Help please (My plan, muscle soreness, glutamine)

[NickB]

Howdy ya'll. I have several questions :

First off, im 16, 5'9, 180 pounds. 23.5% body fat. Im trying to lose the fat, while at the same time toning muscles. After the first month, i should be Ok to start using heavier weights.

I went down to the local max muscle store and the guy got me started on protein/glutamine, because im only 16, they wanted to keep it as natural as possible.

The plan for the first 3 weeks they put me on is low weight, high reps:

day 1 - superset bis/tris, 3 set, 20 reps.
day 2 - superset legs , 3 set, 20 rep
day 3 - superset back/chest, 3 set, 20 rep
day 4 - superset shoulders , 3 set, 20 rep


Abs, every other day.
Cardio - 20 min/day
Stretching - 10-20 minutes

Now, i was wondering what the best way to split that up would be.

Day 1
Break (no weight, just cardio)
Day 2
Break(no weight, just cardio)
Day 3
break(no weight, just cardio)

etc, etc, etc

Or should i do it in that order, rest 3 days (except for cardio), then start over.

I want to burn fat and get in the shape the best way possible. Should i re-evaluate this plan? Maybe change the muscle groups? Supersets are superb for burning fat, so i would like to keep them, if possible.


Question 2:
Is it OK to start again if my muscles are still sore? My biceps are a little sore from a lot of heavy lifting i did 3 days ago. Would it be ok to start my plan anyways? Or should i wait 1 more day?

Question 3 :
When should i take the glutamine? I've read and heard different things.
1 says right before bed, 1 right after workout, another says with all protein shakes. Not sure how much i should be taking.

I plan to work out in the morning, waking up at 7, so im just catching enough heat to sweat, but not fry me ;p


I appreciate any help / criticim :]
I am also willing to change the plan, as I have yet to start it.

Thank you in advance,
Nick

 

[J'Bo]

Originally posted by NickB
Howdy ya'll. I have several questions :

First off, im 16, 5'9, 180 pounds. 23.5% body fat. Im trying to lose the fat, while at the same time toning muscles. After the first month, i should be Ok to start using heavier weights.

I went down to the local max muscle store and the guy got me started on protein/glutamine, because im only 16, they wanted to keep it as natural as possible.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keeping it natural is a good idea, since you are so young it is important not to disrupt your natural growing process. Good idea to start training though.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The plan for the first 3 weeks they put me on is low weight, high reps:

day 1 - superset bis/tris, 3 set, 20 reps.
day 2 - superset legs , 3 set, 20 rep
day 3 - superset back/chest, 3 set, 20 rep
day 4 - superset shoulders , 3 set, 20 rep
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could you post what the supersets are (the exercises). This way it will be easier to evaluate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abs, every other day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why did he say to do abs every second day?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cardio - 20 min/day
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you clean your diet up and start training you will tend to lose weight. Doing cardio this much may cause you to be over training. If you over train you are doing more harm than good. Try to clean your diet up (post what you normally eat in a day) and the training alone will help you to rid of excess body fat (bf).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stretching - 10-20 minutes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Make sure you do your stretching, it is very important.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, i was wondering what the best way to split that up would be.


Day 1
Break (no weight, just cardio)
Day 2
Break(no weight, just cardio)
Day 3
break(no weight, just cardio)

etc, etc, etc
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It would be best to give your body a rest in between your lifting days.
For example:
Mon. bis/tris
Tue. rest
Wed. legs
Thur. rest
Fri. shoulders (i would not do your back/chest superset here because your legs were done last weight day)
Sat rest
Sun. back/chest
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or should i do it in that order, rest 3 days (except for cardio), then start over.

I want to burn fat and get in the shape the best way possible. Should i re-evaluate this plan? Maybe change the muscle groups? Supersets are superb for burning fat, so i would like to keep them, if possible.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try doing these supersets for a month and see how you are doing. Supersets with high reps are very tough on the muscles so you have to make sure you are getting the right nutrition to be able to repair your torn muscles. I do not believe you need to do cardio at this point, changing one aspect of your lifestyle at a time is best. You can always resort to cardio once all your reserves are tapped out. For now lets concentrate on lifting properly and feeding your muscles.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Question 2:
Is it OK to start again if my muscles are still sore? My biceps are a little sore from a lot of heavy lifting i did 3 days ago. Would it be ok to start my plan anyways? Or should i wait 1 more day?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You should not be that sore if you are eating properly, stretching and spacing your workouts well. Try this split and you should not be that sore when it comes time to lift again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Question 3 :
When should i take the glutamine? I've read and heard different things.
1 says right before bed, 1 right after workout, another says with all protein shakes. Not sure how much i should be taking.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take 5 grams of glutamine pre workout and 5 grams post workout.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I plan to work out in the morning, waking up at 7, so im just catching enough heat to sweat, but not fry me ;p


I appreciate any help / criticim :]
I am also willing to change the plan, as I have yet to start it.

