Flax seed oil

[Jenny]

Originally posted by gopro
You are better off not using flax at your 1st POST workout meal because we need the protein and carbs in our systems as quickly as possible at this time. Flax, like any fat, will slow absorption of protein and carbs.

I'm on DP/W8 low-carb.. Should I try getting the few carbs I do eat in my post workout meal? Did not think of the slowed avsorption.. Protein alone would not be good either, right? Dang, I wanted those carbs for b-fast!

 

[w8lifter]

Originally posted by Nike_Girl
I'm on DP/W8 low-carb.. Should I try getting the few carbs I do eat in my post workout meal? Did not think of the slowed avsorption.. Protein alone would not be good either, right? Dang, I wanted those carbs for b-fast!

Keep your carbs at breakfast if you like....we don't do PWO spike, but if you wanted to do your carbs PWO you could, though you still need the fat in your PWO meal.

 

[gopro]

I can't speak directly about W8 and DPs plan, but in my opinion your carbs should be taken post workout without fats. Depending on how many daily carbs you take in, you can take 1/3 with breakfast and the other 2/3 with post workout. Post workout carbs are too important to miss out on IMO.

 

[Dr. Pain]

OK...I'm entering the fray! This is JMHO and I expect NO flaming...this thread had to be closed on 'another' board because people couldn't accept an "opinion" that was contrary to "conventional wisdom"

This is for those CUTTING ONLY!

First:

BTW...flax doesn't taste that bad...and you shouldn't cook w/it....low smoking point. Add it to food after it is cooked and still hot.

You will find that meso-endo's and endo's esp....would benefit more by keeping their metabolism/glucagon/fat oxidation elevated, rather than reducing cortisol and inducing insulin by omitting fat and/or fiber PWO?


Additionally speaking of adding fat/fiber....most w/strong metabolisms don't need to do this, the ones with slower/poorer metabolisms wonder why they can't get lean when they don't this, LOL

But then again, this is about "our philosophies" (DP and w8's)..and we may agree or disagree. And we are only speaking in the context of cutting....where a person may place "fat burning" ahead of "Optimal Recovery"


TBC (to be continued) FYI these are snippits from w8's Journal when I didn't notice her early reply was over a year od

DP

 

[Dr. Pain]

more......

We had (w8 and I) discussed were PWO shakes (protein/simple sugars) and such may be beneficial to non-IR's, slower carbs plus protein for the next metabolic class...and for the IR masses who cut..... We are of the unified contention of "Why waste 3 hours leaving low insulin space, and 3 hours getting back to were you would have been, 6 hours....for the sake of recovery versus fat loss/oxidation"

We further agreed that the post W/O meal when cutting fell in it's time slot...as to gastic emptying....2-2.5 hours post shake, 3 hours post solid meal, irregardless.....and if the metabolism stayed elevated...so be it?

TBC

DP

 

[Dr. Pain]

Is was then brought up by Cornfield:

Originally posted by cornfed
Actually, I'm a meso w/ moderate endo-tendencies. My metabolism isn't that gr8

"fat-burning" or catabolism but what the sh!t?

I replied:

There are "ways" to prevent/forestall catabolism my Corny friend, that don't involve insulin spiking!

The trouble with insulin spiking/surging...and your "endo" tendencies...is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to determine the proper level of carbohydrate/glycogen replenishment for your degree of hepatic/skeletal depletion, IR response or lack of one, and blood chemistry at the moment!

Unless you know your body extremely well.........it's a very very difficult science. It's so much easier just not to "go there!"

Cornbro.... apparently owns a glucometer and felt he had this wired....(unless I was missing something, if so excuse me please)

This point was....most don't know if 75 grams of carbs, 50 grams or even 35 grams...... that sets off an insulin cascade that goes beyond glycogen replacement to Lipogenesis. It's easier/more practical to use tried and true cutting techniques that yeild maximum results, again taking into account your somatotype, metabolism, and blood chemistry at the time......


DP

 

[Jenny]

Thank you Dp/WB! and Gopro!

