Heterosexuality, BiSexuality and Homosexuality

[greekblondechic]

Hey guys.. I speak Greek, but not ancient Greek.. Sorry...

Bandaid is right tho, you cant always literally translate between two languages, I find myself having this problem all the time when I try to explain a Greek phrase to my American friends or vice versa. Regardless, Ancient Greek is exactly as stated..Ancient.. nobody speaks it anymore, people just study it, so that makes defining the meanings even harder

Furthermore..as a communication student let me add that "meanings are in people" this means that words themselves do not mean anything until people attach meaning to them because they are simply symbols or representations of, you dont know DOG means dog unless somebody tells you, because there is nothing inherent about the three letter word which means dog, it is simply the commonly attached meaning.. Therefore, the word Dog can just as easily have another meaning
Just something to think about thats all...

 

[Rocco32]

My wife knows greek

 

[Mudge]

No no, thats just woman talk, thats all.

Do the dishes is not Greek!

 

[Rocco32]

LOL, funny man!

If I choose not to understand, it's greek to me!

 

[Mudge]

I dont know if Russian uses the full Greek alphabet, but Russian alpha is Greek based and 33 friggin characters.

 

[kbm8795]

Originally posted by greekblondechic
Hey guys.. I speak Greek, but not ancient Greek.. Sorry...

Bandaid is right tho, you cant always literally translate between two languages, I find myself having this problem all the time when I try to explain a Greek phrase to my American friends or vice versa. Regardless, Ancient Greek is exactly as stated..Ancient.. nobody speaks it anymore, people just study it, so that makes defining the meanings even harder

Furthermore..as a communication student let me add that "meanings are in people" this means that words themselves do not mean anything until people attach meaning to them because they are simply symbols or representations of, you dont know DOG means dog unless somebody tells you, because there is nothing inherent about the three letter word which means dog, it is simply the commonly attached meaning.. Therefore, the word Dog can just as easily have another meaning
Just something to think about thats all...

That is a very interesting post, greek....it made me think about the ways in which animals sounds are heard and reproduced in different cultures. For example, when we hear a dog bark, we translate that sound differently and reproduce it in a variation of how, say, a Chinese person would reproduce the same bark.

 

[Mudge]

I used to think about that, an interesting point.

 

[firestorm]

All I know about animal sounds...and this is a TRUE story is last night at work I walked outside to get some air. I hear some birds whistling so I decided to speak to them in their native tounge with some whistles back at them. Next thing ya know, one comes swooping down out of the trees and buzzed right by my head. I suppose I must have called him something pretty damn bad in bird talk. (notice no hahahahas after that post??) True story.

 

[kbm8795]

Well damn, Firestorm...you were probably imitating a mating call and the bird was swoopin' on you for invading his territory!

Of course, you could have been answering the mating call too.....hehehehehe...

I'll have to dig around later tonight and see if I can find that web site...there's one for kids with a few animal sounds and how they are heard in a few different languages...

ahh...here's one of those sites...I should test it to see how it works..

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/ballc/animals/animals.html

 

[firestorm]

Originally posted by kbm8795
Well damn, Firestorm...you were probably imitating a mating call and the bird was swoopin' on you for invading his territory!

Of course, you could have been answering the mating call too.....hehehehehe...

Ironically I thought of that!! pretty funny.
*******************

I'll have to dig around later tonight and see if I can find that web site...there's one for kids with a few animal sounds and how they are heard in a few different languages...

ahh...here's one of those sites...I should test it to see how it works..

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/ballc/animals/animals.html

Cool I'll check it out. not for kids only ya know I'd be out side trying them.

 

[kbm8795]

That one kinda sux....here's a better one...well, more interactive for our forum level...hehehe...

http://www.flat33.com/bzzzpeek/html/bzzzpeek.html

This took a couple of minutes for me to load, but I'm on a dialup...it's pretty cool, actually - just click on an animal and it will give you sounds in different languages.

 

[firestorm]

Thanks buddy!!!!
I can't wait to play

 

[heeholler]

Cool!

