
name a great martial artist.....list his weight and I will name a great boxer who would destroy him in 20 seconds in a street fight....
let me guess Bruce Lee is your only champ...........................................................................................................................and he is.
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Why are you mentioning movie stars? What do they have anything to do with this conversation? I never said anything about movie stars or Hollywood... that was all you. I'm talking about a professional martial artist who takes his work seriously. You're talking about fake movie stars. If you really think that someone who could only punch in a fight could beat someone who had no limit as to what he could do, something's wrong with your logic. Punches, kicks, holds, pressure points, they're all real, not something from a movie. I'd rather know how to do all of those than just punch. I think you might be surprised how effective things other than punching are. Do you have any reasoning behind your 'boxers kick ass' theory, or do you just hate karate movie stars?
Bruce Lee was a movie star.....................and the Ali of martial artsSquaggleboggin said:
Martial arts can aid your fighting style but...................thats it.
They can train hard for years..............................but a good boxer and/or wrestler will kill them moist of the time.............................have you ever read Bruce Lee's book ???
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That still doesn't answer the question. You basically told me that you'd learn martial arts to win a fight. Why would a boxer win? The question is as clear as I can make it. He can punch. A martial artist can do this as well, along with many other, more deadly things. Explain your reasoning.
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Wow. I'm sorry I ever tried having an intelligent conversation with you. And they say our youth is sad...
ill preface this by saying i have acheieved a black belt in martial arts...
martial arts are shit. boxing is where its at if you want to fight.
i have to agree with foreman on this. think about it. have you ever watched mike tyson fight? or george foreman?or butterbean? if you have, im sure you would agree.
kicks arent pratical because they leave you with a small center of gravity and they leave you open for more attacks. if someone kicked at me, id grab their leg, pull them down and hit them in the face. also think about it this way.. a fist is smaller than a foot, so even though its less shear force, its moving quicker and a smaller point of impact=more likely to do more damage.
i feel very strongly that an angry mike tyson could beat the shit out of any martial artist you throw at him.
and oh ya.. i bet Iron Mike can punch harder than you can kick.
martial arts are shit. boxing is where its at if you want to fight.
i have to agree with foreman on this. think about it. have you ever watched mike tyson fight? or george foreman?or butterbean? if you have, im sure you would agree.
kicks arent pratical because they leave you with a small center of gravity and they leave you open for more attacks. if someone kicked at me, id grab their leg, pull them down and hit them in the face. also think about it this way.. a fist is smaller than a foot, so even though its less shear force, its moving quicker and a smaller point of impact=more likely to do more damage.
i feel very strongly that an angry mike tyson could beat the shit out of any martial artist you throw at him.
and oh ya.. i bet Iron Mike can punch harder than you can kick.
Ok - may as well add my two (2) cents worth...I love a good fight.
If we're talking street fighting - you need to be able to punch, fight (aka duck, weave, take a hit, etc) and wrestle (aka judo or roman wrestling - not the WWE stuff). Punching alone won't win you a fight as all fights turn into a wrestle sooner or later.
And FR is right - kicking is useless in a fight unless you're in a martial arts competition.
Punching with a boxer mentality will also be useless in a street fight because boxers are used to gloves and head punches - but a head punch without a glove will leave you with broken bones all over the shop. Emergency wards are full of people who have supposedly "won" fights because they drew blood by hitting some guy in the lips and making his lip bleed. If you're going to do any head punch you need make it a hook so it's a glancing blow to the jaw to knock him out cold and do as little damage to your own hand as possible.
Also you need to let the guy wear himself out first - most people have no idea how to fight and throw all of these wild punches in a fit half of which don't connect and are worn out in thirty (30) seconds. So you block most of his blows, step aside of them, and then come in at the end and either throw him to the ground or punch the hell out of his worn out self.
So to answer your question:
1. You should train to fight to win fights (not just train to box or train to kick box);
2. You should train to wrestle;
3. You should be fit enough to outlast your opponent - he will go for 30 seconds of fury so you need to be able to avoid his 30 seconds of fury and then unleash a minute of your fury on him; and
4. As far as weights go - a good core and the right technique should be all you need.
Now go forth and fight daniel son....and remember wax-on, wax-off...
If we're talking street fighting - you need to be able to punch, fight (aka duck, weave, take a hit, etc) and wrestle (aka judo or roman wrestling - not the WWE stuff). Punching alone won't win you a fight as all fights turn into a wrestle sooner or later.
And FR is right - kicking is useless in a fight unless you're in a martial arts competition.
Punching with a boxer mentality will also be useless in a street fight because boxers are used to gloves and head punches - but a head punch without a glove will leave you with broken bones all over the shop. Emergency wards are full of people who have supposedly "won" fights because they drew blood by hitting some guy in the lips and making his lip bleed. If you're going to do any head punch you need make it a hook so it's a glancing blow to the jaw to knock him out cold and do as little damage to your own hand as possible.
Also you need to let the guy wear himself out first - most people have no idea how to fight and throw all of these wild punches in a fit half of which don't connect and are worn out in thirty (30) seconds. So you block most of his blows, step aside of them, and then come in at the end and either throw him to the ground or punch the hell out of his worn out self.