I'll continue with what I'm doing.. Thanks

 

[gopro]

Well, DP is correct in the respect that when I work with athletes on a one on one basis, the nutrition is very personalized as each person has slightly different needs according to age, metabolism, workout schedule, the sport involved, and whether performance enhancing drugs are used. However, in my experience the post workout carb meal is vital even when in a cutting phase...b/c while the goal is to lose bodyfat there is another goal...to keep as much lean tissue as possible. The post workout carb feeding is very important in this respect. Couple this with the fact that your metabolism will be "set up" to store carbs in muscle tissue rather than fat tissue after a hard workout, I feel that post workout meals should have carbs. When cutting I may have the person adjust the TYPE of carb used PW, but they will almost invariably take in carbs.

This is my experience and opinion.

 

[P-funk]

When cutting I may have the person adjust the TYPE of carb used PW, but they will almost invariably take in carbs.

What type of carbs do you consume post w/o? What type of carbs do you recommend post w/o?

 

[tidalwaverus]

Glad I just take the pills and no I'm not going to bite one just to find out.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by P-funk
What type of carbs do you consume post w/o? What type of carbs do you recommend post w/o?

While in a non-dieting phase I will use dextrose as a PW carb source. When shifting into a cutting phase I will switch to white rice, rice cakes, or white potatos. As my contest draws near I will switch to lower GI carbs.

 

[lean_n_76er]

Originally posted by lean_n_76er
OK, here's a good question for you... if you are not supposed to drink flax with your post workout shake... and you should take it with your protein before bed time... when should I take mine... I get home from work, work out and then go to bed. BTW, I work nights, that's why. Hope you can help.

Can someone PLEASE answer my question???

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by lean_n_76er
Can someone PLEASE answer my question???

What type of protein are you taking in before bed? Are you taking in any carbs at this time?

 

[w8lifter]

Originally posted by lean_n_76er
Can someone PLEASE answer my question???

IMO...you should make sure that meal has fat added to it.

 

[johnnymac]

If you dont like the taste take it from a gel cap (1000mg), its hell of alot easier to swallow... Well the pills look like crickets, I feel i'm on fear factor everytime im trying to swallow one.. there huge! Also buy flax seeds in a bag, just sprinkle them on cereal or in rice etc... Better then drinking 10w30.

 

[w8lifter]

...except that to get the proper amt of flax you need to take 14 caps at once Not to mention how $$$ that is.

 

[Nigeepoo]

Originally posted by gopro
Wow...a flax attack! Flax can be used anytime during the day, except post workout. One to 3 tablespoons per day is good for most. When on a very low carb diet, this stuff is a lifesaver. Either put it in a drink or over rice or just drink it...YOU CAN HANDLE IT...its not that bad, especially when you chase it with a doughnut...oops, just kidding!

Udo's Choice is a great oil as it is even better balanced in EFA's than regular flax...but if you don't have access to it, flax will work fine.

Note: other healthy oils...safflower, borage, primrose, virgin olive, canola, fish oils.

I have to disagree about safflower oil being healthy. Along with sunflower oil, corn oil, soybean oil, peanut oil and cottonseed oil, it has waaaay too much omega-6 PUFA (linoleic acid). As modern meats, fowls & eggs have too much omega-6 compared to omega-3, adding even more omega-6 is inadvisable.

This is why flax oil is beneficial. It's ~59% alpha-linolenic acid. Walnuts are another good source of a-la. Fish oil is rich in eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acids, two other types of omega-3 PUFA's. As a-la has three "cis" C=C bonds, it is very easy to change one or more to a "trans" C=C bond by heating. Trans-fats are most undesirable (except for CLA) and should be avoided like the plague. PUFA's also oxidise very rapidly becoming rancid. Another reason to keep them cool, dark and away from air (don't leave the lid off the bottle).

See below for a comparison of some dietary fats: -

See below for a description of the omega-6 and omega-3 pathways: -

See http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/tripping.html

 

[Dr. Pain]

Very nice post!

My recent research (and I haven't read this yet) is showing a link between PUFA's and hypothyroidism.


DP

 

[Nigeepoo]

Originally posted by Dr. Pain
Very nice post!