 

[firestorm]

Originally posted by kbm8795
That one kinda sux....here's a better one...well, more interactive for our forum level...hehehe...

http://www.flat33.com/bzzzpeek/html/bzzzpeek.html

This took a couple of minutes for me to load, but I'm on a dialup...it's pretty cool, actually - just click on an animal and it will give you sounds in different languages.

Oh man I thought there would be real animal sounds. There are people doing the sounds. booo

 

[kbm8795]

oops..sorry about that...it's supposed to be people making animal sounds...using different languages! hahahaha...

The idea is that the same kind of animal will make the same sound in different cultures, but people who speak different languages process the sound and reproduce it differently.

Sorry...I shoulda figured you were looking for some more mating calls to mimic....we'll have to start calling you "king of the New Jersey Jungle."

 

[rburton]

Even though I agree with the Christian/Biblical view about homosexuality, many individuals do not consider that homosexuality is a genetic abberation, which means that with exceptions, it is a personal choice. That is, according to evolutionary theory, a species survives because of its ability to adapt to a given environment. Unless a genetic abberation (i.e., a genetic mutation), how is it that homosexuality exists, since homosexuals can not reproduce naturally (not withstanding contemporary medical science, which has existed for only the past 30-40 years)?

 

[bandaidwoman]

Originally posted by rburton
Even though I agree with the Christian/Biblical view about homosexuality, many individuals do not consider that homosexuality is a genetic abberation, which means that with exceptions, it is a personal choice. That is, according to evolutionary theory, a species survives because of its ability to adapt to a given environment. Unless a genetic abberation (i.e., a genetic mutation), how is it that homosexuality exists, since homosexuals can not reproduce naturally (not withstanding contemporary medical science, which has existed for only the past 30-40 years)?

Although some homosexuality may be a choice most are not. Most physicians ( who are privey to such personal histories ) will tell you most homosexuals knew they were homosexual at a very young age, many prepubescently.

With that said, is there a genetic predispostion or some other physical factor that influences homosexuality?

To isolate a gene for homosexuality is probably as fallacious as isolating a gene for intelligence, there probably is not one singular gene that affects such complex biological/social behavior.

However, nature has provided us with a wonderful natural experiment called congenital adrenal hyperplasia where these women (depending on the study, have almost 60% homosexuality rate.) These women produce high testosterone while in the womb due to a enzyme defect in their adrenal glands and sometimes long after birth if not detected in time. Usually it is easily corrected with medicines..




http://www.boskydell.com/political/outlooks.htm
http://health.ftmaustralia.org/library/96/1200.pdf

general lecture in reproductive medicine on
CAH http://home.epix.net/~tcannon1/Physioweek9.htm

Thus, it shows that the hormonal environment of the fetus may affect the sexual identity of a person. We don't have such a natural experiment in men with the exception of something called complete androgen insensitivity syndrome where these are genetic males born with completely perfect external female genitalia and breast and develop into attractive females who can't reproduce of course. Many go on to marry men. (technically they are gay?...genetic males having sexuall relationships with males.) However, it really isn't fair because their male hormones don't work at all (because they lack all testosterone receptors).


__________________

 

[TheGreatSatan]

Originally posted by Pepper
This post...I have to say that I 100% disagree with it. Scripture was inspired by God. He speaks through the scriptures.

Sorry, I have to disagree too. They actually found written text by Jesus, but the church won't put it in the bible because it is different than what is currently written.

 

[vegepygmy]

Originally posted by bandaidwoman
Very informative vege. But once again, depending on what erudite scholars, biblical anthropolgists etc. you ask, you get a different answer...so we get back to the same circle of reasoning that all this may just be an overinterpretation.

http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/sexorient/hom_bibh.htm

I have followed the link you provided to the world policy website. It seems to be primarily based on the writings of Boswell, of which numerous critiques exists. I think it would be very safe to say that many Jewish scholars would strongly disagree with the website???s translation and interpretation of the books of law.

