gym machines.

[UFC rocks]

hi guys, as some off you may know by now, i workout at home and can only do free weight exercises. i know that if you use mainly machines and then try free weights you will not be able to do as much weight, because you will be using more stabilizing muscles. my friend goes to the gym and mainly uses the machines, but sometime he trains with me at my house and we use free weights, i can do a fair bit more than him in petty much every exercise. he has now asked me to come to the gym with him to see how much i can do on some of the machines where you place the pin in it.

because i have never used the machines before will i not be as good on them as i am on the free weights, or will the same rule apply for me and i will be able to do more weight with the machine because there is no balanceing work involed?

my second question is kind off related to the first one^ in order to lift some thing would you need to train the muscles being used in that lift, or train for the movement. what i mean is, i think it was on this site, (not sure) were someone was saying he works for a place that moves around furniture and his mate who goes to the gym and is really big and strong in most lifts was helping him out. but his mate was finding it harder than him and a few people replyed saying that he wasnt used to the movements and thats why he found it harder. they said that moving a couch or coffee table isnt like any one particular lift he would do in the gym, and he wasnt used to the movement.

but because all his muscles are stronger, includeing the ones being used in moving the furniture should he still find it easy. i just find it hard to imagine a big guy who is strong in most lifts in the gym finding moveing furniture differcult. but thats why i am asking the question here, you guys are the experts not me.

so does lifting thing depend on getting used to the movement or the muscles being used?

i now that my questions are queit long so thank you to anyone who replys.

 

[chiquita6683]

i dont really know, im no expert either but heres my experience.

im not a mom, hardly ever around kids. anyway i was shopping with my friend and her daughter, and her daughters 8 yrs old. We were looking at jewelry and the display window was higher than she could see. so my friend (tried to) lift her daughter up to the window.....she grunted as she lifted only for a second and dropped her. (granted my friend does not work out but you would think the weight of her daughter is something shes use to)
i had no idea how much this little girl weighed, so i put my hands on her waist and my friend was like "shes pretty heavy".....i lifted her up and she almost flew out of my hands she was so light, i held her there while she looked for a minute and we moved on.
i do both free weights and gym machines at my gym, im not really sure about the weight difference. i cant remember, never really paid attention.

 

[UFC rocks]

thanks for the reply chiquita6683.

i guess the reason i was asking the frist question is becasue, i know that if someone only trains on machines and doesnt use free weights they are missing out big time. but does it apply the other way, if someone only uses free weight, (oh and bodyweight exercises) but doesnt use any machines are they missing out.

am i missing out by not haveing access to any machines?

 

[StxNas]

I think both free weights and machines have their places, but if I had to choose I would rather just have free weights than machines that limit my range of motion.

Even when I use machines at the gym I have a tendency to use the Free Motion equipment.

And as far as the big guy moving furniture...well, maybe it was just awkward for him. I have moved more times than I am old and I know carrying a couch or big screen TV up a flight of stairs is always a bitch, lol.

"Pivot! PIVOT!" <---I hope somebody gets that...

 

[UFC rocks]

"Pivot! PIVOT!" <---I hope somebody gets that...

thanks for the reply, and i get it, its from friends where ross is takeing the couch up the stairs. that show was so funny.

 

[Yanick]

Just go and find out for yourself

The angles, ROMS etc might be slightly different than what you are used to with free weights (where you have your own groove) so a case might be made that the first workout or two you will not be pushing as much weight as you might think, but those issues should resolve quickly once your nervous and musculoskeletal systems start adapting to a different stimulus.

If you are stronger than your friend by a good margin with free weights you'll likely still move more weight than him on a machine.

 

[eddieod]

machines are nothing compared to the free weights youll have no problem lifting them infact it will seem easy. as far as moving furniture goes tis all about technieque or however you f**ckin spell it. once you get used to something it gets easier doesnt it

 

[NFOMan]

I dunno if this helps...

I've been working the machines for over a year now, and I find that I'm maxing them out. I don't regret the muscle mass that they've helped me with, but the BIG jocks say that free weights are the way to go.

So, my strategy is to push the sh*t out of the machines until they are not contributing, then switch over to the free weights.

That's my direction. Good luck with yours. How would you guys advise this question?

 

[clayu86]

hi guys, as some off you may know by now, i workout at home and can only do free weight exercises. i know that if you use mainly machines and then try free weights you will not be able to do as much weight, because you will be using more stabilizing muscles. my friend goes to the gym and mainly uses the machines, but sometime he trains with me at my house and we use free weights, i can do a fair bit more than him in petty much every exercise. he has now asked me to come to the gym with him to see how much i can do on some of the machines where you place the pin in it.

because i have never used the machines before will i not be as good on them as i am on the free weights, or will the same rule apply for me and i will be able to do more weight with the machine because there is no balanceing work involed?

my second question is kind off related to the first one^ in order to lift some thing would you need to train the muscles being used in that lift, or train for the movement. what i mean is, i think it was on this site, (not sure) were someone was saying he works for a place that moves around furniture and his mate who goes to the gym and is really big and strong in most lifts was helping him out. but his mate was finding it harder than him and a few people replyed saying that he wasnt used to the movements and thats why he found it harder. they said that moving a couch or coffee table isnt like any one particular lift he would do in the gym, and he wasnt used to the movement.

but because all his muscles are stronger, includeing the ones being used in moving the furniture should he still find it easy. i just find it hard to imagine a big guy who is strong in most lifts in the gym finding moveing furniture differcult. but thats why i am asking the question here, you guys are the experts not me.

so does lifting thing depend on getting used to the movement or the muscles being used?

i now that my questions are queit long so thank you to anyone who replys.

more than likely you will be able to lift more on the machines because free weights allow you to develop more in depth muscle and better stabilization that machines cannot do...the majority of your lifting I would recommend on free weights. Machines were intended for those that dont want a spotter.