My recent research (and I haven't read this yet) is showing a link between PUFA's and hypothyroidism.


DP

Hmmm, any particular PUFA's?

As I have hypothyroidism due to a knackered pituitary, I'm eating/drinking creamed coconut and coconut milk as it's rich in caprylic, capric and lauric acids, three MCFA's. This increased my FT4 level from 9.8pmol/l to ~15pmol/l before I was prescribed thyroxine.

See http://www.coconut-info.com/mcts.htm
and
http://www.coconut-info.com/hypothyroidism_and_virgin_coconut_oil.htm

 

[w8lifter]

I like him ...good post

 

[gopro]

Safflower oil is not unhealthy. It may not be one of the very best oils, but it is not unhealty. Finding a balance is the key.

 

[Dr. Pain]

I'm not sayig it's unhealthly....as a matter of fat...err..fact.....we like the n-6/3 ratio in SF as a perfect compliment to 3/6's in Flax. .....assuming there aren't too many 6's already in your diet

However I do believe...and please correct me if I'm wrong, most SF oil is refined or partially refined, using both chemicals, higher tempatures and possibly bleaches....as opposed to cold pressed unrefined oils

DP

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by Dr. Pain
I'm not sayig it's unhealthly....as a matter of fat...err..fact.....we like the n-6/3 ratio in SF as a perfect compliment to 3/6's in Flax. .....assuming there aren't too many 6's already in your diet

However I do believe...and please correct me if I'm wrong, most SF oil is refined or partially refined, using both chemicals, higher tempatures and possibly bleaches....as opposed to cold pressed unrefined oils

DP

I believe you are right in that most brands of SF oil is refined or partially so...ruining most of the benefits. There are brands that are unrefined though...no?

 

[Dr. Pain]

I don't think so.....if there is one it would be at florahealth.com

DP

 

[lean_n_76er]

Thanks for the info W8 - I do take a TBSP of flax with the protein before bed/post w/o.

GP - no, I don't take any carbs w/ post w/o shake.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by lean_n_76er
Thanks for the info W8 - I do take a TBSP of flax with the protein before bed/post w/o.

GP - no, I don't take any carbs w/ post w/o shake.

In my opinion you should be getting some carbs in along with the flax. Even though it is right before bed, your body needs those carbs for glycogen storage and to lower cortisol levels. High cortisol will interfere with GH release that you will get during sleep. I would do this whether cutting or bulking.

 

[Dr. Pain]

JMHO....I wouldn't get those carbs unless you are glycogen deplete....they will raise insulin levels and cause faster clearing (gastric emptying) of the valualbe amino peptides, during the coming fast (sleep).

As for Cortisol.....it normally peaks late afternoon (3 PM)....unless you train in the evening....and is naturally lowest while you sleep. If need be, take glutamine or BCAA's alone 45 minutes before your bedtime meal.......either will reduce excess cortisol.

JMHO

DP

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by Dr. Pain
JMHO....I wouldn't get those carbs unless you are glycogen deplete....they will raise insulin levels and cause faster clearing (gastric emptying) of the valualbe amino pepetides, during the coming fast (sleep).

As for Cortisol.....it normally peaks late afternoon (3 PM)....unless you train in the evening....and is naturally lowest while you sleep. If need be, take glutamine or BCAA's alone 45 minutes before your bedtime meal.......either will reduce excess cortisol.

JMHO

DP

I believe he does train at night and then goes to bed. If he trains with any intensity he will be depleting glcycogen and will need to replenish. If he uses medium glycemic carbs and flax then insulin will not rise too quickly and he will still get his carbs. He can also use a whey and casein mix in order to slow the gastric emptying of the aminos.

I am a firm believer that if you do not combine protein with carbs after training (amounts to be adjusted depending on the phase you are in), you will hinder the growth process.

JMHO

GP

 

[ectomorph141]

I am a hard gainer and just was told to take my flax post w/o. Should I take it at a different time?

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by ectomorph141
I am a hard gainer and just was told to take my flax post w/o. Should I take it at a different time?

I would take it with breakfast, pre workout and before bed.