 

[vegepygmy]

Originally posted by bandaidwoman
True, I probably should have clarified both OT and NT, since I lump them together as both were mainly translated in the 4th century by the singular work of one man ST. Jerome (although he did not translate it to english) which came later. My main point is, there is alot of room for mistranslation in the OT just translating it from the extra step from Hebrew, to Greek, then the vulgar languages and latin (due to the efforts of one man) , in the New Testament, the concern is also that the written language (greek) was a far cry from the oral tradition (Arameic) of Jesus and his followers. This translation from a very different oral tradition to a another written language can only be wrought with error. I'm no greek, arameic, latin, expert but as someone whos had to learn six languages (mandarin, hindi, malay, foukien etc.) before immigrating here to America, I can tell you there are words and phrases that are totally untranslatable between many Asian and Romance languages.

The question is not a general one about whether mistakes can occur in the act of translation. It is specific. Did mistakes in the translation occur in the old and new testament and if so what are they? Manuscripts of the old & new testaments in their original languages still exist. Comparative reference can be made to them. The weight of the evidence would suggest that there has been no mistranslation of 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (KJV).

 

[vegepygmy]

Originally posted by John H.
Hi Vegepygmy. I feel that God (Whoever you or anyone else perceive Him to be) as the Creator of Man would certainly KNOW Man and Man's strengths and weaknesses and desires - especially with regard to the control of others and desire of power over others and Man's ablity - or even inability - to tell the truth. If I were God I can tell you I WOULD NEVER trust Man to speak FOR me. You can say that is my opinion but given the past practices of Man in general and to what extent Man will harm others I would think it common sense that God would NEVER allow someone else to do His talking for Him and that He WOULD SPEAK for Himself.

Hi John
You seem to be stating that you do not trust people and since you do not , you think it unlikely that God would trust people also. He would never allow any human to speak in his name. Therefore if God (if he existed) had something to say, he would have to personal say it to you and every person on earth. And since he has not, all the religions of the world are false. Resulting in there being no religious basis for criticism of homosexuality.

This seems to be a version of ???If I haven???t seen it or heard it, it does not exist???.

Also you speak things that exist in Nature and the Natural World and that THAT very existance means relative nothing - I TOTALLY DISAGREE. It certainly goes to its "NATURALNESS" as "religion" likes to say it is not. And that is just the "tip of the iceberg"....

The ???natural world??? is not a utopia. Incest, rape, slavery, and necrophilia occurs within nature. Should they serve as models for human behaviour?

 

[Mudge]

Yep, Kuso posted the article about a duck who raped the carcass of a fellow male duck for over an hour.

 

[bandaidwoman]

Originally posted by vegepygmy
. I think it would be very safe to say that many Jewish scholars would strongly disagree with the website???s translation and interpretation of the books of law.

Of course they do, they do it all the time, it's called the Talmudic tradition...the Talmud is hundreds of volumes of jewish scholars arguing about the intrepretaion of the books of law. Even those most erudite in the language of Hebrew can't come up with a general consensus for what all the Hebrew laws mean. In fact, it is this dissent of opinion that makes it so silly that they would be in any way threatened by a radical rabbi such as Jesus who came along and offered a different interpretation . Once again, do we see the Jewish community rallying against homosexuality like the Christian community? No. Perhaps it's because they understand what these laws in Leviticus, etc. mean to a greater extent than we do...afterall, Rabbinic , Talmudic tradition is to question and read these laws in their original language.

 

[bandaidwoman]

As for natural being good or bad, that is once again interpretation by humans. I bring the natural argument (as well as the above post on congenital adrenal hyperplasia) to show that this is not a choice that most homosexuals make. This is probably a behavior that has a biological basis. Part of the condemnation of homosexuals seems to be based on this "other half" of the equation.

Let's also remember that it is not "natural"for man to fly, drive a vehicle at 80 mph, etc. etc. We should all live like Mennonites.


Is it good to put faith in mankind as a recepticle of God's word? because we come back to which was the correct transmission of God's words and thoughts, the Old Testament, New Testament, or the Quran? This infallibility of "God's word" is no less for those who follow the Quran. Which half is right, the Judeao-Christian or Islamic?

 

[John H.]

Originally posted by vegepygmy
Hi John
You seem to be stating that you do not trust people and since you do not , you think it unlikely that God would trust people also. He would never allow any human to speak in his name. Therefore if God (if he existed) had something to say, he would have to personal say it to you and every person on earth. And since he has not, all the religions of the world are false. Resulting in there being no religious basis for criticism of homosexuality.