So to answer your question:
1. You should train to fight to win fights (not just train to box or train to kick box);
2. You should train to wrestle;
3. You should be fit enough to outlast your opponent - he will go for 30 seconds of fury so you need to be able to avoid his 30 seconds of fury and then unleash a minute of your fury on him; and
4. As far as weights go - a good core and the right technique should be all you need.
Now go forth and fight daniel son....and remember wax-on, wax-off...
Also - as for style if we're talking actual fighting - look at old school ultimate fighting (before they had to change the rules to make it an actual competition so the same guys didn't always win) and tell me which style is best.
stonev16 said:
come down my gym and ill lay you out within 30sec's! you'll never be a good fighter unless you change your mentality my friend! to be a good boxer you need to be calm and focused not all pent up.
When I was training boxing, there was only one time where I thought of getting into
it with anyone.
I was at a club with my GF & some of her friends, some dirty old rich guy was drunk and wouldn't leave them alone...
I told to him to get lost, and this immobile juiced up bouncer
comes to the old guys defense
(I guess he spent a lot of money in there)
So of course the living MUSCLEHEDZ has got like 30 puonds on me.
We were in a mildly crowded area
(so no martial arts kicks could be thrown here)
In the split second it took to let my adrenaline spike, I had visualized 5 different ways to hit him, he would have been destroyed
Before I could demolish the human bicep, the thing was broken up by the owner, who knew me, and was friends with my old boxing coach
Then some time later I was talking to one of the other bouncers
@ the gym (where @ the time I was teaching boxing for teens), and he said they were all making fun of this guy after that,
telling him - "you would've got your ass kicked"
That gave me a warm fuzzy -
it with anyone.
I was at a club with my GF & some of her friends, some dirty old rich guy was drunk and wouldn't leave them alone...
I told to him to get lost, and this immobile juiced up bouncer
comes to the old guys defense
(I guess he spent a lot of money in there)
So of course the living MUSCLEHEDZ has got like 30 puonds on me.
We were in a mildly crowded area
(so no martial arts kicks could be thrown here)
In the split second it took to let my adrenaline spike, I had visualized 5 different ways to hit him, he would have been destroyed
Before I could demolish the human bicep, the thing was broken up by the owner, who knew me, and was friends with my old boxing coach
Then some time later I was talking to one of the other bouncers
@ the gym (where @ the time I was teaching boxing for teens), and he said they were all making fun of this guy after that,
telling him - "you would've got your ass kicked"
That gave me a warm fuzzy -
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Ive watched fighting (boxing, UFC, K1, kickboxing, etc.) for sometime now, and I have 2 words for all of you.
Hoyce Gracie.
Bottom line, if you can take a punch, kick, or anything else your opponent throws at you; put him on the ground and hold a pressure point, you will win.
Hoyce Gracie.
Bottom line, if you can take a punch, kick, or anything else your opponent throws at you; put him on the ground and hold a pressure point, you will win.
Yeah but the average juiced up BB, is the opposite of all thisPTYP said:
they are usually unflexible and slow.
I would be more afraid to mess with a beer bellied biker type
I said "average" BB -PTYP said:
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PTYP said:
Royce Gracie, all they're names start with an R something about strength in that letter or someshit (Royler, Ryan etc)
you gotta understand that to utilize BJJ in a street fight you have to commit to the fight completely. Noone's gonna tap out in a fight you'll have to actually break a limb or something to end it because as soon as you let go of of the arm bar or w/e you're gonna catch a fist to the mouth. i personally don't know if i'd be able to just break someone's arm like that, guess if i'm angry enough. also pure strength can win you a fight, especially if it gets to grappling. me and my bro always fuck around and wrestle and shit, he has wrestling experience and i don't and we are about the same weight. so when it comes to technique i get my ass whipped but there are situations where my strength would just demolish him in a real fight, i mean can literally pick him up from the floor while he is in the middle of trying to arm bar me or something from that position i can just slam his head into the ground which will end the fight pretty quickly on the street.
bottom line to be a well rounded fighter you really need a combination of everything...but we're talking street fights so go take an MMA class for a month and you'll beat the shit out of 90% of the guys on the street cause frankly people don't know how to fight, they just start throwing hay makers and shit without any thought or strategy.
I would say quick jabs are probably tricep strength because you move the rest of your body very little.
However, I would say punches with a little more power are lower body and core strength. Your lower body and hips transfer a lot of power via your core to rotate your torso with more speed.
Also, you're going to want to train for power and speed, not just strength.
However, I would say punches with a little more power are lower body and core strength. Your lower body and hips transfer a lot of power via your core to rotate your torso with more speed.
Also, you're going to want to train for power and speed, not just strength.
CowPimp said:
The jab uses the whole body
because a true jab causes you to extend your shoulder forward
(protecting the chin)
and rotate the hip into it, to back up the power
If you throw a jab without rotating or extending, you lose like
8 inches or more, of reach?!
The perfect jab is like snapping a bullwhip...
The power builds from the base where it is large,
it transfers all the way down to the thinner end,
where that large amount of
power is focused into a smaller area
until !!CRACK!!