Thank you in advance,
Nick

Hope you were able to find my notes in amoungst your original post. There are alot of people here that can help you out, so keep giving us the required info and we will get you on your way.
IM is a great place to learn about how to get your body in the best shape you possibly can.

 

[TriZZle305]

i think you should put the cardio inbetween the workout days... especally if you are tryin to play a sport or something... working out sore.. it depends on how sore you are.. if you just feel a little"tight" in the muscles you should be alright but if you're feeling a bit of man when stretching or reaching for something(performing normal everyday tasks) then maybe you need some more rest and eat a tuna/chicken sandwhich or somehing(protein)

 

[NickB]

I found your notes, just fine, thank you :]

Here are my exact workouts (now that i look at my notes, i have the days wrong):

And i cant find my notes.

Day 1

Superset 1 : Bench press, back extension
Superset 2 : Butterfly, Lat pull-down
Superset 3 : Crossover fly, underhand lat pull-down

Day 2
Superset 1 : Front kick/ heel kick
Superset 2 :Leg extension/ leg curl
Superset 3 : Toe raise / leg press

Day 3
Superset 1 : Standing curl/ french curl
Superset 2 : Isolation curl / kickback
Superset 3: Preacher curl / tricep extension

Im doing this from memory, but i dont think its correct. I lost the paper (great way to start. At least i found out now instead of when i went to start)

Can someone help me put together going supserts please?

Im so sorry, i sound like a completel newbie...

 

[NickB]

It seems like day 1 is shoulders, day 2 is legs, day 3 is arms, so day 4 is back... which i dont remember what i should do ;p

 

[Destram]

One suggestion i would make is to try to get some bigger compound lifts in your workouts.

 

[ZONE]

Day 1 looks like Chest and back.... I don't see shoulders at all

As destram said:

"One suggestion i would make is to try to get some bigger compound lifts in your workouts."


Not sure what your plans are but go read this:


http://beginners.cyberpump.com/

a lot of good info....

 

[LAM]

I agree with the above statements...start out w/ the basics, bench db or bb, military to front - bb or db, pull-ups and rows - db or bb, squats and leg presses, stiff legged dead lifts etc..

performing supersets will not get you to your goals any faster.

 

[NickB]

Supersets with the lighter weight are meant to help me burn fat faster.

 

[LAM]

who told you that ?

 

[NickB]

The really fit guy at the Max Muscle store ;p

 

[LAM]

That information is erroneous...

 

[NickB]

Well, then what should i do? Im not looking to bulk, im looking to burn fat, while toning the muscles.

 

[NickB]

My goals are to lose weight, number one, while toning muscles, number two. Which is why im doing cardio too.

If i were to do heavy lifts, that would bulk me up, sure, but i would not lose weight, i would gain both muscle and fat, which i would then have to lose by doing cardio/light lifting.

Im doing the lightlifting now, so i can burn the fat, get toned, THEN , in about a month, i will move onto heavy lifting, gain muscle weight, then revert back to fat burning for it to show through.

 

[Mudge]

Muscle burns calories to maintain itself, so there isn't really anything wrong with normal lifting now.

 

[TriZZle305]

burning fat and toning muslcles are pretty much the same thing... when u burn fat your muslces look more toned because there is no fat over them.. so lifting weights WILL burn fat because you are using more muslces and more muscles means the more energy you need and burn (calories and fat and sugar)..... lighter and more isnt going to do you any better than heavy and less youre just getting endurance out of it... IMO the best way to lose fat using weights is to use "bigger compound workouts" like destram and zone said (squats, deadlift, benchpress, etc..) this way you are using several muscles all at once

 

[sandwich]

at your age, doin basic movements..: press, curls..ect.....are what ya should only be doin. 2 sets is lots and 12 or so reps.....dont go crazy with the weight too....overstraining at 16 imo is not good. also, diet is how you lose weight. but again, 16....i wouldnt go extreme with either. ya gotta give yourself a few more years to grow.

 

[TriZZle305]

i disagree that you should limit yourself to "simple" movements.. you should do everything as long as you know what youre doing and if youre unsure there are plenty of experienced guyz/gurlz at the gym who are willing to help... if u do not want to appear bulky you could probly be fine without working out at all and just doing cardio if toned is what you are looking for...

 

[sandwich]

well, that can be generalized to a certian point. at 16...he dosent need to go do every movement there is. to initaily grow..it dosent take much..so basic movements is all ya need..but....as long as he takes it slow and light for now..he'll be ok. ya gotta be smart when giving advice to someone in their mid teens.

 

[TriZZle305]

lol well im in my midteens and a lot of us in that age range are doing fine... as long as you know what youre doing i see no reason to limit yourself... as for doing every movement there is... why not... as long as hes not doin more than he can handle and he has proper form there shouldnt be a problem... but if doing simple movements does us so well then adding in more complex movements will hav us skyrocket

 

[Destram]

Imo, most isolation exercises should only be used after you have acheived a low bf% and have lagging parts that need to be brought up and specifically targeted.