This seems to be a version of ???If I haven???t seen it or heard it, it does not exist???.

The ???natural world??? is not a utopia. Incest, rape, slavery, and necrophilia occurs within nature. Should they serve as models for human behaviour?

Hi Vegepygmy. I think I have damn good reason not to trust unless it is earned by others. I have lived long enough to learn what many people are capable of doing or not doing. If we can all agree that God made Man and that God is ALL knowing, powerful, etc. then we also must agree that God KNOWS Man and what Man is capable of doing or not doing. I can not see why God FOR ANY REASON would trust Man to speak FOR Him at any time. Certainly I would never allow someone to speak FOR me on matters I would feel are of ANY importance. I WOULD DO MY OWN TALKING. Religions ARE Man-made - each one. There are thousands of religions each with their own beliefs. All are, in an effort to come up with some kind of "answer" to the most pressing and important questions of life and living, suspect. When you involve Man in that with regard to people's NEED to KNOW many are very suspect and unscrupulous. To see the truthfulness in my statements STUDY the history of religions completely, accurately, honestly. And the people associated with them. I wish I did not have to say this but what I have said IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Sure there are SOME people involved in religion that are good and fine but the sum total of them is NOT GOOD. For a "religion" to say that Homosexuality is wrong and for that "religion" to follow "God" and IF God NEVER SAID - and He NEVER DID EVER - then that religion is postulizing and diseminating information that is FALSE. "Religion" is claiming that Homosexuality is wrong and unnatural when IN FACT it exists in Nature and the Natural World and always has. If GOD NEVER SAID ONE WORD and CHRIST NEVER SAID ONE WORD - and THEY NEVER DID - then you MUST ask yourself WHY then would "religion" "say" it is wrong? WHERE is the BASIS for that conclusion? I can tell you that in my research that religions have always fought with each other - to the death of its members - over who's religion was the "right" "religion" and who's was not. There were religious "holy wars". Even today religions fight with each other - for money, position and power over others. In order to replenish the "supply of Men" to fight these wars they NEED Men to "procreate" other additional people - thus the ORIGIN of the prohibition of Homosexuality. That prohibition HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TRUTHFULNESS AND RIGHTNESS of that VARIATION of Sexuality. Take Care, John H.

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by bandaidwoman
Let's also remember that it is not "natural"for man to fly, drive a vehicle at 80 mph, etc. etc. We should all live like Mennonites.

It would certainly remove a great deal of distractions from life. Technology, both friend and foe.

 

[firestorm]

Originally posted by kbm8795
oops..sorry about that...it's supposed to be people making animal sounds...using different languages! hahahaha...

The idea is that the same kind of animal will make the same sound in different cultures, but people who speak different languages process the sound and reproduce it differently.

Sorry...I shoulda figured you were looking for some more mating calls to mimic....we'll have to start calling you "king of the New Jersey Jungle."

hahahaha yea you got it. I was looking for pointers on how to talk to that damn bird out front!!!

 

[firestorm]

Originally posted by John H.
Hi Vegepygmy. I think I have damn good reason not to trust unless it is earned by others. I have lived long enough to learn what many people are capable of doing or not doing. If we can all agree that God made Man and that God is ALL knowing, powerful, etc. then we also must agree that God KNOWS Man and what Man is capable of doing or not doing. I can not see why God FOR ANY REASON would trust Man to speak FOR Him at any time. Certainly I would never allow someone to speak FOR me on matters I would feel are of ANY importance. I WOULD DO MY OWN TALKING. Religions ARE Man-made - each one. There are thousands of religions each with their own beliefs. All are, in an effort to come up with some kind of "answer" to the most pressing and important questions of life and living, suspect. When you involve Man in that with regard to people's NEED to KNOW many are very suspect and unscrupulous. To see the truthfulness in my statements STUDY the history of religions completely, accurately, honestly. And the people associated with them. I wish I did not have to say this but what I have said IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Sure there are SOME people involved in religion that are good and fine but the sum total of them is NOT GOOD. For a "religion" to say that Homosexuality is wrong and for that "religion" to follow "God" and IF God NEVER SAID - and He NEVER DID EVER - then that religion is postulizing and diseminating information that is FALSE. "Religion" is claiming that Homosexuality is wrong and unnatural when IN FACT it exists in Nature and the Natural World and always has. If GOD NEVER SAID ONE WORD and CHRIST NEVER SAID ONE WORD - and THEY NEVER DID - then you MUST ask yourself WHY then would "religion" "say" it is wrong? WHERE is the BASIS for that conclusion? I can tell you that in my research that religions have always fought with each other - to the death of its members - over who's religion was the "right" "religion" and who's was not. There were religious "holy wars". Even today religions fight with each other - for money, position and power over others. In order to replenish the "supply of Men" to fight these wars they NEED Men to "procreate" other additional people - thus the ORIGIN of the prohibition of Homosexuality. That prohibition HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TRUTHFULNESS AND RIGHTNESS of that VARIATION of Sexuality. Take Care, John H.

