I finally did it!

[chris mason]

What result will this "focus" have that could not be obtained on an exercise like squats? How will this result occur (what is the mechanism)?

 

[P-funk]

I love squatting too much to ever give it up, barring some kind of serious injury or something...there's nothing quite like having all that weight on your back and being able to handle it like its nothing.

Samne here. Squats are my favorite.

I feel these more in my quads than any other leg exercise. Hacks and leg presses don't do it for me at all.

 

[gopro]

What result will this "focus" have that could not be obtained on an exercise like squats? How will this result occur (what is the mechanism)?

If you are not comfortable with squats, and/or are feeling the exercise in other areas besides the quads, which is the target muscle, you will not achieve as good a mind/muscle connection and will not get as much out of it. If you are feeling lower back pain, or are having trouble with the balance you will not achieve as much hypertrophy as you would with leg presses or hacks. If you find squats to be very natural then its different story...but not everybody does.

 

[gopro]

Samne here. Squats are my favorite.

I feel these more in my quads than any other leg exercise. Hacks and leg presses don't do it for me at all.

Thats YOU...and thats cool. For me, squats are more than a waste of my time.

 

[P-funk]

Thats YOU...and thats cool. For me, squats are more than a waste of my time.

I know, I wasn't disagreeing with you.

 

[gopro]

I know, I wasn't disagreeing with you.

I know...I was just saying for others that think they MUST squat, that its not necessarily true (although the should be given a fair shake before making any decisions on them).

 

[Flex]

Needless to say I am very sore today. It helps me remember how squats incorporate practically the entire body!

Glad to have you back on the darkside

 

[CowPimp]

Samne here. Squats are my favorite.

I feel these more in my quads than any other leg exercise. Hacks and leg presses don't do it for me at all.

Another squatter for life here. However, I don't really feel it in my quads relative to other exercises unless I squat olympic style. I like powerlifter form better, but the end result is that my gluts, hams, and lower back take a lot more of a beating than my quads.

One variation of the squat I have found to hit the quads better is the single leg squat. There are also other benefits to this exercise: disproportionate legs aren't an issue because your back leg rests on a bench; far less weight is required, so the strain on one's lumbar spine is drastically reduced; even more stabilizer muscle action is required to maintain good form.

 

[P-funk]

However, I don't really feel it in my quads relative to other exercises unless I squat olympic style.

I think you hit it on the head there Cow. I should say that I only squat olympic style, maybe that is why i feel it more in my quads and less in my erectors than others.

 

[DOMS]

How does an olympic squat differ from the "normal" sqaut?

 

[P-funk]

How does an olympic squat differ from the "normal" sqaut?

olympic squat the bar sits higher on your traps and you have a narrow stance and squat almost straight down. Where as a powerlifter squats typically with a widerstance, the bar resting low on the traps and sitting back a lot more.

 

[Mudge]

What result will this "focus" have that could not be obtained on an exercise like squats? How will this result occur (what is the mechanism)?

I liken it to using straps on my back work. I dont have to concentrate or pay attention to more muscles being taxed, when I only want to tax to the max a set group of muscles none of which being my forearms, which I can attend to at night. This is obviously a bit more of a BB mindset than PL, but if you can sit down and be 'lazy' doing those leg presses instead of doing a total body cardio workout, then its easier on the mind.

 

[Yanick]

olympic squat the bar sits higher on your traps and you have a narrow stance and squat almost straight down. Where as a powerlifter squats typically with a widerstance, the bar resting low on the traps and sitting back a lot more.

Yup. Olympic squats are what you see most bb'ers doing (high bar, narrow stance), and PL squats you see very rarely in gyms unless you go to a hardcore gym where ppl actually know what they are doing. I have been doing PL squats for months now and at my peak i squatted 405 for a single, however yesterday (it was the first workout in 2 weeks so that might be another factor) i squatted olympic style and hit 295 for 4. Due to the huge difference in the two squats i would say ppl should figure out ways to cycle both as i will do in the future. And yes when squatting like a PL you don't feel too much in your quads, whereas Oly squats your quads are getting hit very hard (front squats, rack position not that pussy bb'er shit, are also great for the quads).

 

[Arnold]

I fail to see how a "bodybuilder" would benefit from a PL squat, the goal of a PL squat is to get the weight up, using a lot of lower back and ass.

 

[P-funk]

I fail to see how a "bodybuilder" would benefit from a PL squat, the goal of a PL squat is to get the weight up, using a lot of lower back and ass.

