Gastrocnemius v.s. Soleus - rep range and tempo

[Phineas]

I've been reading a lot about the differences between the two muscles of the calves. One thing I didn't know before was that the Gastrocnemius is fast-twitch while the Soleus is slow-twitch. And so, I wondered: would it be more efficient to train the former at a faster pace and the latter at a slower pace?

Also, given said difference, would it be more efficient to train the muscles with different rep ranges/intensity? Or, should I train the two equally?

I've just re-introduced seated calf raises to one of my two programs. I had been doing a variety of straight-legged calf extensions because (a) they work both muscles and (b) I'll admit that I was thinking only about the muscle you "see". But, I read the Soleus makes up 60% of the calf, and so, even if you don't see it, it still supports the Gastrocnemius and will add to overall size and strength.

You live you learn.

 

[Built]

I've been reading a lot about the differences between the two muscles of the calves. One thing I didn't know before was that the Gastrocnemius is fast-twitch while the Soleus is slow-twitch. And so, I wondered: would it be more efficient to train the former at a faster pace and the latter at a slower pace?

Also, given said difference, would it be more efficient to train the muscles with different rep ranges/intensity? Or, should I train the two equally?

I've just re-introduced seated calf raises to one of my two programs. I had been doing a variety of straight-legged calf extensions because (a) they work both muscles and (b) I'll admit that I was thinking only about the muscle you "see". But, I read the Soleus makes up 60% of the calf, and so, even if you don't see it, it still supports the Gastrocnemius and will add to overall size and strength.

You live you learn.

Predominately fast-twitch muscles like gastrocs don't take as many reps to activate because of the size principal - smaller motor units are recruited before larger motor-units, right? Slow-twitch muscles belong to smaller motor units so they tend to be recruited earlier in your set. If you've only got a few of those relative to the fast-twitch, you'll hit up the fast twitch within a few reps. In predominately slow-twitch muscles like soleus, it takes a lot more reps to get past the legions of small motor-units to get to the fast-twitch, so yeah, rep those suckers out.

(As an aside, I use this principal on stubborn muscles that tend to not respond and grow as well as others on my own body. For instance, my quads seem to respond better to higher rep-ranges, as do my pecs and delts. My untested conjecture is that I may have a slightly greater proportion of slow-twitch to fast-twitch than "typical" in these areas, so repping out a few more than I used to probably helps me get to the fast-twitch, but I'm speculating).

Another thing to pay attention to is the fact that the soleus is basically a spring - it functions to return kinetic energy so you don't tire out your calves by walking. It may take a few seconds at the bottom of each rep to allow this stored energy to dissipate, so you can try a three-second pause at the bottom of each rep when you do your calf work.

PS did you used to read "Freak Brothers" comics, Phineas?

 

[Phineas]

awesome! thanks for the info...i love to get answers like that..very detailed, down to the CNS...that's why I love this board

never heard of the Freak Brothers..why do you ask?

 

[Phineas]

Actually, I just thought of another side question if you don't mind. So, you gave me the green light on higher reps for the Soleus, but should I still train them with some degree of periodization?

For instance, my two six-week programs are based on percentages of my max-reps (or just intensity relative to the given week's rep range..i.e. what I can handle properly for 3x7, 4x3-5, etc). And so, each week my volume, rep range, and intensity is different. However, as I'm gearing towards strength/mass my rep range never exceeds 3x10. I'm okay with training the Soleus at rep ranges that don't match the rest of my training, but how would I periodize my Soleus training?

For instance, would one week be 4x12, followed by weeks of 3x20, 4x15, etc?

Or, should I stick to the same rep range?

Thanks again!

 

[Built]

awesome! thanks for the info...i love to get answers like that..very detailed, down to the CNS...that's why I love this board

never heard of the Freak Brothers..why do you ask?

Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually, I just thought of another side question if you don't mind. So, you gave me the green light on higher reps for the Soleus, but should I still train them with some degree of periodization?

For instance, my two six-week programs are based on percentages of my max-reps (or just intensity relative to the given week's rep range..i.e. what I can handle properly for 3x7, 4x3-5, etc). And so, each week my volume, rep range, and intensity is different. However, as I'm gearing towards strength/mass my rep range never exceeds 3x10. I'm okay with training the Soleus at rep ranges that don't match the rest of my training, but how would I periodize my Soleus training?