*********************************

Soo I think we can safely assumet John H is a homosexual. lol
Not laughing at you JohnH just laughing because we never saw you before and your 1st post is a podium standing Gay proclomation. I just found it amusing as a way to start on a bodybuilding board.

No matter, right or wrong, Gay or straight, I DO believe however that God loves everyone if that is of any consequence. I love everyone too until they piss me off. lol

 

[John H.]

Originally posted by vegepygmy
Hi John
You seem to be stating that you do not trust people and since you do not , you think it unlikely that God would trust people also. He would never allow any human to speak in his name. Therefore if God (if he existed) had something to say, he would have to personal say it to you and every person on earth. And since he has not, all the religions of the world are false. Resulting in there being no religious basis for criticism of homosexuality.

This seems to be a version of ???If I haven???t seen it or heard it, it does not exist???.

The ???natural world??? is not a utopia. Incest, rape, slavery, and necrophilia occurs within nature. Should they serve as models for human behaviour?

Hi Vegepygmy. I forgot to add to your last paragraph my reply regarding incest, slavery, etc. - we are speaking about Homosexuality and BiSexuality - the LOVING of another honestly people who AGREE and are able to agree with any Sexual acts that may occcur because of that LOVE of each other. Incest, rape, slavery, etc. have absolutely nothing to do with the topic. IF you want to include these things then you MUST also remember that HETEROSEXUAL people are also guilty of incest, rape, slavery, etc. So does that then mean that ALL people are bad and horrible - no - it means SOME are. I am speaking to the subject(s) of Heterosexuality, BiSexuality and Homosexuality as VARIATIONS of Sexuality in LOVING relationships by people who are of age and ability of consent and freely give that consent that SINCERELY CARE ABOUT EACH OTHER. A person's personal life and who they choose to live that with ARE THEIR BUSINESS ONLY and NOT that of you, me, or anyone else, religion, government, etc. It IS PRIVATE AND PERSONAL - PERIOD. If God NEVER said and Christ NEVER said ONE THING about any of these variations - AND THEY NEVER DID - then NO MAN has ANY RIGHT WHATSOEVER to become involved in anyone's personal relationship. See what I am saying? Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

Originally posted by firestorm
*********************************

Soo I think we can safely assumet John H is a homosexual. lol
Not laughing at you JohnH just laughing because we never saw you before and your 1st post is a podium standing Gay proclomation. I just found it amusing as a way to start on a bodybuilding board.

No matter, right or wrong, Gay or straight, I DO believe however that God loves everyone if that is of any consequence. I love everyone too until they piss me off. lol

Hi Firestorm. No I am not a Homosexual. I am Bisexual. Each VARIATION is that - a variation of Sexuality. A Gift from God. Very natural and right as is the color of a person's skin. As to this being my first post, I think I wrote on something else before (can't remember right now what) and then saw this on the Board and thought I'd speak to this subject. I look at all things and whatever I feel like responding to at that moment I let my thoughts be known and move on to other subjects too. There seemed to be a lot of attention on this subject here so I put my "two cents" into the ring.... I hope I have not pissed you off for any reason - that IS NEVER my intention.... TDGC, John H.