I don't see it either

 

[chris mason]

"Olympic" style of squatting is done with the back very upright, a relatively narrow stance, and to full depth. Olympic lifters will squat in this fashion because it more closely mimics the squat portion of the clean and snatch than does a more typical powerlifting style squat.



GoPro, if one doesn't have this "mind/muscle" link you mention why is the workout any less benficial? Are the muscles not contracting? Do individual muscle cells have the ability to contract to varying degrees?

 

[Saturday Fever]

A bodybuilder has to have hamstrings, glutes and erectors.

 

[Mudge]

GoPro, if one doesn't have this "mind/muscle" link you mention why is the workout any less benficial? Are the muscles not contracting? Do individual muscle cells have the ability to contract to varying degrees?

IMO because one simply does not exert the same amount of concentration required for going 100%. I feel personally, that a lot of people are 90% or maybe 95% especially on balls to the wall leg and back work. When doing taxing movements it is easy for the mind to give up, if there is no mind to muscle "connection" there is no "in the zone."

If there is no "mind to muscle" connection, there is no being in touch with ones body.

 

[P-funk]

A bodybuilder has to have hamstrings, glutes and erectors.

true....

 

[Arnold]

A bodybuilder has to have hamstrings, glutes and erectors.

Yes, but a PL squat emphasizes the glutes and erectors, whereas an Olympic style squat is more balanced and incorporates glutes, quads and erectors more equally, which is ultimately a more effective way for a bodybuilder to train.

 

[gopro]

GoPro, if one doesn't have this "mind/muscle" link you mention why is the workout any less benficial? Are the muscles not contracting? Do individual muscle cells have the ability to contract to varying degrees?

If you do not believe in the power of the mind being able to affect all things that occur within the body I cannot even broach this subject with you. For many, while squatting, too many muscles are brought into play, spreading the work throughout the body. Some will squat more with their glutes than thighs, and some will use far too much back. Even the arms can come into play. This great reduces the effectiveness of the exercise from a physical and psychological standpoint.

 

[Saturday Fever]

Yes, but a PL squat emphasizes the glutes and erectors, whereas an Olympic style squat is more balanced and incorporates glutes, quads and erectors more equally, which is ultimately a more effective way for a bodybuilder to train.

Yeah, but if you can increase the amount of tension over the same amount of time, hypertrophy will be greater.

 

[chris mason]

If you do not believe in the power of the mind being able to affect all things that occur within the body I cannot even broach this subject with you. For many, while squatting, too many muscles are brought into play, spreading the work throughout the body. Some will squat more with their glutes than thighs, and some will use far too much back. Even the arms can come into play. This great reduces the effectiveness of the exercise from a physical and psychological standpoint.

This is your typical cop-out answer when you are asked to explain something with words other than "because".

I didn't mention anything about the power of the mind not having a profound effect. I asked YOU to explain yourself.

Please do so.

Ok, let me ask you a question. I will stick with squats because that is what this thread is about. Let's say you have someone who is more of a "back" squatter. In other words they use a lot of lower back to leverage up their heavy squats. Are they not using their thighs at this point? Have you ever considered why someone might be a "back" squatter? Maybe it is because their thighs are relatively weak. You will naturally apply just enough back to get the job done when lifting a heavy weight in the squat. This can occur when the thighs are already pushing for all they are worth (i.e. getting a VERY intense workout). Does this mean that the individual I am describing will not build his thighs with squats?

I will let you in on a little secret, I am a "back" squatter. Squats still beat the shit out of my thighs more than any other movement I have ever tried. When I have been forced to layoff of standard squats for extended periods my thighs suffer.

I am not saying that concentrating on the muscles you are targeting has no value, but I certainly think you and others are overrating it.

Now, I do see a value in using certain movements if you are a bodybuilder. Hack squats will certainly place less emphasis on the hips and glutes than standard squats (and more on the thighs). So, if a bodybuilder was heavy in the butt and light in the thighs using hack squats would be a smart move.

 

[Yanick]

A bodybuilder has to have hamstrings, glutes and erectors.

exactly

 

[Cold Iron]

I think the mind connection plays a role, who big? not sure
I've had my share of bad sets on the squat and a lot of the time I attribute this to losing the "connection". If I have bad form on a rep, a lot of the time it compromises the rest of my set. When I lose this "focus", it affects my form and I am expending part of my energy for the lift on trying to stabilize myself. If I'm in the zone, I can concentrate completely on the lift itself and devote 100% of my energy to lifting as much as possible.

The mind is WAY more powerful than we can even comprehend

and NO i have 0 scientific data to back that up

 

[CowPimp]

A bodybuilder has to have hamstrings, glutes and erectors.