 

[Mudge]

Another vote for basic, freeweight movements. I am not against "finishing" with something else, but the basis of my routine is all "mass builder" movements.

 

[LAM]

Just like any other sport the "basics" should be mastered first...and they are compound exercises

 

[J'Bo]

I completely agree with sandwich, you need to stay light and be careful. I definately think that doing cardio everyday and weights 4 times a week is way too much.

TriZZle305: Training hard at a young age like you and NickB can be hard on your joints. You may not feel the side effects of overtraining until you are older, but believe me i know of some guys that are feeling it from training too hard, too young.

Sandwich sounds like he knws what he is talking about so i would post your diet and let him help you out.

Toning your muscles and losing fat will happen just from light training, as i said before overtraining will do more harm then good. YOU DONT NEED TO DO CARDIO TO LOSE WEIGHT. I garantee if you make small changes to your lifestyle you will see results you like.

Here is a basic plan you can follow.

Mon: Legs
Squats/Leg extensions 3 sets of 12-15reps
Leg Press/Leg Curls 3 sets of 12-15 reps
Standing Calf Raises 3 sets of 12-15 reps

Wed: Bis/Tris
Overhead Extensions/Ez-Bar Curls 3 sets 12-15 reps
Hammer Curls/Rope Pulldowns 3 sets of 12-15 reps

Fri: Shoulders
Tri-set (overhead dumbell press, lateral raises, bent over rows)
3 sets of 8-10 reps
Shoulder Shrugs 3 sets of 10-12 reps

Sat: Back/Chest (or switch to Sun if too sore from shoulders)
Barbell bench press/Latpulldowns 3 sets of 12-15 reps
Seated rows/Incline flyes 3 sets of 12-15 reps

This is a pretty basic w/o that should be demonstrated to you by someone who works at your gym. They can show you how to do these exercises properly, having good form is very important.

Post what you eat in a normal day and we can see if your getting enough nutrition. Are you eating your veggies and getting enough protein?

 

[TriZZle305]

i didnt mean training extra hard necessarily but i meant that he didnt have to limit himself to just basic stuff like benchpress and squat... why not throw in other exercises to enhance all the "basics" like some tricep movements delt movements etc... after a while doing just basic movements you wont gain anymore until you strengthin a stabilizer or another "helper muscle"

 

[J'Bo]

Well with this routine he isnt limited.
What do you guys think of this routine as a starting block?

Need that meal outline NickB.

 

[NickB]

Hi J'bo :]

This is my basic diet. I do eat veggies (green beans, spinach, brocoli, celery) salad, turky, wheatbread (with the tuna sometimes), eggs.... i mix it up but keep my protein high, carbs low.

6am - Wakeup - protein shake + fruit
9 am -Mid-Morning - breakfast (1 egg, 1 eggwhite, turkey slices)
12pm - lunch - chicken, tuna, or fish
3pm -mid-day - protein shake + some almonds (for efa)
6pm -dinner - Chicken, tuna or fish
9pm - After workout - protein 5mg glutamine to aid in muscle recovery + several almonds (for efa)


Sundays i have more carbs than any other day, as a reward But i still keep it low. all other days i try to keep as low as possible.

 

[LAM]

do yourself a favor join up at fitday.com and start counting your calories...you should be able to lose some bf with out to much trouble by making some simple changes in your diet w/o really cutting your cals...

 

[NickB]

i watch my cals and carbs, im getting enough to stay healthy, but little neough to lose weight with ym exercise.

Thanks for that link, i signed up :]

 

[J'Bo]

Yes fitday is a good website to keep track of your diet intake.
Your diet is good but is definately lacking in substance. You need to eat more carbs, healthy ones that will give you energy to train more. Carbs will no cause you to gain weight. Healthy carbs that you should be eating with at least 2 of yyour meals are: 1 cup of rice, lots of veggies, whole wheat pasta (sometimes), sweet potatos, and oatmeal. You really need to add at least 1 tablespoon of either flax seed oil or Udo's oil for your EFA's. Almonds are not good enough for the amount of efa's your body needs.

Your diet should look more like this:
meal one: protein source such as 6 egg whites and 2 yolks plus 1/2 cup oatmeal
meal two: protein shake plus 1 tablespoon of efa's and a piece of fruit
meal three: protein source, plus a carb as i mentioned above, plus veggies
meal four: protein shake or protein source plus efa
meal five: same as three
meal six: protein source plus efa

I really dont know how you are living on no carbs other than veggies. It is not a healthy diet and one that you wont lose weight on. You need to consume more food in order to keep your metabolism moving faster. Being only 16 you really dont want to diet and be too low on the bf scale. So try adding some carbs and efa's and you should do just great.

Just to let you know that even if you arent consuming carbs, when your body needs carbs it will convert a protein into a carb. It is a very expensive way to get the proper nutrition, that isnt that effective.

Adjust your diet and maybe start a journal in the diary section so we can watch your changes and look at your daily training and food counts. Take a look around at others diarys and see what they write down, so you can view a journal that will suit you best.