For instance, would one week be 4x12, followed by weeks of 3x20, 4x15, etc?

Or, should I stick to the same rep range?

Thanks again!

I honestly don't know. Calves seem to respond well to overtraining and food - I was a fat jogger. My calves are HUGE.

Perhaps ask Patrick - he's forgotten more than I've ever known about periodization.

 

[Phineas]

PS did you used to read "Freak Brothers" comics, Phineas?

If you're wondering where I got Phineas, check this out...

famguyclips :: Phineas & Barnaby video by h_krustofski - Photobucket

 

[Phineas]

Also, are there any exercises besides seated calf raises where the Soleus is the primary trained muscle? Since the legs have to be bent I can't think of how else you'd do it, aside from maybe jump squats, but those are compound and power (which is not what I'm concerned with in this case).

 

[Built]

Nothing comes to mind. Maybe ask Patrick about that one, too.

 

[ELang11]

I've been reading a lot about the differences between the two muscles of the calves. One thing I didn't know before was that the Gastrocnemius is fast-twitch while the Soleus is slow-twitch. And so, I wondered: would it be more efficient to train the former at a faster pace and the latter at a slower pace?

Also, given said difference, would it be more efficient to train the muscles with different rep ranges/intensity? Or, should I train the two equally?

Speaking purely from physiology, the question is not whether you should train at a faster/slower pace, but instead how much force you are supplying (i.e. how much weight, albeit sprinting is somewhat equivalent to high weight / high force). Type 1 fibers (slow twitch, like the soleus) are designed to essentially do infinite low-weight reps. They do not tire as quickly over time. They are designed to keep going and going (think hours of constant contractions). Type 2 fibers (fast twitch, which gastroc has a lot of) are designed for more explosive high-force contractions, but tire much more quickly than type 1 fibers. If you want to target the Type 2, then do high weight low reps.

That being said, if you're going for glamour muscles, then the fast-twitch muscles (in this case gastroc) almost always have much greater size due to the larger necessary cross sectional area required for greater force generation. Soleus may make up a significant volume of the calf, but gastroc hypertrophy is what is really going to stand out superficially. Slow twitch muscles don't hypertrophy as much as fast twitch, because gains in slow twitch are usually endurance gains (increase the number of mitochondria, increase microvascularization etc.) that allow it to have better endurance, which doesn't translate to larger size. Additionally, due to the Henneman Size Principle, if you are recruiting gastroc then you are definitely recruiting soleus as well. Type 1 is recruited first, and when they can't lift the weight, then the type 2's are recruited. Go high weight low rep and you will hit both of them.

 

[bjg]

Also, are there any exercises besides seated calf raises where the Soleus is the primary trained muscle? Since the legs have to be bent I can't think of how else you'd do it, aside from maybe jump squats, but those are compound and power (which is not what I'm concerned with in this case).

i train legs including calves once a week , and then i train calves alone another time.
I use the smith machine and stand on the edge of a step and do calf raises ( the bar is on my shoulders like in squatting). 3 sets knees and feet slightly pointing out and 3 sets feet slightly pointing inwards. each set 10-15 reps. It will hit all the parts of your calves. when performing a rep go down slowly all the way and go up somewhat faster and stay up for a second (pause) before going down again.

 

[ManoMan1117]

I've been reading a lot about the differences between the two muscles of the calves. One thing I didn't know before was that the Gastrocnemius is fast-twitch while the Soleus is slow-twitch. And so, I wondered: would it be more efficient to train the former at a faster pace and the latter at a slower pace?

Also, given said difference, would it be more efficient to train the muscles with different rep ranges/intensity? Or, should I train the two equally?

I've just re-introduced seated calf raises to one of my two programs. I had been doing a variety of straight-legged calf extensions because (a) they work both muscles and (b) I'll admit that I was thinking only about the muscle you "see". But, I read the Soleus makes up 60% of the calf, and so, even if you don't see it, it still supports the Gastrocnemius and will add to overall size and strength.

You live you learn.

Not to be a dick but there is no such thing as a pre-determined fast twitch or slow twitch muscle. The fiber types that make up your individual muscle are different for each individual person based on genetics. There is no such thing as "the gastroc is a fast twitch muscle" and the same can be said for any muscle in the body. I agree with most of the advice though, again not trying to be a dick just wanted to make it clear so people don't get confused.

 

[~RaZr~]

Way to go guys...

...you bumped a thread from 2009