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The Monkey Man said:
The jab uses the whole body
because a true jab causes you to extend your shoulder forward
(protecting the chin)
and rotate the hip into it, to back up the power
If you throw a jab without rotating or extending, you lose like
8 inches or more, of reach?!
The perfect jab is like snapping a bullwhip...
The power builds from the base where it is large,
it transfers all the way down to the thinner end,
where that large amount of
power is focused into a smaller area
until !!CRACK!!
Makes sense. I was kind of just speculating. I don't really know too much about fighting; I should have made this clear.
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I don't either. I was just sort of looking for a reason as to why kicks wouldn't be good. I realize that someone can grab your leg, but when I took Tae Kwon Do (or however you spell it) for a short time, one of the first things they taught me was to kick fast and pull your leg back faster. I figured that a professional martial artist would actually have this mastered. I've always wanted to get into a fight just to see what it's like and know my own weaknesses, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
The people that fight to see if they can fight are the assholes you
ALLLLLLWAYS see at the bar, punching the shit out of each other
If not, then they are bumping you and posturing -
The problem is, if they do that to me,
I will just smile and act like I'm having a good time -
Some chump did that to a friend of mine before
(a total redneck friend from Kentucky)
He didn't say anything to any of us, or make a face or anything...
But the guy brushed him like 4 times walking back and forth in a crowded bar...
The 4th time my buddy looks at the guy says something like
"hey man, there are just a ton of hot chicks in here"
he introduced himself to the guy, and said...
"This place is great, I am having a fantastic time tonight"
When the guy turned around to walk away obviously bummed at my friends
non-aggression.
My buddy picked up this, rotating tray thing that had
napkins, straws, matches, salt, pepper, ketchup and mustard on it...
He goes "Oh hey man"... & when the guy turned around,
he lifted the tray-rack thing up to the north pole
and slammed it down onto the guy's face and head!!!
The whole thing seemed like it happened in less than 2 seconds
I stood there in disbelief, I couldn't believe I had just seen that happen!?
Absolutely no warning -
And my buddy didn't even have a reaction!?!?
He turned around and started talking to us like it didn't happen
and we didn't get kicked out!?!?
The guy just crawled away somehow
and moments later, a waitress came by, saw the mess and sent the
bus-boy to clean it up
ALLLLLLWAYS see at the bar, punching the shit out of each other
If not, then they are bumping you and posturing -
The problem is, if they do that to me,
I will just smile and act like I'm having a good time -
Some chump did that to a friend of mine before
(a total redneck friend from Kentucky)
He didn't say anything to any of us, or make a face or anything...
But the guy brushed him like 4 times walking back and forth in a crowded bar...
The 4th time my buddy looks at the guy says something like
"hey man, there are just a ton of hot chicks in here"
he introduced himself to the guy, and said...
"This place is great, I am having a fantastic time tonight"
When the guy turned around to walk away obviously bummed at my friends
non-aggression.
My buddy picked up this, rotating tray thing that had
napkins, straws, matches, salt, pepper, ketchup and mustard on it...
He goes "Oh hey man"... & when the guy turned around,
he lifted the tray-rack thing up to the north pole
and slammed it down onto the guy's face and head!!!
The whole thing seemed like it happened in less than 2 seconds
I stood there in disbelief, I couldn't believe I had just seen that happen!?
Absolutely no warning -
And my buddy didn't even have a reaction!?!?
He turned around and started talking to us like it didn't happen
and we didn't get kicked out!?!?
The guy just crawled away somehow
and moments later, a waitress came by, saw the mess and sent the
bus-boy to clean it up
Ddevildownn
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To answer the original post, I would reccomend looking in the training sections in MMA sites like sherdog.net, they will have some very good advice to give you. Also look for some Brazillian Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai boxing classes for fight training.
To adress the issue of whether or not kicking or punching is better in a real fight the answer is neither, both are, that or have the skill to take your opponent to the ground and beginning joint manipulations. At the top level of MMA most of the Stand up fighters do not throw punches or kicks exclusively, which would be retarded, they throw what suits the situation best.
If you want to know the true pain of kicks, download some Mirko Cro Cop highlights.
To adress the issue of whether or not kicking or punching is better in a real fight the answer is neither, both are, that or have the skill to take your opponent to the ground and beginning joint manipulations. At the top level of MMA most of the Stand up fighters do not throw punches or kicks exclusively, which would be retarded, they throw what suits the situation best.
If you want to know the true pain of kicks, download some Mirko Cro Cop highlights.
learn how to snap punches off your hips and throw hooks perfectly then go and get into bar and streetfights as much as possible. I agree with foreman rules I watch a lot of MMA and the kicker always gets KO'd by the pucher.
In terms of exercise most kick boxers do pretty basic workouts.
Press-ups (wide and narrow grip), sit-ups, bag work and lots of cardio. I've done a few years of kick boxing in the past in several gyms and not seen anything much more than that.
Press-ups (wide and narrow grip), sit-ups, bag work and lots of cardio. I've done a few years of kick boxing in the past in several gyms and not seen anything much more than that.