Agreed. I think PL squats have a place in one's bodybuilding routine at some point in their career. As Yanick said, including both into your routine can be beneficial. Hell, do both at the same time. Use olympic style squats on quad day and PL squats on ham day.

 

[gopro]

This is your typical cop-out answer when you are asked to explain something with words other than "because".

I didn't mention anything about the power of the mind not having a profound effect. I asked YOU to explain yourself.

Please do so.

Ok, let me ask you a question. I will stick with squats because that is what this thread is about. Let's say you have someone who is more of a "back" squatter. In other words they use a lot of lower back to leverage up their heavy squats. Are they not using their thighs at this point? Have you ever considered why someone might be a "back" squatter? Maybe it is because their thighs are relatively weak. You will naturally apply just enough back to get the job done when lifting a heavy weight in the squat. This can occur when the thighs are already pushing for all they are worth (i.e. getting a VERY intense workout). Does this mean that the individual I am describing will not build his thighs with squats?

I will let you in on a little secret, I am a "back" squatter. Squats still beat the shit out of my thighs more than any other movement I have ever tried. When I have been forced to layoff of standard squats for extended periods my thighs suffer.

I am not saying that concentrating on the muscles you are targeting has no value, but I certainly think you and others are overrating it.

Now, I do see a value in using certain movements if you are a bodybuilder. Hack squats will certainly place less emphasis on the hips and glutes than standard squats (and more on the thighs). So, if a bodybuilder was heavy in the butt and light in the thighs using hack squats would be a smart move.

You amaze me in regards to how smart you think you are. Your words in the above post hold no more value than the words of my previous post. Is there somebody in your life that pats you on your back each day and says, "You are such a smart boy Chrissy!" I'm thinking there must be cause you could not be this arrogant on your own.

It is very very simple, so lets see if you can wrap your brain around this. Squats are a valuable exercise, however, they are more valuable for some than others. For you, they work well at building your quads...even though you admit to being a back squatter. By the way, did you ever stop and think that you might affect more hypertrophy specifically in your quads with exercises that take your back out of the movement?

Anyway, for me, and for others, squats are not so valuable for building quads, or at least are less valuable than other movements such as hacks or leg presses, which is the point of all of this. This can be for one or more reasons...

-squats do not feel comfortable in terms of performance and thus you will be more worried about trying to feel comfortable than focusing on lifting hard
-squats hurt negatively in areas thus causing further performance problems and loss of focus on lifting hard
-b/c of body structure, squats work the glutes or lower back harder than they do the quads...yes, the quads are working even during bent rows, but I wouldn't use bent rows to build my thighs

Now, from a bodybuilding standpoint, any or all of the above are a negative factor when trying to build the quads in this case. Moving as much weight as possible from point A to point B is not always the answer when it comes to hypertrophy. If you can squat 500 lbs, but that weight is being collectively moved by your glutes, lower back, hips and thighs...how much actual weight are the quads being called upon to lift. Again, some people can really keep other muscles involvement to a minimum when squatting...Tom Platz was amazing at forcing his quads to do the work when squatting...but some cannot, for whatever the reason.

I have squatted 500 lbs during a workout and I have hack squatted 500 lbs during a workout, and after the 500 lb squats my quads are slightly pumped, but my ass and lower back feel pretty trashed. After the 500 lb hack squats my quads are feeling twice their normal size and my lower back and glutes feel largely untouched. Hmmm, I wonder which of these exercises will be more valuable in terms of quad hypertrophy for me (or anyone else like me).

If you are an athlete you need to squat, but if you are a bodybuilder, you do not NECESSARILY need to squat.

 

[madden player]

Needless to say I am very sore today. It helps me remember how squats incorporate practically the entire body!

...I know that being sore or the 'pump' doesn't mean muscle growth but it sure feels good. Glad to hear you are squatting again. Good luck with that.

 

[chris mason]

I may be an idiot etc., but you STILL have not explained your position with anything other than your opinion. I am asking you to provide something more than your opinion. If you can't do that then just say it is your opinion.

In addition, I have not said you are incorrect, only asked you to explain yourself with something other than opinion.

 

[gopro]

I may be an idiot etc., but you STILL have not explained your position with anything other than your opinion. I am asking you to provide something more than your opinion. If you can't do that then just say it is your opinion.

In addition, I have not said you are incorrect, only asked you to explain yourself with something other than opinion.

Oh my lord Chris...the above post was not my opinion, but fact. It is not my opinion that the sun rises and sets each day, its a fact.

Do you accept anything that was not written in a textbook or scientific journal?

And you are not an idiot, but one stubborn muther frucker.