 

[UFC rocks]

hey thanks for the replys everone. i think that the mechanical aspect of the machines helps out alot. because with my bench it has these fly attachments, which i can place onto the bench, and well you slide the weights on and grap the handles and fly inwards, but there is no balanceing work involed.

when i first got my bench about a year ago i used to use them, but as i learnt more about weight training i learnt that free weights are the best so i stop using them. any way a few days ago i thought i would try them just to see how much i could lift. i could do 40kg, (88lbs) on each side for 8 reps, and well with free weight i can only do 15kg, (33lbs) in each hands for about 10 reps. so that tells me that the mechanical aspect helps out a lot and allows you to do much more weight than free weights, i then really realized how free weights are much better and how machines IMO are a wast of time.

i mean come on, 40kg, (88lbs) in each hand for flys thats 80kg, (176lbs) in total, i cant even bench that much so how the hell would i be able to fly it. i can only fly 15kg, (33lbs) with free weight, thats a differnce of 25kg, (55lbs) compared to the machines. thats how much the machines help you and fool you into thinking you are doing more that you really can.

 

[VILBAUGH]

I cant comprehend why anyone needs a montrous contraption of cables plates, pads and pins costing thousands of dollars just to do a fucking tricep extension.
maybe for rehab, maybe.
To me machines are money, they are a raquet in this heavily polluted world of commercialized fitness today.

 

[UFC rocks]

hi guys i am sending this post from pakistan.

i went to a gym here with one of my uncles and its the first time i have ever been to a gym because i work out at home. you know the machine were you can do cable cross overs on, for the chest, well basicly i did somes curls on that machine and could do all the weights on it no problem and that was after a few sets of barbell and dumbbell curls. and could also do all the weight on the sames machine for pushdowns with the rope, that was a little bit harder so i had to do it first thing, but still i made it. i then try one of the machines where you sit down and do a chest press and i was about 2-3 plates from the full stack of weights.

i have seen some of your pictures and stats and well they are much better than mine, so i was woundering most of you guys must be able to do nearly all the weight on the machines

 

[Built]

Machines are never superior to free weights.

Stick with free for your heavy work. If you feel you MUST get a pump, well, rep it out on a machine at the end of your workout for the high-rep stuff. Keep the low rep mass building movements basic, free and compound.

My .02

 

[Built]

I've been working the machines for over a year now, and I find that I'm maxing them out. I don't regret the muscle mass that they've helped me with, but the BIG jocks say that free weights are the way to go.

So, my strategy is to push the sh*t out of the machines until they are not contributing, then switch over to the free weights.

That's my direction. Good luck with yours. How would you guys advise this question?

Bad idea.

You're going to build the target muscles without their accompanying stabilizers until you max out the machine.

Then you're going to try to lift free weights with muscles that have nothing to stabilize them! On top of that, you're moving through the machine's ROM - not your own! Paul Chek coined a term for this: pattern overload. Look it up.

I start all newbies on only free weights. Low rep sets, so they don't pattern incorrect movement patterns by going high-rep before they know how to use proper form. As much standing as possible, so core is involved.

And no Smith. Never.

 

[Gazhole]

Bad idea.

You're going to build the target muscles without their accompanying stabilizers until you max out the machine.

Then you're going to try to lift free weights with muscles that have nothing to stabilize them! On top of that, you're moving through the machine's ROM - not your own! Paul Chek coined a term for this: pattern overload. Look it up.

I start all newbies on only free weights. Low rep sets, so they don't pattern incorrect movement patterns by going high-rep before they know how to use proper form. As much standing as possible, so core is involved.

And no Smith. Never.

This part is very true and almost always leads to injury.

People look at the weights they can do on say...a shoulder press, translate that over into dumbell or barbell shoulder press at exactly the same weight, and hell...you just can't do that.

Yesterday i did 2x30rep Triceps Press at 80KG (over my bodyweight). The non-machine equivalent of that is Dips. You think i can do 30 reps on dips? Hell no. Try half that.

This is why machines and isolation movements should be used SPARINGLY. They're easier so give a false picture of your actual strength, dont allow for stabilizing muscles, result in pattern overload, and dont allow you do get any sort of intensity going so you compensate with more volume, leading to even more pattern overload.

Its not worth it.

 

[UFC rocks]

Gazhole is dead right, and the example you used about the triceps press and dips is like my one about my fly attacments for my bench, the machine make you think you can do a lot more than you really can and fool you.

i have this friends you always used to talk about how he could bench 130kg (286lbs) and well he was quiet a little guy and used to find it very hard to belive and was very impressed. any way one day he came round my house and i was working out. i was benching 70kg (154lbs) for about 10 reps, and he said give me a go and said he could do about 30 reps with it. he tryed it and got 7 reps and we both couldnt understand why, thats when he told me that he could bench press 130kg (286lbs) one one of the machines were to put the pin in it, when i always thought he meant free weights.

point being FREE WEIGHTS should always come first, machines are good just dont use them all the time.

 

[Gazhole]

I would have laughed hard at that guy, haha.

Its like the people who say they can squat 200KG (400+ lbs) and then you see them in the gym, doing 1/4 ROM on the SMITH machine.

How dissapointing.

Freeweights are where you make progress, like you said - should come first every time. Machines have their place and arent 100% useless, but should always have a small part of your workout time.

They're really just for a bit of fun and variation.

 

[Travis Bell]

machines are evil things created for weak people!

I'm kidding of course, the machines are great the isolation in the bbing mind, but do have their own host of problems. Free weights are superior imo